From the ALPA Age 60 Website...

[Falconjet]

Until ALPA does an honest to goodness no bs poll, there will never be any way to truly tell whos "interest" is not being represented.

So far both sides interpret as they see fit, then run around yelling about alpa not representing their interests.

Prater has said that official policy is for keeping the rule as is, but the way he whispers it and puts it in microscopic print and then goes and puts the pragmatism bit in bold and yells it with a bullhorn makes it a little hard to tell sometimes.

Whatever, its clear the FAA doesn't care anyway, its mind is made up.

Getting waivers may or may not happen. These apaad guys are pretty savvy, and Marion's sentiment is with them.

Props to the APA. At least they figured out where they stood, and straight up said so. Even if they are whizzing into the wind, at least the world knows where they stand.

AMEN!

FJ

 

[Freight Dog]

Rez... with you being so full of solutions, why don't you suggest one? I've told you several times what my solutions were.

Are you saying the BRP is the way to go? Do you think it sends the correct message to airline managements and other government bodies who want to see cabotage, open skies, etc.?

Also, while you're at it, please tell me when and how being pragmatic ever benefited this profession?

 

[Freight Dog]

We have a genius in charge of the FAA. ALPA simply cannot compete with her...

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=f849643b-c050-4aea-b695-a60b2ba61db9&

Blakey flunked the Private Pilot Written..... FOUR TIMES!!

 

[Andy]

We have a genius in charge of the FAA. ALPA simply cannot compete with her...

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=f849643b-c050-4aea-b695-a60b2ba61db9&

Blakey flunked the Private Pilot Written..... FOUR TIMES!!

Um, note the date of the article. I find it a bit hard to believe.

 

[Freight Dog]

Heheheh

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

with you being so full of solutions, why don't you suggest one? I've told you several times what my solutions were.

My solutions are to increase PAC particaption, increase LEC voter particaption, increase LEC meeting attendance. My solutions are to build larger and more effective LEC and MEC legislative affairs committee's. Thus the coordinated actions of more pilots can be used to effect postive change on CapHill.

There is a demonstration on May 17th in DC. The pilot turn out, I fear, will be pretty weak.

Sorry there isn't instant gratification, one shot one kill, barvado and sensationalism listed above, like an SOS... but that isn't the way it is done... Politcs is a slow grey beast. We can't be content for years (age 60) and do nothing to prepare for change.

The problem is in Jan. the FAA said age 60 will change. One of many reasons why is because they knew ALPA was only so effective. What if they knew ALPA was such a signifiacant force that the FAA had to be very careful? It certainly is possbile if we ALPA pilots were policitically saavy and strong.

Are you saying the BRP is the way to go? Do you think it sends the correct message to airline managements and other government bodies who want to see cabotage, open skies, etc.?

One the big problems ALPA has had on CapHill is mixed messages. At certain times CapHill just shut out the pilots becuase there where too many viewpoints from too many different groups....

What is difficult for us is to hash out our differences before we go to the Hill with a unifed single message. Any other way is self defeating. As you can see from this message board topic we don't agree, so how can we go to the Hill?

Also, while you're at it, please tell me when and how being pragmatic ever benefited this profession?

My two responses above apply here...

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[Flopgut]

Are you saying the BRP is the way to go? Do you think it sends the correct message to airline managements and other government bodies who want to see cabotage, open skies, etc.?

Whoa! That's a good point. Is Prater going to have another BRP when they decide cabotage is a great idea?

 

[Flopgut]

Rez! I can't entirely disagree with the way you're thinking, but it's getting too late in the game. Sure, pragmatisim suits a game of inches. But this is big league time, we're supposed to be pros. We have a lot of franchise players who make a lot of money...Somebody: MAKE A PLAY! A big play. Change the momentum of this game!

I think your solutions are too little too late Rez. Maybe if we could get everybody interested in something like the railroad retirements your reserved approach would work? (I'll pledge 10 grand right now if ALPA would go after something like that instead of age 65) In the absence of that, I think we would all be better off seeking a new union.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Whoa! That's a good point. Is Prater going to have another BRP when they decide cabotage is a great idea?

Repsectfully, waiting till the last night to study and prepare for finals isn't the way to go. I've tried it and it doesn't work. Wanna see my GPA? We've got to prepare way in advance...

Trying to lose 30lbs the night before your wedding so you can fight into that white dress doesn't work.

Rez! I can't entirely disagree with the way you're thinking, but it's getting too late in the game. Sure, pragmatisim suits a game of inches. But this is big league time, we're supposed to be pros. We have a lot of franchise players who make a lot of money...Somebody: MAKE A PLAY! A big play. Change the momentum of this game!

They way we win games is inch by inch... counting on hail mary TD passes and Grand Slam home runs sure sells tickets and is pure sensastionalism... On CapHill there are no fancy plays, dramatic actions or innovative cutting edge political moves that no one has heard of.....

ALPA can't approach a congressmen at the 11th hour and convince him/her to vote our way. Relationships, trust and alliances take along time... If I just met you and asked to borrow $100 you'd probably say no. But if we were friends for years you wouldn't even ask why...

I think your solutions are too little too late Rez. Maybe if we could get everybody interested in something like the railroad retirements your reserved approach would work? (I'll pledge 10 grand right now if ALPA would go after something like that instead of age 65) In the absence of that, I think we would all be better off seeking a new union.

Nothing wrong with ALPA. ALPA is well respected on CapHill by Congressmen, FAA, NTSB, and others... ALPA just needs more ammo and resources. When the ALPA lobbyist go to CapHill and say we have 100% of our membership supporting your office congressman, will you support us... in reality ALPA says we got 14%. Only 14% of ALPA pilots help our lobbyist help us...

My solutions are not too late. It is the way to get things done. There is plenty of time to get prepared for foreign control, age 60, cabatoge and the next group of issues.



If we step up our education and particaption....in other words our activism then we can succeed. What do we have to lose? Only the status quo.

Your thoughts?

 

[Flopgut]

Rez: You'd be great 15-25 years ago; right on the money. However, we can't keep on with the old, failed coping mechanisms ALPA has/is relying on. Something has to be outside the box for it to work real changes in our situation.

I like the railroad pension idea (obviously) and I think it's the sort of thing we should push in the highly political game we find ourselves in. It's the sort of thing we should be countering with rather than age 65. OR, more importantly, maybe use it as a companion issue to the retirement age debate! Do they really want to just be like ICAO, or would they rather give us a quasi answer that pulls us apart? We have been held to the terms of the RLA forever, It's time we push for the rest of the equation! Give us the same retirement program or drop the RLA and let us really be like ICAO!

Seriously, can I get some feedback on this? If this were the sort of issue ALPA was working on, ALPA PAC would have 50 million, just for this issue, in 6 months.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez: You'd be great 15-25 years ago; right on the money. However, we can't keep on with the old, failed coping mechanisms ALPA has/is relying on. Something has to be outside the box for it to work real changes in our situation.

Well... 15-20 years ago the congressional fund raising was a defined season. Now it is simply full time. Campaigns cost money....

There will always be a crisis issue ready to redefine a pilots expectation. Just like age 60.

ALPA Pilot member activisim has always been low. Why not try it? When the DAL pilots objected to the USAIR take over DAL pilots lined the congressional hearing chanber in full uniform. It worked! Are ALPA pilots ready to move?

You say something ? Like what? tell me..

I like the railroad pension idea (obviously) and I think it's the sort of thing we should push in the highly political game we find ourselves in. It's the sort of thing we should be countering with rather than age 65. OR, more importantly, maybe use it as a companion issue to the retirement age debate! Do they really want to just be like ICAO, or would they rather give us a quasi answer that pulls us apart? We have been held to the terms of the RLA forever, It's time we push for the rest of the equation! Give us the same retirement program or drop the RLA and let us really be like ICAO!

I agree. Management loves the RLA..combined with a pro management NMB... the RLA sucks... We need more congressmen who support us... sorry but its back to the PAC for solutions.. we've got to get our PAC % up. Right now its at 14%. That is quite the minority...

Seriously, can I get some feedback on this? If this were the sort of issue ALPA was working on, ALPA PAC would have 50 million, just for this issue, in 6 months.

You'd think the PAC would have that much money.... I wish it did...

With more activism you could influence the PAC steering committee and EC/EB to go full HARD CORE on age 60. You'd be a political power house...

 

[PCL_128]

I like the railroad pension idea (obviously) and I think it's the sort of thing we should push in the highly political game we find ourselves in. It's the sort of thing we should be countering with rather than age 65. OR, more importantly, maybe use it as a companion issue to the retirement age debate! Do they really want to just be like ICAO, or would they rather give us a quasi answer that pulls us apart? We have been held to the terms of the RLA forever, It's time we push for the rest of the equation! Give us the same retirement program or drop the RLA and let us really be like ICAO!

Seriously, can I get some feedback on this? If this were the sort of issue ALPA was working on, ALPA PAC would have 50 million, just for this issue, in 6 months.

Your idea has merit, but discussing it on flightinfo will not bring about any progress. Draft a resolution directing ALPA to research your idea, pass it at your next Local Council meeting, and then move it up the ladder to the MEC and EC. That's how progress is made.

 

[Flopgut]

PCL: Thanks for the input. If ALPA weren't non-functional, that might work. Frankly, why have they not thought up something like this themselves already? It's because they are more of an "activist" type organization and less a union. They are more interested in "taking it back" just so they can give it up again. I want to hear and support thinking that equates to: never again!

 

[PCL_128]

PCL: Thanks for the input. If ALPA weren't non-functional, that might work.

Sounds like a cop-out to me. Andy keeps calling for Captain Prater's recall, yet he does nothing to bring it about. You keep talking about your RR-style pension, yet you won't bring a resolution to start working on the idea. I see nothing on this board but a bunch of complainers. No one wants to actually get to work on changing things. They'd rather sit back and attack the people that actually are doing something.

 

[Flopgut]

Look PCL, I know Prater. Not super well, but I've been hoping he would lead the union, or manage our expectations in some way that we can feel comfortable. That hope is evaporating quickly, however.

Frieght Dog has a heck of a good point. Can we expect that other union issues opposed by the membership majority will be handled in this way? A BRP and an active lack of representation on the issue? As long as the issue has a similiar "silver lining" for the soon to be retired [senior]? Really starting to stink around here.