Friendly NJI/NJA discussion

[Hawkered]

GV Flyer,

That may well have been an insurance provision for the operation of Gulfstreams, certainly not a regulatory requirement. If you were so instrumental in this set-up, what would have prevented you from hiring street captains at NJA to accomplish the same task?

I can assure you that this was organized well above the pilot payscale and behind closed doors.

You're right about the comparisons of experience in 1998, but when you consider that the seniority numbers have more than doubled since then with crews that have been described at length in these posts, your arguments tend to fall apart.

We all deserve respect, and the apparent offer of help from one your crews to the egos of people like Seaspray in getting hired will do nothing for the perception of your crews, in fact your latest post seems to reek of the same lack of humility.

 

[XTW]

" A flight attendant is after a husband...anybody's husband."

An old crusty Captain once told me:

"Son, anyone who dates a flight attendant is too lazy to to j*rk off".

I'm just sayin' what I heard.


X

 

[BrnJetFuel]

You said "Additionally, you probably have been flying jets far longer than those who will be sliding right seat to you" regarding the NJI pilots. That's simply not the case. Executive Jet was operating Citation II's when the Gulfstream deal was inked. I listed the chronology to show this. The initial cadre at EJI was required by Gulfstream to be international Gulfstream captains with 2500 hours in type.

I played a peripheral part in setting up the EJI program on the Gulfstream side. I flew as an NJI captain when Gulfstream got two one-eight shares for supplemental lift and I participated in the Executive Jet / Gulfstream joint marketing effort until it ended in 1999.

NJI is a fine organization staffed with professional pilots who deserve to be treated with more respect than the gloating "You're going to be stapled" attitude so many of you have demonstrated.

GV

Whoa, I think I know you. Don't you also hold like 12 different World Records in Aviation too?

NJI will not be stapled to the bottom. Our Union will decide how it's done but we will no less do it equitably. None of us want to spend a week with someone who is pissed and feels they got the short end of the stick. I can imagine that there will be some sort of fence where NJI continues in their respective plane but if they want to bid our planes then they must compete from the bottom. They went to NJI to fly G-strings and as long as they remain in the equipment, then there will be protections.

I'm sure there are plenty of fine people over there. But we have hundreds of pilots at NJA now flying smaller equipment that have more international experience in their small toes than a combined handful at NJI. Imagine what it has been like to have many pilots leave EJA (NJA) for EJI (NJI) and look back while thumbing their noses saying we would never amount to anything and they wanted to go to the bigger airplanes. Then almost every encounter with an NJI sky god, it was like a small child sticking it's tongue back at you on the other side of bullet proof glass. Sure they all got to fly from home and were hired as an F/O making more than some of our most senior captains, instead of demonstrating some form of humility for us red headed step children, most of them obviously got off on letting us know Santulli hated us and our Union. Well the day of reckoning is upon us and I personally plan on taking the high road. But for the next few months and maybe even years, we all know that there is a three year clock on the wall at NJI and many of us are having a hard time hiding the euphoric emotions while watching karma unfold.

 

[Hawkered]

BrnJetfuel,

The union and company have already agreed to the terms of assimilation of NJI into NJA. It is not for any of us to talk about modifications of the Letter Of Agreement, a legal document, nor make false promises about its execution.

Whether or not people at NJI "like" NJA or its pilots is completely irrelevant. They can always quit and go to Hong Kong if they don't like unions.

 

[FLYLOW22]

BrnJetfuel,

The union and company have already agreed to the terms of assimilation of NJI into NJA. It is not for any of us to talk about modifications of the Letter Of Agreement, a legal document, nor make false promises about its execution.

Whether or not people at NJI "like" NJA or its pilots is completely irrelevant. They can always quit and go to Hong Kong if they don't like unions.

The first bid is on the way.

 

[GVFlyer]

GV Flyer,

That may well have been an insurance provision for the operation of Gulfstreams, certainly not a regulatory requirement.

The 2500 hours in Gulfstreams and international captain qualification requirements for employment at EJI were established principally for Gulfstream Aerospace brand management and for marketing considerations as buyers would be guaranteed highly qualified international Gulfstream captains to pilot their jet.

If you were so instrumental in this set-up, what would have prevented you from hiring street captains at NJA to accomplish the same task?

If you check my post that you are referencing you will see that I stated that I played a peripheral part in setting up the EJI program - that means ancillary, not instrumental. I can, however, answer your question.

Gulfstream Aerospace is a profoundly anti-union company that moved from Beth Page, New York to Savannah, GA because of the lack of quality in the union workforce on Long Island and the perceived work ethic of the Georgia workers. Please note that unions have been soundly rejected by the workers at other quality manufacturers in the US such as Toyota, Honda, Mercedes and BMW.

Gulfstream set the pilot requirement for EJI and was able to do so because Richard Santulli was unable to afford the three core aircraft required to make EJI a reality. Gulfstream made EJI possible by providing these three core aircraft.

The actual hiring of EJI pilots was performed by EJI employees: Richard Schwartz, Peter Hanchak and Ray Roberts.

I can assure you that this was organized well above the pilot payscale and behind closed doors.

You're right. Richard Santulli, Jim Jacobs and David Orlinsky were signatories of the original Gulfstream- Executive Jet contract. Bill Boisture, Reanor Reavis, and Don Mayer (of the Mayer family in Oscar-Mayer) represented Gulfstream. I suggest you contact one of the NetJets representatives to confirm the facts of my posting. Now that David has retired he probably has time to take your call.

You're right about the comparisons of experience in 1998, but when you consider that the seniority numbers have more than doubled since then with crews that have been described at length in these posts, your arguments tend to fall apart.

Actually, I was talking about the EJA experience levels in 1995 when EJI was formed. The exception to scope in the 1998 CBA was actually the second time Local 284 affirmed the right for EJI to exist as a separate non-union entity.

I wasn't making an argument about anything, simply responding to an assertion that NJA pilots were more qualified than NJI pilots. NJI pilots that had 2500 hours in 40 ton jets in 1995 have certainly accrued more experience in the succeeding decade.

We all deserve respect, and the apparent offer of help from one your crews to the egos of people like Seaspray in getting hired will do nothing for the perception of your crews, in fact your latest post seems to reek of the same lack of humility.

My reeking post aside, who are you talking about? I didn't see any posts from NJI pilots - only a military pilot, a female civvie and a guy whose profile seems to indicate he's a United Technologies pilot. If you're a Boeing driver at Bradley, you probably know him.

GV







~

 

[GVFlyer]

Whoa, I think I know you. Don't you also hold like 12 different World Records in Aviation too?

Sounds like you might.

NJI will not be stapled to the bottom. Our Union will decide how it's done but we will no less do it equitably. None of us want to spend a week with someone who is pissed and feels they got the short end of the stick. I can imagine that there will be some sort of fence where NJI continues in their respective plane but if they want to bid our planes then they must compete from the bottom. They went to NJI to fly G-strings and as long as they remain in the equipment, then there will be protections.

I'm sure there are plenty of fine people over there. But we have hundreds of pilots at NJA now flying smaller equipment that have more international experience in their small toes than a combined handful at NJI. Imagine what it has been like to have many pilots leave EJA (NJA) for EJI (NJI) and look back while thumbing their noses saying we would never amount to anything and they wanted to go to the bigger airplanes. Then almost every encounter with an NJI sky god, it was like a small child sticking it's tongue back at you on the other side of bullet proof glass. Sure they all got to fly from home and were hired as an F/O making more than some of our most senior captains, instead of demonstrating some form of humility for us red headed step children, most of them obviously got off on letting us know Santulli hated us and our Union. Well the day of reckoning is upon us and I personally plan on taking the high road. But for the next few months and maybe even years, we all know that there is a three year clock on the wall at NJI and many of us are having a hard time hiding the euphoric emotions while watching karma unfold.

Thanks for your post and assurances that NJI would be treated equitably. I have a number of good friends there. You clearly stated your frustrations and the unfortunate way some at NJI treated you. I'm sure most pilots at NJI don't condone that behavior and wouldn't participate in it. Just like you, they're just trying to do their job and get through the day.

GV

 

[AA717driver]

GV--Acutally it's Bethpage, Long Island, not New Jersey. But your comment on the workforce was accurate...TC

 

[GVFlyer]

GV--Acutally it's Bethpage, Long Island, not New Jersey. But your comment on the workforce was accurate...TC

Thanks, you're right. I corrected my post. It's been a long time since I looked at the data plate on a G-II.

GV

 

[G4dude]

Regarding the belief of some NJA pilots that we at NJI think we are better pilots, in five years here I have NEVER heard any talk like that. However, we absolutely DO NOT want to join your stupid union. It is nothing against the fine pilots at NJA, I promise.