Frontier Airlines becomes Wholly Owned subsidary of Republic

[General Lee]

I bet Bedford will use the Lynx certificate (and krappy contract) to buy more Dash-8-400s and then shop them around, maybe for DCI use to cover old ATR routes out of ATL. They might be paid worse than Colgan.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Wow. You take a day off and the crap hits the fan. As someone who was involved in the Indy debacle, and a current Republic employee I can make the following observations.

First, this is very different from the situation with ACA/Indy. ACA lost its contracts because they stupidly decided to put the Airbus on the same certificate as the CRJs and Dojets, thus violating scope clauses. Bedford has played the certificate shellgame very well, and has things set up so there is no chance a contract can be canceled for scope. Also Independence was flying gas guzzling 50 seat RJs, not larger aircraft like the 170/190. If Independence had CRJ 700s or 900s, the outcome could have been very different. Also Beford will have a good mix of large RJs and narrowbodies, unlike Fly I which did not have narrowbodies for the first 6 months. Independence's operation was running well once they got to 12 319s and 25 RJs. Unfortunately by then Fly I was a dead duck because of the cash burn.

Second, the middle management at Republic is very weak compared to Independence, and cannot sustain a standalone airline. I suspect you will see a lot of Frontier middle management moving over to Indianapolis to teach the people there a lesson in running a real passenger service airline.

Also don't forget about the slots at LGA and DCA Bedford purchased in the US Airways bankruptcy. I think you will see a major shift of flying away from Denver, and towards more profitable routes in the east and southeast. I also expect to see Bedford consolodate the Republic and Frontier certificates. The pilots scope clause requires all the flying be on one list, so there are no incentives to keep the certificates seperate from this perspective. Maintaining multiple certificates is horrendously expensive. There are no restrictions on either certificate so it would not make any sense to keep them seperate. However if Bedford thinks he can get some turboprop flying, Lynx may stay on one certificate, or be combined with Chautauqua. I expect Shuttle to remain as it is, because of the scope clauses at DL and UA.

Bedford made it pretty clear in his latest updates that he does not see much of a future in providing lift to mainline carriers. I guess now we know how he plans to keep the company going in a shrinking market for regional carriers.

DAL SCOPE ON THIS

D. Permitted Arrangement with Respect to Category A and C Operations ​

1. Section 1 C. will not apply to category A or C operations on any permitted aircraft type. ​

Exception: If a permitted aircraft type meets the certificated passenger seat requirement of Section 1 B. 40. b. when first placed into service by a Delta Connection Carrier but is subsequently certificated for operation in the United States with a maximum passenger seating capacity in excess of 50 passenger seats, this permitted aircraft type may continue to be operated by Delta Connection Carriers as long as all Delta Connection Carriers operate such permitted aircraft type with no more than 50 passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 65,000 or fewer pounds at all times. ​

2. If a domestic air carrier operates both permitted aircraft types and aircraft other than permitted aircraft types, the exemption for that domestic air carrier provided by ​

Section 1 D. 1.
will not apply unless: ​

a. the flying on aircraft other than permitted aircraft types is not performed for the Company within the meaning of Section 1 C., and ​

b. there is no reduction in the level of the Company’s then existing system scheduled aircraft block hours of flying as the result of the performance of such flying on other than a permitted aircraft type, and ​

c. the aircraft other than a permitted aircraft type, is either a jet aircraft certificated for operation in the United States for 106 or fewer passenger seats and configured with 97 or fewer passenger seats (provided that any jet aircraft configured with between 71 and 97 passenger seats is not flown for the Company or any affiliate and is not flown on a city pair that is served by the Company or an affiliate) or a propeller driven aircraft configured with 72 or fewer passenger seats, and is operated on its own behalf or pursuant to agreement with an air carrier(s) other than the Company or an affiliate. ​

Exception: If a carrier that performs category A or category C operations acquires an aircraft that would cause the Company to no longer be in compliance with the provisions of Section 1 D. 2. c., the Company will terminate such operations on the date that is the later of the date such aircraft is placed in revenue service, or nine months from the date that the Company first became aware of the potential acquisition

 

[lookin4better]

Some little boy on another forum actually called RAH a "new legacy" carrier.....BARF!!

BB isnt the only enemy... its clear that glassy-eyed kids with zero forward thinking will help him tear this whole industry to pieces.

 

[Indy319FA]

Super,

How do you define a domestic air carrier? The FAA sees Republic as three (now five) domestic air carriers because of the certificates. You ought to see the paper chase they go through to take a 170 part out of Shuttle stock to put on a Republic aircraft, or vice versa. As long as the Airbus or 195s do not appear on the Shuttle or CHQ certificates, there is no scope violation.

 

[cybourg10]

I bet Bedford will use the Lynx certificate (and krappy contract) to buy more Dash-8-400s and then shop them around, maybe for DCI use to cover old ATR routes out of ATL. They might be paid worse than Colgan.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Is that even possible? How can you pay someone to fly 70+ passengers for less than Colgan in this country? Can DAL get rid of Shuttle America now and get some of that flying back with mainline aircraft?

 

[lookin4better]

cyborg,

Its not about how many people they are flying, all they care about is telling friends they fly " big planes " ..... have you seen the kids flying for RAH? Nuff said.... its SJS gone pandemic.

 

[Noserider76]

Super,

How do you define a domestic air carrier? The FAA sees Republic as three (now five) domestic air carriers because of the certificates. You ought to see the paper chase they go through to take a 170 part out of Shuttle stock to put on a Republic aircraft, or vice versa. As long as the Airbus or 195s do not appear on the Shuttle or CHQ certificates, there is no scope violation.

I understand there is one pilot seniority list for all the separate "companies". Is that true?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Can we move this thread to the regional board?

 

[jacksjj]

I understand there is one pilot seniority list for all the separate "companies". Is that true?

True statement.

 

[007]

So they own a small Airbus operator? What's the problem?

Back in the 90's this discussion went: "So they'll fly small 50 seat jets, we have scope, what's the problem?"