G5 SIC slots

[realityman]

With the fact that you nor your advisor know the meaning of "rule of 72", you appear to be lost in a fog (that or your advisor is mis-educating you).

That's okay. Seems like good fog. My account is doing well enough based on his advice. Maybe he knows more than you think. You've never met him, the only info you have on him is what I've told you, and most of what I've told you is that over the years his advice has worked out very well for me, and somehow from all that you've determined he's a lousy adviser. I'd really hate to see your decision making abilities at work based on what you're saying here.

Okay, no more from me on this subject. Pass all the judgements you like about my adviser. What you think isn't important, because my results with him have been right on target based on what he's telling me.

 

[jonjuan]

His name must be Warren Buffet because only he has come close to 12% a year over 30 years.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Seniority rules.

Not at Netjest

 

[NachoMamma]

Not at Netjest

Bingo!

 

[acaTerry]

Seniority in the fracs is really pointless. Look at the situation at NJA for example. Many FOs are near the 10 year payscale maxout. They can work there for 30 years and not see a dime more...EVER. Upgrades...yeah, in like another 8 years if they are lucky (that makes you a 15 year FO on a 10 year payrate). PICs will bid the new equipment (lest they wait out a displacement and possibly get a fleet they hate) and the seats they vacate will go to disposal because our company leadership has it in their head that shrinkage is growth. FO bids in the GV are all that is left. But guess what? Those are going to PICs now too. So now the SICs have one thing left to use seniority for...which of the 3 crummy schedules do we want? Option 1 where you are on the road 7 days at a time, all the while being cabin boy cleaning up after the previous crew who didn't clean the plane or bother to do Jepps? Option 2 where you do 6 on 3 off until you turn purple? Or Option 3 where you have absolutely no idea when you work each month? So aside from vacation bids, seniority means nothing anymore. You have no upgrade, no payscale increase, and no life. So I ask...does expecting progress in your career make you an entitled baby? I think not.

 

[imacdog]

Are you looking at moving on Terry? Just curious what the general feeling amongst the stagnated FO's is these days.

 

[cldsfr79]

Seniority in the fracs is really pointless. Look at the situation at NJA for example. Many FOs are near the 10 year payscale maxout. They can work there for 30 years and not see a dime more...EVER. Upgrades...yeah, in like another 8 years if they are lucky (that makes you a 15 year FO on a 10 year payrate). PICs will bid the new equipment (lest they wait out a displacement and possibly get a fleet they hate) and the seats they vacate will go to disposal because our company leadership has it in their head that shrinkage is growth. FO bids in the GV are all that is left. But guess what? Those are going to PICs now too. So now the SICs have one thing left to use seniority for...which of the 3 crummy schedules do we want? Option 1 where you are on the road 7 days at a time, all the while being cabin boy cleaning up after the previous crew who didn't clean the plane or bother to do Jepps? Option 2 where you do 6 on 3 off until you turn purple? Or Option 3 where you have absolutely no idea when you work each month? So aside from vacation bids, seniority means nothing anymore. You have no upgrade, no payscale increase, and no life. So I ask...does expecting progress in your career make you an entitled baby? I think not.

This was a great post! It definitely sums up the mind set of the FOs from what I have heard and I couldn't agree more with what was written: PICs bidding new PIC slots or large cabin SIC slots bc they want a shiny new plane, lazy crews not cleaning up a cabin without recourse (this can be a whole new thread), and the fact that seniority is nothing more now and days than getting the vacation you want.

If I was an FO looking at 10 more years to upgrade, I would be looking at an exit plan. I'd rather sit 15+ years in the right seat of a slow moving major than at a fractional. Even Junior PICs are starting to squawk a bit. Yeah they get the captain cash but they still are the "cabin boy" and have to put up with the old or lazy or incompetent guy that sits in the left seat, which together appears to make up a large population.

 

[jonjuan]

Seniority in the fracs is really pointless. Look at the situation at NJA for example. Many FOs are near the 10 year payscale maxout. They can work there for 30 years and not see a dime more...EVER. Upgrades...yeah, in like another 8 years if they are lucky (that makes you a 15 year FO on a 10 year payrate). PICs will bid the new equipment (lest they wait out a displacement and possibly get a fleet they hate) and the seats they vacate will go to disposal because our company leadership has it in their head that shrinkage is growth. FO bids in the GV are all that is left. But guess what? Those are going to PICs now too. So now the SICs have one thing left to use seniority for...which of the 3 crummy schedules do we want? Option 1 where you are on the road 7 days at a time, all the while being cabin boy cleaning up after the previous crew who didn't clean the plane or bother to do Jepps? Option 2 where you do 6 on 3 off until you turn purple? Or Option 3 where you have absolutely no idea when you work each month? So aside from vacation bids, seniority means nothing anymore. You have no upgrade, no payscale increase, and no life. So I ask...does expecting progress in your career make you an entitled baby? I think not.

Miss the airlines?

 

[acaTerry]

Miss the airlines?

Not really. I am in fact rather happy (yes, still) at NJA. Overall it's a still a good job, even with much of the monkey business that's going on these days. But you know, no matter how much I like the job, I still have to have a future and the possibility of taking care of my family long term.
And with no upgrade, and even the SIC slots going to PICs now, there's just no point in stagnating. The initial pay hit of going to the airlines can be justified. Even if I never do upgrade, at 5 or 6 yrs from now at an airline, say Delta for example, $106,000 with many schedule lines to choose from, and a real reserve line (not the make believe reserve we have at NJA) is also possible. What's stopping me is that I don't want to do the whole commuting thing again. And I like the type of flying we do at NJA.
Nothing against the airlines, I just like what I do better now. But if those SIC slots for the GV keep going like the upgrades have, and there is no big improvement in pay next contract, I'll have to go. Sad, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[corpflunkie]

Just curious, but if a PIC bids down to SIC on the G-Whiz fleet, wouldn't said individual be taking a pay cut?

 

[CA1900]

Just curious, but if a PIC bids down to SIC on the G-Whiz fleet, wouldn't said individual be taking a pay cut?

Yep. Pay cut for him, while denying a pay raise for an SIC. Win-win! (for the company)

 

[trogges]

Your attitude amuses me Terry; you seem to have no idea what the current pilot market is like. You assume that you could leave NJA and go work for Delta, or any other airline, on your terms. What about the thousands of well qualified pilots, including the 495, of which I am a part of, that are beating the pavement everyday for any job that lets them pursue their dream of flying. Bringing home $120k+ in addition to great benefits, schedule and QOL, even while being forced to sit in the right seat and vaccuum up crackers and dog hair? You poor thing! Sounds like pretty good duty to a lot of pilots. You are doing what is best for your family now. Where else are you going to make that kind of money and still be home to see your family grow? I don't need, nor do I want, your sympathy, but guys like you that have the gall to complain at all about one of the best jobs in aviation, especially given the circumstances, are really salting the wound. Seniority has no value? Try telling that to your less senior comrades on the street. Get your head out of the sand. Please go stagnate somewhere else.

 

[imacdog]

Stagnation sucks Terry, but that's pretty universal no matter where you are.

 

[nordo_2]

Your attitude amuses me Terry; you seem to have no idea what the current pilot market is like. You assume that you could leave NJA and go work for Delta, or any other airline, on your terms. What about the thousands of well qualified pilots, including the 495, of which I am a part of, that are beating the pavement everyday for any job that lets them pursue their dream of flying. Bringing home $120k+ in addition to great benefits, schedule and QOL, even while being forced to sit in the right seat and vaccuum up crackers and dog hair? You poor thing! Sounds like pretty good duty to a lot of pilots. You are doing what is best for your family now. Where else are you going to make that kind of money and still be home to see your family grow? I don't need, nor do I want, your sympathy, but guys like you that have the gall to complain at all about one of the best jobs in aviation, especially given the circumstances, are really salting the wound. Seniority has no value? Try telling that to your less senior comrades on the street. Get your head out of the sand. Please go stagnate somewhere else.

What SIC is making $120,000?

 

[jonjuan]

Not really. I am in fact rather happy (yes, still) at NJA. Overall it's a still a good job, even with much of the monkey business that's going on these days. But you know, no matter how much I like the job, I still have to have a future and the possibility of taking care of my family long term.
And with no upgrade, and even the SIC slots going to PICs now, there's just no point in stagnating. The initial pay hit of going to the airlines can be justified. Even if I never do upgrade, at 5 or 6 yrs from now at an airline, say Delta for example, $106,000 with many schedule lines to choose from, and a real reserve line (not the make believe reserve we have at NJA) is also possible. What's stopping me is that I don't want to do the whole commuting thing again. And I like the type of flying we do at NJA.
Nothing against the airlines, I just like what I do better now. But if those SIC slots for the GV keep going like the upgrades have, and there is no big improvement in pay next contract, I'll have to go. Sad, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

understood. imo, you might want to beat the xmas rush.