From Apaad We Won!!

[aircowboy]

December 13, 2007

The bill doesn't take affect for 30 days.

 

[Luke's Dad]

Hey Undaunted Moron, ever wonder why you can still even type?

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at.......................................... Average Age
Retirement .....................................At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9 .....................................................86
51.2 .....................................................85.3
52.5 .....................................................84.6
53.8 .....................................................83.9
55.1 .....................................................83.2
56.4 .....................................................82.5
57.2 .....................................................81.4
58.3 .....................................................80
59.2 .....................................................78.5
60.1 .....................................................76.8
61 ........................................................74.5
62.1 .....................................................71.8
63.1 .....................................................69.3
64.1 .....................................................67.9
65.2......................................................66.8

I don't think the new legislation will keep you in indentured servitude until 65. Retire at 49 and live to 86. Enjoy life. I hope you are senior to me

 

[Deadalus]

Sounds like you just want something (money) for nothing. I've got an idea for you, its called work for pay. Or maybe you just should quit now and become a wellfare burden on society.

Nice try, but if you'd worked hard and half way took care of you're money you wouldn't have to work to 60. Staying at home more would also help you're chances at not getting divorced.

 

[Deadalus]

Hey Undaunted Moron, ever wonder why you can still even type?

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at.......................................... Average Age
Retirement .....................................At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9 .....................................................86
51.2 .....................................................85.3
52.5 .....................................................84.6
53.8 .....................................................83.9
55.1 .....................................................83.2
56.4 .....................................................82.5
57.2 .....................................................81.4
58.3 .....................................................80
59.2 .....................................................78.5
60.1 .....................................................76.8
61 ........................................................74.5
62.1 .....................................................71.8
63.1 .....................................................69.3
64.1 .....................................................67.9
65.2......................................................66.8

Great table, Ive always thought 55 would be a good age for retirement. Now with this 65 garbage maybe I'll look at harder at something else. There are a lot of jobs out there I think you could safely do past 60 without hurting you're health or someone else, this job isn't one of them.

 

[Flopgut]

To those of you who are opposed to this change in the Age 60 rule, what would your position have been back when ALPA fought the imposition of the rule by American Airlines as a company policy and won back through arbitration the jobs of those pilots who were fired by American Airlines back in the 50's? ALPA opposed the imposition of the rule back then. The arbitrator gave those pilots over the age of 60 their jobs back. How would you have felt about the issue back then?

The head of Ameircan Airlines back then worked out a deal with the head of the C.A.B. to implement the Age 60 rule and it stuck back then. Ameircan worked around the ruling of the arbitrator and got the rule implemented by the CAB. It's been with us for six decades. Ironic that APA sought to keep a rule in place that American Airlines management was responsible for and that ALPA successfully fought through arbitration at the time.

So, again, what would your positon have been back then?

You'll be 60 some day. When you have the choice to continue working and some of you will continue to work, what will you think then?

My father started in a DC3 in the early 60s. His fondest memories are of flying with the guys retiring
in his early years. They were skilled, simple, and durable sorts. They did not talk or spend wildly, partially, because they couldn't! The work rules were too bad and the pay was low. And too, their expectations and desires were different. Those old timers died off watching airline pilots make more money than they ever would have dreamed.

The point my father shared with me on this, and the answer to your question: Pilots back then were more interested in increasing pay, building their union, bettering their QOL, and they were also fully committed to safety. Retirement age was an issue, but not the only issue.

It's more relevant to ask what those old pilots would do today than it is to ask what we would think back then. The union is in shambless, pilot pay and QOL are deteriorating fast, safety has a backseat, and that's just the stuff we know about. Things are screwed up, getting worse and the single thing the aged leaders of this profession want today is a little more time for themselves.

 

[get2flyin]

Well overall this sucks. I have no intrest in flying until 65. Some guys do, just not me. Now comes the real problem. Be ready for a very complete physical.

Wrong...read the legislation. It specifically says the medical standards CANNOT change. I think this is one of the "have the cake and eat it too" clauses. I hope the pricks choke on it.

 

[Luke's Dad]

Hey Undaunted Moron, ever wonder why you can still even type?

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at.......................................... Average Age
Retirement .....................................At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9 .....................................................86
51.2 .....................................................85.3
52.5 .....................................................84.6
53.8 .....................................................83.9
55.1 .....................................................83.2
56.4 .....................................................82.5
57.2 .....................................................81.4
58.3 .....................................................80
59.2 .....................................................78.5
60.1 .....................................................76.8
61 ........................................................74.5
62.1 .....................................................71.8
63.1 .....................................................69.3
64.1 .....................................................67.9
65.2......................................................66.8

Now if its about the money, working until 65 will probably net you a cool million extra for the retirement....

If you just want to make Captain earlier, while you still have hair to impress the young hottie flight attendants, so that they are removing articles of clothing on the way to your hotel room in a trance looking at your 4 bars, then I can't help you...I digress..

It's going to happen. Keep that blood pressure down and live a long healthy life, with or without the 6 hottie flight attendants on each overnight.

Cheers

 

[Andy Neill]

The bill doesn't take affect for 30 days.

There's nothing that says 30 days before enactment in the Constitution or in this legislation. Where did you come up with that? What the legilsation does say is:

`(d) Sunset of Age 60 Retirement Rule- On and after the date of enactment of this section, section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, shall cease to be effective.

 

[ivauir]

You're kidding right? Please reread this thread and see who's doing the name calling. The anti APAAD folks are generally the ones making the personal attacks.

Really?

I've never heard one int he lounge bullying anyone who doesn't agree with him.

 

[ivauir]

The damage done will vary from carrier and from pilot to pilot, but don't think for a second that this rule change didn't cost EVERYONE something. If you want to make as much career earnings as you were going to as of yesterday, get ready to work a few years past 60. So instead of a few unfortunate being screwed, everyone is.

How is a 59 year old being screwed?

 

[Quack]

Why doesn't congress just dump a load of sand in my vaseline! wtf...another notch on the wall for how far the mighty have fallen!

 

[Patriot328]

How is a 59 year old being screwed?

Most of them lost their pension and now have to work longer to make up some money. I'd say they were screwed too.

Then there are some 59 year old pilots that didn't lose a pension or didn't have one to begin with, but they get the free ride of sitting on top of the seniority list with the seat/pay/base/qol for an extra five years. There's the windfall right there.

 

[Superpilot92]

This will take some time for the companies to figure out what to do. This is going to cost every airline alot of money. Rules have to be changed, new paperwork made up, people bidding back to the left seat that can. Be assured there will be lawsuits over this. This ought to be fun to watch. just another example of the government sticking its nose in and making a decision on something they dont know the effects of. I knew that if this made it to congress or the senate it would be voted in because most of the government people are coming up on or over 60 and how dare you tell them they are too old to work!!

 

[Freight Dog]

The language of this legislation calls for review in 2 years. If you flood your airline with ASAP/FSAP reports and if you need to, fill out a NASA report separately, also report to the FAA any and all issues you encounter on the line with pilots over 60, perhaps they'll rethink the rule in 2 years despite of what the rest of the world with REAL pilot shortage is doing.

That's when it'll come out - there are not enough pilots abroad, hence to ensure their own economic growth, they have to bend the safety rule a tad.

We have plenty of younger, healthy, well-qualified pilots - we don't have to bend any safety standards.

 

[vetrider]

I bet in two years things will be back to normal pretty much. I doubt all that many guys want to or even can go all the way to 65.