Frustrated

[PositiveRate]

...and there are few greater things in this world then co-ed dormatories.

the airlines are great fun, but i miss college!

 

[Draginass]

It IS whinning when you complain about something that isn't going to change and you can do nothing about.

1. Flying is a job, not a life.

2. You will probably be furloughed sometime in your career and you need backup skills.

3. It is possible that you could lose your medical certificate and be forced out of the profession.

What is the cost of college degree? Maybe $35k at a state school? What's the cost of your flight training? Maybe $50,000?

Right today, what's the 2nd year pay at a major airline? . . . . about $85,000.

Look into scholarships, loans, etc. and start you college degree next semester.

 

[cvsfly]

Like many alluded to here, the best arguement for a college education is that it gives you a foudation for doing something else. I would get a degree in something other than "Aeronautical Science". There are no guarrentees in this life. You may never become a professional pilot - then where would you be. If you can't handle going to school and flight training at the same time, then I'd say you are already in the wrong business. Professional pilots are life long seekers of higher and recurrent education - you are never out of school for very long.

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

PFT aside, I have had many a wingman that have been flying much higher performing jets than you'll ever see with a lot less than 550 hours. What you have accomplished is nothing to brag about.

Personally, I can deal with you flying a jet next month and why would someone like me be p!ssed at you? PFT or not, I lump airline pilots in with everyone else I pay to get me where I want to go whether it be across an ocean or across town.

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

"You probably couldnt afford to fly on this aircraft with your lousy government salary"

That is oh so true...your insight is awe inspiring

 

[adam_jorgensen]

What I think I'm more worried about is not getting a degree, but when should I get a degree? I want it before I'm 30 years old (in 13 years) but are not going to go right to university right when I finish high school. I'm just not ready nor know what I want to take. What if I instead, got my privates probably next spring, get all my other licenses like the multi engine, COMM, etc then worked for somebody? I think that would be good because then I can get paid for flying then I would go to university at the same time because this time, I will have the money and won't have to learn 2 hard things at the same time. What about getting a diploma? I may get that and then get a degree later on. Either way, I'm not putting off flying for college and because that is just how my brain works. I'm not going to learn 2 really hard things at the same time. Probably going to get bashed as usual for this. Either way, I am going to do to university and get a degree, it just won't be right when I get out of high school and I will peruse all my licenses first because that is my priority. How does this sound? I just have a feeling that this is what I should I do.

I am going to stop asking these kind of questions here because the many different opinions of people are just too much for me. Between the 1001 answers here and my parents answers, I don't know who to believe anymore. Instead of trying to find an answer, I have done worse and have gotten my brain into thinking overload. From now on, I'm only going to go to either my parents, or real life pilots for questions like this. Your answers are all really appreciated and I thank all of you for responding so well to my questions, but I realize that it just does me no good to seek trouble of finding 1001 opinions. It just leaves me worst off in the end.

I was saying to my parents last night, I just want to be prepared. I don't want to be unprepared for the big picture. I want to have a happy life when I'm older with the job I want, a happy marriage and everything. I have seen how not being prepared and not making decisions to late in life have destroyed peoples lives. I want to get all the worry out of the way and over with so that I won't have to go through it later on. The thing is, I'm looking too much at the big picture. I need to look at what I need to do now and worry about crossing that bridge when I need to. Its just my character. Prepare for things. Don't do the test if you haven't studied and then fail. That is what I'm trying to put my future as. I don't want to be too late. This is where I wish I would start putting more of my faith in the big guy up above us. Only he knows what is the right answer for me and what is the right way for me. I need to start listening more to him, and less to the world.

So for now, I am going to put off all this silly worry, only worry about getting my privates, and worry about getting a degree when I will really need it and know more of what I will do. And I'm just going to concentrate on flying for now because that is what I love. I'm not going to let something ruin it for me.

 

[Beechnut]

Baby steps man, baby steps.

S.

 

[stardog]

You can certainly be a professional pilot without the four-year degree. I know people who don't have the degree and are flying for a living. Heck, Richard Bach (author) doesn't have a college degree.

There are plenty of flying jobs out there for folks without a degree. However, if your goal is to get to an airline, then you're going to need it. As for how to afford it: good grades, scholarships, grants, working while in school, and student loans are the key. I had to do all the above and managed without financial help from my parents.

 

[bobbysamd]

What I think I'm more worried about is not getting a degree, but when should I get a degree . . . .

Do yourself a favor. Go to college full tiime right out of high school, work hard at it, graduate, and get it out of the way while your mind is essentially in "school" mode. I can virtually guarantee that if you don't you never will go to college. You will get caught up with work, whatever it may be, and will never find the time for school. Don't make that mistake. Just do it.

Lots of luck with your plans.

 

[starvingcfi]

not to be rude here, but is adam getting on anyone else's nerves? asking a question, then arguing with people about their feedback. no matter how many times you ask the question, you're going to get the same answer. i'm in your shoes right now except a little farther up the road with less time to screw around. am i whining? am i b*tching? am i misspelling college? (by the way, lol at saabstory's post. hahaha) no. stop whining. (pretty sure you misspelled that too)

again, not trying to be rude, but i had to say something. grow up.

starvingcfi

 

[GLSoar]

No degree

Let me say that it is frustrating out there even if you have a degree. I have a bit of time and have been fortunate the past 2 years. If you have a flying job today consider yourself lucky. As far as degrees, from my instructing experience I can tell you that pilots that went to an university usually learn much better than GA pilots, which is a big plus when you get flooded with new information. I have had some great instructors, but even so I found gaps in my knowledge, Universities are a great tool for filling those gaps. If you have a flying job and can't go to school full time, keep flying and go to school part time, the time will pass quickly. lOOK AT YOUR OPTIONS, You can cry that you don't have a degree or you can go part time an make an effort to get one. Look at ten years from now! I'm 1 class from a degree and have been going to school part time for awhile. The time goes by quickly!

 

[DoinTime]

Adam....

Don't fall into the trap that so many of my coworkers are currently in. Getting your degree done now is of paramount importance. Once you have your ratings and start working as a professional pilot you are going to give yourself an opportunity for "life" to happen. Moving out of the parents house, getting married, having children. As all of us established professional pilots know having a "life" and being an aspiring aviator don't go hand in hand. Even if you are capable of returning to school years down the road when you have a reasonably well paying job you are looking at 7-10 years to complete a degree at a part time pace. How many major airline jobs are going to pass you by before you have the prerequisites? You are still young, so young that you probably face age discrimination for years to come. Use this youth to eliminate hurtles in your career.

There are a lot of things you have to take on faith at this point. Your parents and family members may have great intentions for you but their advise seems to be misguided. Aviation is a very rewarding career but is going to take a lot of dedication and faith to make it happen for you.

 

[bobbysamd]

Age discrimination

Originally posted by DoinTime You are still young, so young that you probably face age discrimination for years to come . . . . .

That's rich. Since when are younger people discriminated against in this business? I've heard of commuter FOs who can't buy a legal drink.

I was about forty and could not get hired when flight instructors with similar or fewer quals as me but nearly half my age were getting the jobs.

The younger you are, the better off you are in this business. But, do not sacrifice college. There isn't much difference between 20 years old and 24 years old in this business. Or 25 and 35. A 35 and up newbie will have problems. Newbie over 40? Forget the majors and probably the commuters.

 

[adam_jorgensen]

Originally posted by starvingcfi
again, not trying to be rude, but i had to say something. grow up.

Yes. You are being rude. Instead of pointing out my spelling mistakes, please stick to the topic. I know my spelling is not the best, in fact, its my weakest area. Are you using my spelling mistakes as evidence against me that I will never make it in life? Let me worry about that instead of trying to be a wise guy. Could we just put the freakin spelling and wise guy comments to rest please?

Like I said, I'm not going to read anymore "opinions". It just makes me sick. Not that I don't appreciate any of them. Their great comments but I'm just screwing myself listening to them. My parents say for me to listen to them and not anybody on the net, you guys say opposite. What good is this doing me? Instead, its continuing to confuse me.

 

[Checks]

Lighten up Francis!

I would advise you seek counseling, you have issues that need resolved. Thats just another "opinion" that I am sure you wont read anyways.

 

[starvingcfi]

some girls just can't handle the truth

 

[starvingcfi]

oh and PS....probably a great idea to listen to mommy and daddy. i mean what do all these airline pilots know about the aviation industry anyway? don't ask a question and bash the advice. good luck at burger king.

http://www.sherm.20megsfree.com/burgerking.swf

 

[skiddriver]

Adam,

If you're still listening, I'll just give you some numbers that might help you and your Dad look at this objectively. I looked at the numbers from the AirInc magazines for airline hirees for the last 4 years. I've taken an average for pre and post 9/11 for Major Airline hirees and all Airline hirees, broken out by the number of years of college they completed. The assumption (which should be good but will not be completely accurate) is that pilots with 4 or more years of college have at least a Bachelors degree and people with less than 2 years of college don't have any degree and may have not attended college at all. I left out the folks in between, but you should be able to figure those numbers out yourself. The total number of hirees surveyed pre and post 9/11 are listed as well. As you can see, the job market is tighter now and the opportunity for pilots with less education is greatly reduced. Sorry that the numbers don't line up exactly, but you should be able to make sense of them.


.................................Major.Airlines.......................All.Airlines

Background..........Civilian.......Military............Civilian.........Military
Degree?................Yes/No......Yes/No............Yes/No........Yes/No

Percentage hired:

Post.9/11............90%/2%....99%/0%.........84%/3%.......99%/0%

Pre...9/11...........88%/2%....99%/0%.........82%/5%.......98%/1%

Number surveyed:

Post.9/11.............353/10........78/0..............709/31.........498/0

Pre...9/11..........1053/38......1025/0............1850/117.....1399/14

So, for example, the percentage of pilots surveyed Post 9/11 who were hired by a Major Airline from a civilian background and who had a degree was 90% representing 353 pilots. The number of civilian pilots hired by a Major who didn't have a degree from the same time frame was 2%, or 10 pilots. These numbers don't represent all pilots hired during these time frames, just the ones who were surveyed by AirInc. I think the percentages are good overall numbers however.

Show your Dad these numbers and tell him that I said that the few people who did get hired at a major airline with no college had many thousands of hours of high performance turbine time and a lot of other airline experience.

Adam, it will take you much longer to put together the flight time you'll require to overcome not having a degree, than it will for you to get your degree in the first place. You will get into a higher paying flying job sooner with a degree, and you will have something to fall back on if you get furloughed.

I have a 14 year old son and I know your Dad wants the best for you. Tell him I said, from one Dad to another, that you should get your degree and you shouldn't take any time off at all after high school. If you don't know what to degree to take, take general education course at a junior college for a couple of years until you make up your mind.

Good luck.

 

[uwochris]

Adam, I hope you're still listening.

First off, the above post (skiddriver) was excellent. Good advice, and stats to give to your parents as proof.

Secondly, your parents said to listen to them and not to people on the net. Well, these people on the net are REAL airline pilots working in the industry, unlike your parents. I really doubt you will find any different opinions from asking pilots in person. Everyone here has gone, or is going through, your situation. I can sympathize with you because my parents felt the same way. But I soon realized that my parents really know nothing about what it takes to become a pilot. And I'm sure your parents know zilch too about pilots.

Thirdly, if you failed to read my first post (1st page) I will reiterate what I mentioned.... If I was in your shoes, I would either:
(1) Join the millitary and get a paid education, paid flight training, and guarenteed flying job.
(2) Go to community college now while you fly. After getting a diploma, work and build some income. Than go back to college or finish your degree through correspondence.

I would highly recommend you not put off the degree. If you cannot afford it right now, no problem. Work and earn some cash, than go to school. So many people put off the degree... it is REALLY difficult to go back to school after taking a break. Also, doing an entire 4 year degree part time while you work is pretty impossible... that will take 8 years, at the absolute minimum.

So, I think the best thing for you after reading your posts would be to at least go to community college, get a diploma, earn some income, and than transfer later on.

On a separate note... you mentionned you cannot handle studying for 2 hard things at the same time. This will be a problem than if you plan to work as a pilot and complete a degree on the side. When you work as a pilot, the studying will NOT stop. Especially if you are a CFI. You will constantly have to redo proficiency training, which means hitting the books on your time off. I'm sure you've heard this phrase many times... "You're training is never over in this business."

I wish you luck in your decision Adam. In the end, only you can make this decision. You can choose to listen to real airline pilots on this forum or you can ignore them. 17 is a tough age to be and I think you are starting to realize why!

Whatever you decide, do NOT put off school. At least go to comm college and earn a diploma. Fly on the side, part time. This is the a good solution, in my opinion.

 

[banned username 2]

Adam,

If you want to fly for a US based Major Airline, you WILL need a 4 year college degree... Plain and simple... I know it isn't the answer you want to hear... but welcome to the real world...

You can ask your dad a million times, but unless he is in the Aviation industry as a pilot ir HR person who does the hiring for a Major Airline, you are simply asking the wrong person... His advise is going to steer you down a road that you will not like...

The world is full of things that many perceive as "unfair", "dumb", "not logical" and whatever else you can feel... The problem is, myself and thousands of other HAVE 4 year college degrees, HAVE thousands of hours of flight experience, and will be much more elgible in any job we apply for than someone without a college degree... no matter how useless you think the degree is, it WILL make the difference...

Everyone else who is flying in the jobs that you someday hope to aspire to, have done what it takes (4 year degree, all pilot certificates and ratings, and earned the experience necessary to get where we want to be)...

I went to ERAU, did a degree at the same time as my flight training... I am no genius (had a C+/B- average in High School), but I got through just fine (even graduated with honors).. my parents weren't rich... My dad was a blue collar worker... There is lots of financial aid available out there, everyone deals with it and it will takes years to pay back... again, welcome to the real world...

If the stress of training and studying for school is too much, I'd hate to see how you would do flying an ILS down to minimums, with an engine out, multiple system failures in weather that would scare a gopher back into his hole...

Life isn't easy, anything that is worthwhile attaining isn't easy... you have to "suck it up" and deal with it, it is part of growing up...

There is a LOT of highly experienced members on this board, you should sit back and listen to what they have to say... They know what they are talking about when it comes to this Profession... Your dad may be a great guy, but it is obvious (from what you have stated) that he doesn't know didley-squat about a career as a pilot... or what it takes to attain such a career... Yeah, I realize you like what your dad has to say vs. the dozens of highly experienced opinions on this board (flying LOOKS like more fun than sitting in a classroom)... BUT you have to do the things that are required to obtain your goal... Getting a 4 year college degree should be #1 on your list... that is if you are serious about a Career as a Professional Pilot...

If you want it, you will do what it takes... Part of this whole progression is learning what you need to do from people who know (sorry, Daddy may be smart, but he is leading you down the wrong road)... Making the RIGHT decisions to end up at your ultimate goal...

Get off the defense, sit back and learn... because trust me, you have a LOT to learn....

Good Luck!