G5 SIC slots

[acaTerry]

What SIC is making $120,000?

Imacdog, I have several friends at SWA who as SICs bring home $140,000. I have enough recommendations from a lot people at various carriers that I'd have a fairly good chance if I needed them, but I'd rather not need them.

Trogges, don't be too amused with my attitude, it's prevalent with pretty much every surviving SIC at NJA. I just prefer to see a career at NJA improve rather than hop all over aviation anymore. Perhaps you should read my earlier post (and educate yourself) before you come in here with your mouth wide open and the personal attack.
And where do you get the $120,000 figure? There is no such figure for an SIC at NJA. And I do more than vacuum crumbs...in the 560 airframe we get to do the poopy bowl too because so few FBOs will do it anymore because they are afraid to spill it. The fact is we are far more than pilots at NJA.
Sorry about your being part of the 495, but it's aviation. I HAVE been in your shoes. It sucks, and that's especially why there has to be some payoff. Therein my friend is the point.
Sorry if I sound preachy, but you felt rather free to come at me with both guns blazing. I have been flying professionally since 1994, perhaps a little longer than you. You need to spend a little less time feeling sorry for yourself and see how the fight someone else is going on with will benefit you later. Would you want to come back to a NetJets with a 10 year SIC pay cap? And no upgrades? Why don't we just give up our health plan for you because we are still employed and you are not? Stop. Listen. Learn. The things that are going on at NJA will affect you when you return, hopefully soon.
Keep your head up. BTW if you're using the job search boards, I'd recommend willflyforfood.com over climbto350.com. Like I said, been in your shoes before.

 

[nordo_2]

Stagnation sucks Terry, but that's pretty universal no matter where you are.

Not every stagnated SIC position is frustrating. Examples, such as friends I have at Delta and SWA come to mind. I have a few friends at regionals that are captains content making the same amount of cash as an SIC at NJ, and not working half as hard. Some of us just have higher expectations for themselves. These are personal preferences. Hanging out at NJ as an SIC indefinitely, suites some folks just fine. The amount of deadwood at NJ is staggering for the bottom 10-15%. Absolutely no growth, or relief via a mandatory retirement age.

 

[acaTerry]

Not every stagnated SIC position is frustrating. Examples, such as friends I have at Delta and SWA come to mind. I have a few friends at regionals that are captains content making the same amount of cash as an SIC at NJ, and not working half as hard. Some of us just have higher expectations for themselves. These are personal preferences. Hanging out at NJ as an SIC indefinitely, suites some folks just fine. The amount of deadwood at NJ is staggering for the bottom 10-15%. Absolutely no growth, or relief via a mandatory retirement age.

I get what you're saying and you're right. The thing at NJA is that there is a cap at year 10 for SICs. Upgrades are like a pipe dream, and now we can't even use SIC bids to make a living. That's what everyone has the beef with. Seniority rules, yes. But something has to change next contract. I don't want to hear a single PIC say that the SIC payscale belongs on the backburner.

 

[jppt2000]

Yep. Pay cut for him, while denying a pay raise for an SIC. Win-win! (for the company)

Or maybe the downgrading PIC is exercising his seniority rights.
Moderating the NJA boards aren't keeping you busy?

 

[nordo_2]

Or maybe the downgrading PIC is exercising his seniority rights.
Moderating the NJA boards aren't keeping you busy?

Ya, that is the way it works.

 

[CA1900]

I'm not a moderator over there. And in light of recent events, I'm grateful for that!

As for the issue at hand, yes, that PIC is exercising his rightful seniority rights. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that action is not taking away an opportunity for an SIC who already has very few open to him.

 

[acaTerry]

I'm not a moderator over there. And in light of recent events, I'm grateful for that!

No kidding! Those guys deserve a paycheck for that nowadays. I never thought I'd see the days where FI seems more docile than our own site.

 

[nordo_2]

I'm not a moderator over there. And in light of recent events, I'm grateful for that!

As for the issue at hand, yes, that PIC is exercising his rightful seniority rights. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that action is not taking away an opportunity for an SIC who already has very few open to him.

Sarcasm on:

It’s seniority baby. You just gotta “suck it”, and “love it”….Or not…

Sarcasm off:

 

[Helmsalee]

BTW, Terry, the furloughed guys Cobra ran out some time ago. NJ is not helping us at all on medical. And also, even while we were on Cobra, we paid the full premium.
Helm

 

[BentOver]

No kidding! Those guys deserve a paycheck for that nowadays. I never thought I'd see the days where FI seems more docile than our own site.

We wouldn't know because some majority voted to keep us off.. wonder which majority that was? Probably the same one who now tries to apply censorship to the grown up board. And also tolod us we didn't know what we were talking about the last 2 years....

 

[BentOver]

But that doesn't mean that action is not taking away an opportunity for an SIC who already has very few open to him.

Nor does advocating extended days as being ok to pick up.. How did that one turn out a year later for M.L. and Co.? After all that has happened with extended days this year I'm all for PIC's doing what they choose, after all it is CONTRACTUAL.

Sarcasm off

 

[CA1900]

We wouldn't know because some majority voted to keep us off...

That decision came solely from the executive board. The volunteers had absolutely nothing to do with that decision, and it's one I vocally opposed, then and now.

 

[kman]

What SIC is making $120,000?

Sic's at Swa, Delta, FedEx, Ups, United, Alaskan and Hawaiian.

 

[jppt2000]

I'm not a moderator over there. And in light of recent events, I'm grateful for that!

As for the issue at hand, yes, that PIC is exercising his rightful seniority rights. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that action is not taking away an opportunity for an SIC who already has very few open to him.

Oh yes,
Thanks for correcting me, you're the union website administrator and volunteer coordinator!
Maybe you should get a stipend too!

 

[pilotyip]

Seniority rules.

What a terrible inconvenient truth

67 really isn't all that old these days. If I continue to take care of myself, and avoid any major mishaps, then I could have many years of enjoyment after 67. Or not. That's harder to predict than the market.

If this is true why all the screaming about "Get out of my seat?" in the name of age and safety?

 

[imacdog]

What a terrible inconvenient truth

Just not at USA Jet when they decide to retire the Falcons.

Let me help you back to where you belong:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27

 

[acaTerry]

I don't know a single line pilot (myself included) who voted to keep you guys off the web board. In fact, I don't even remember getting the chance to vote on it all (just like some of the side letters that keep trumping the contract but never informed us about). And I also think that you guys should not just keep Cobra, but get one better by keeping regular benefits just like a guy on LOA.
And what a nice way to inform you, on Thanksgiving, that you were getting furloughed, and start it at Christmas week....lowdown and dirty thing that was handled poorly too.
But remember that we are trying to make NJA a better place for when you get back. Many of us have also contributed to the 495 fund for Christmas (you're welcome Trogges), so don't think you're alone in this. You may mean nothing to the company, but to your brethren pilots at NJA you matter.

 

[rajflyboy]

no worries

I guys are more qualified than the rest

 

[CA1900]

Oh yes,
Thanks for correcting me, you're the union website administrator and volunteer coordinator!

Not a moderator, as I said. I have nothing to do with that function on the board anymore, and haven't for years. None of the moderators from a few years ago are still doing it.

 

[pilotyip]

Just not at USA Jet when they decide to retire the Falcons.

Let me help you back to where you belong:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27

What a terrible inconvenient truth What does this post about seniority have anything to do with flying a Falcon, other than they elect to do it based upon their seniority?

 

[Sammy]

Just curious, but if a PIC bids down to SIC on the G-Whiz fleet, wouldn't said individual be taking a pay cut?

If a pic bids down would that open a pic position in the vacated pic position?

 

[Pervis]

If a pic bids down would that open a pic position in the vacated pic position?

After the furloughs and massive "G" upgrades prior to integration, there are WAY to many PICs in all fleets. It would take far more bids like this to facilitate upgrades at this point.

 

[imacdog]

What a terrible inconvenient truth What does this post about seniority have anything to do with flying a Falcon, other than they elect to do it based upon their seniority?

I'm sorry, did you forget the terrible inconvenient truth that seniority didn't mean jack ******************** to USA Jet when they stopped flying the Falcons? The irony being, you have no place to talk about how seniority rules.

 

[pilotyip]

I'm sorry, did you forget the terrible inconvenient truth that seniority didn't mean jack ******************** to USA Jet when they stopped flying the Falcons? The irony being, you have no place to talk about how seniority rules.

Don't think we were talking about JUS seniority, thought this was a NJ thread where we were talking about how people get into other seats. Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't understand all these comparisons to a bottom feeder. Is there a fear here, that it has to be vocalized in order to ensure separation? BTW One of greatest joys, is looking back at the guys I helped move on from JUS into career position such as NJ, JB, SWA, etc. And I bet in there old age when they talk about flying, many of their tales will be of the days at KYIP.

 

[imacdog]

Just happy to point out your hypocrisy, YIP. Cargo forum is this way:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27

 

[TransMach]

Government Retirements ...

You are miss-informed. Federal employees on the General Schedule have a 401k type of savings plan called the Thrift Savings Plan wherein the government will provide matching funds up to 4.5% of the employees regular earnings. They also have the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) which provides a monthly annuity similar to Social Security. There is no health care beyond what any other citizen receives and that is the whole of it.

I know, my wife has been employed by the Department of Veterans Affairs for 25 years.

TM

You are mostly uninformed about government retirements. Many of the government workers who retire actually get a pay raise >> because they also collect social security on top of what they collect in retirement.

Although in the future I hope these types of retirements go away. This country can't afford it.

 

[realityman]

What a terrible inconvenient truth


If this is true why all the screaming about "Get out of my seat?" in the name of age and safety?

You must have me confused with someone else. I have been a staunch supporter of NOT having a mandatory retirement age.

I am, however, a strong supporter of a more comprehensive medical for everyone. And I think the checkrides need to be more real-to-life and comprehensive. In fact, the whole testing for pilot certificates needs to be overhauled from the ground up. Why on earth does the FAA publish the written tests for everyone to study before taking the test?! I sure wish that when I was in college my instructors had made the final exams available to study before taking them.

But I am most definitely NOT in favor of some arbitrary age limit for pilots. I've flown with some real bone-head older pilots. But no more so than the bone-head younger guys. And I've also flown with some truly excellent older pilots.

I guess the biggest area of deficiency with the older guys has been duties not related to actually flying the aircraft. Some of the older gentlemen are a little less than 'helpful' when it comes to throwing bags, moving the liferaft, cleaning the cabin, and attending to all the thousands of details that need looking after which are supposed to separate us from the airlines. Yes, some of the older guys do a great job with these duties too, but there are definitely a number who aren't doing the job. If you can't/won't do the ENTIRE job (not just moving the controls), then it's time to leave. Of course, this would apply to a few of the younger ones too.

 

[pilotyip]

You must have me confused with someone else. I have been a staunch supporter of NOT having a mandatory retirement age...............then it's time to leave. Of course, this would apply to a few of the younger ones too.

Think you read it wrong, I am all for any type of testing, mental, physical, etc to determine who should be able to fly an airplane, but it is uniformly applied across all age brakets starting at say age 40 when the EKG kicks in ever year. But to say these tests start at age 60, or 65 to eliminate the older pilots, while not subjecting the younger piltos to the same test, is well just "Get out of myseat" again

 

[acaTerry]

Think you read it wrong, I am all for any type of testing, mental, physical, etc to determine who should be able to fly an airplane, but it is uniformly applied across all age brakets starting at say age 40 when the EKG kicks in ever year. But to say these tests start at age 60, or 65 to eliminate the older pilots, while not subjecting the younger piltos to the same test, is well just "Get out of myseat" again

I like this idea. 40 is a good time to do this. The trick is to make it impossible for the guys who "buy the medical" to pass the test.

 

[realityman]

Think you read it wrong, I am all for any type of testing, mental, physical, etc to determine who should be able to fly an airplane, but it is uniformly applied across all age brakets starting at say age 40 when the EKG kicks in ever year. But to say these tests start at age 60, or 65 to eliminate the older pilots, while not subjecting the younger piltos to the same test, is well just "Get out of myseat" again

Sorry, once again my writing wasn't clear. I agree, all medicals and testing should be uniform for all age brackets.