Freight dog vid...

[wrxpilot]

I thought this was pretty interesting:
http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=4142

Pretty amazing, I can't imagine flying in that stuff like that.

 

[EagleRJ]

Got known ice?

I've never flown a Commander, but I'd guess you need either a hot plate or alcohol windshield to be legal in that stuff.

 

[cargoflyr69]

Yeah, that TKS system is pretty snazzy. some days I really miss flying boxes....

 

[Bryan D]

Central Air Southwest, I always wondered what it was like flying around Michigan in the winter for $1500. a month in a Aero Commander.

 

[FN FAL]

Central Air Southwest, I always wondered what it was like flying around Michigan in the winter for $1500. a month in a Aero Commander.

I wouldn't want to do it. I have had lunch with those guys before, nice group of pilots, but I'd leave aviation before I'd do that for a living.

 

[UnstableAviator]

Judging by that big pilot watch he's obviously a fake and just another guy with Shiny Jet Syndrome.


But seriously, cool video. That TKS sure did a nice job.

 

[T-REX]

1000 times better than "A Kicka$s CRJ Flying Video" thread. Well done.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=60828

Was the camera mounted or was that one of the paying SIC req'd duties?

 

[taiar]

Having flown up in Northern Michigan for 4 winters in Cheiftens hauling checks and boxes I would say its some of the most kick a$$ flying and some of the best learning experiance one get.

My hat off to all the freight dogs...

Cool video.

 

[KigAir]

I feel sorry for the guy on the tractor pulling the plane out.

 

[dseagrav]

I feel sorry for the guy on the tractor pulling the plane out.

Yeah, what a lousy job. He doesn't even get to fly the airplane.

 

[RJPilott]

Not very smart if you ask me. Must be a recent grad with his first new job. Yeah, lets go taxi in unplowed snow drifts after coming out of a warm hangar where anything that is possible to freeze up the brakes or gear could happen. Then, after we do that, lets take a trip around the pattern with no windshield anti/de-ice just so we can make a video and scratch our fingernail through the "thick ice" (oh wait.. it was "hard ice"). Brilliant...lol.

Im in for 5 bucks that says this pilot doesnt make it past 3000TT if anyone wants to start a pool.

But hey, it was a cool video. Now i know what its like to be a jackass.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Not very smart if you ask me. Must be a recent grad with his first new job.

No, those 600 hour wonder grads are flying at the regionals. Probably yours. Takes a little more than that to fly freight, last I checked.

Yeah, lets go taxi in unplowed snow drifts after coming out of a warm hangar where anything that is possible to freeze up the brakes or gear could happen. Then, after we do that, lets take a trip around the pattern with no windshield anti/de-ice just so we can make a video and scratch our fingernail through the "thick ice" (oh wait.. it was "hard ice").

How do you know the hangar was warm?

A little snow never hurt anybody. Not everyone is cool enough to fly an RJ.

Im in for 5 bucks that says this pilot doesnt make it past 3000TT if anyone wants to start a pool.

But hey, it was a cool video. Now i know what its like to be a jackass.

Go back to your shiny jet.

 

[RJPilott]

Actually, our most junior FO has been with the company for almost 5 years. Im with Independence Air.


And it doesnt really matter if the hangar was warm or not (although, looking at that windshield freeze up in a matter of seconds on taxi, i think its safe to say the snow was melting then re-freezing on the windshield). Brakes also warm up just fine to splash all kinds of melted snow, just enough for it to freeze in the most unsuspecting places after rotation (what were the words used? oh yeah.. "hard ice"). Seen it happen many times, had it happen to me. Although we werent taxing in unplowed snow drifts at high taxi speed.

But i guess this flight is justified, had to get that cool video footage with all that "hard ice" on the windshield he landed with. He must be the next Bob Hoover... haha

 

[Thedude]

And it doesnt really matter if the hangar was warm or not (although, looking e the next Bob Hoover... haha

Actually is does matter. Ever heard of something called supercooling (in relation to airframes)?

If your a/c has the proper protection the effect can be negated but this guy did not even have a heated windshield or glycol dispenser (as far as we can tell). Kinda dumb in opinion.

 

[RJPilott]

If your a/c has the proper protection the effect can be negated but this guy did not even have a heated windshield or glycol dispenser (as far as we can tell). Kinda dumb in opinion.

Exactly. Type IV comes to mind.

Actually, if he had been in a cold hangar, the windshield probably wouldnt have frozen over as much. The snow would have just bounced off. However, that doesnt solve the problem for the gear as brakes are applied in snow drifts. I can only imagine what the upper surface of the wing and horizontal stab looked like after seeing that windshield freeze up like that on taxi. (uh.. hello? Mr Hoover...contamination check? Clean aircraft concept? do these words mean anything?)

It also looks like Mr Hoover decided on a high speed runway exit after landing. The whole airplane shook nicely as he hit the snow bank. I suppose thats one way to get off the runway into banks and drifts. lol

 

[PDH]

Sign me up for a regional. I have a wife and kids.

 

[EatSleepFly]

(although, looking at that windshield freeze up in a matter of seconds on taxi, i think its safe to say the snow was melting then re-freezing on the windshield).

Didn't see it freezing up on taxi. Must have missed it.

I didn't mean to jump on you. I don't think the video was made to boast, I think it looks like typical winter flying (with the exception of taking off with no W/S protection, and the highspeed exit off the runway).

I sure as heck wouldn't knowingly fly without something to protect the windshield. It's bad enough trying to land looking through that stupid little shoebox-sized hotplate at night with a 15 knot crosswind, let alone the little defrosted spot this guy had.

 

[RJPilott]

Watch as he starts his roll. Not for me, no thanks. And i have done many seasons in the Northeast and Southern Canada flying King Air's and Chieftains. Never did something like that.


His approach and landing reminds me of when my defroster didnt work on my beater cars. Leaning forward and side to side to peek out a 5 inch hole. This video should be in the YGBSM forum. lol

 

[CaravanMan]

Central Air's Commanders do have TKS for the windshield, but only the pilot's side.

 

[RJPilott]

Does Central Air have a clean aircraft concept in their ops specs? And if they do, what parts of the Commander are designated for contamination check prior to departure?

 

[duke600]

Does Central Air have a clean aircraft concept in their ops specs? And if they do, what parts of the Commander are designated for contamination check prior to departure?

The aircraft is clean in the takeoff. Look again.

 

[NoPax]

RJPILOTT...drop a sack and grow some eggs...this is normal winter on demand flying. I know the pilot, and the only issues I had with it were: two landing lights on during taxi, it says to use one in our manual tut tut, props RPM, and the fact the heater was on after crossing the FAF. I sense where this thread is being led by RJPilott so let me shed a little light on our accident record...

In twenty-five years, Central Air Southwest, has had 3 accidents involving 4 aircraft. One was a mid-air between two company airplanes, both pilots killed flying in formation (unauthorized of course); and the other two accidents were a result of flying in icing conditions in aircraft that were not approved for known ice. Both icing related accidents, the pilots walked away, and the aircraft had in excess of 3-4 inches of ice accumulated. The last accident was in 1993, and we haven't had one since, while averaging 15,000-20,000 hours per year - this info was supplied in the training manual.

As a result of two icing accidents the TKS system has been installed on all their aircraft (AC 500), and we are approved for Known Ice. During training we watch a video on icing procedures, and how the Commander faired during certification. The FAA in fact put the incorrect nozzle on their ice-making King Air, and as a result the icing was much greater than expected, yet the Commander still passed.

The windshield is only protected on the left side - those holes you could see on the left side - and we aren't allowed to use it during takeoff or landing, as it causes obscuration making it difficult to judge depth.

We have to check like all 135 operators allowed to operate in known ice, that the 'critical surfaces' ie wings, horizontal and vertical stabilizers, flight controls, and windshield are uncontaminated within 5 minutes prior to departure

Don't insult Mr. Hoover! I didn't see an 8 point hesitation roll, followed by a loop with one engine - could definately hear both turning when he taxied in. By the way, it was probably a mounted camera, the guy is an amateur photographer, and it was on regular route - you can't fly traffic patterns when its IFR...

Finally, there is no 'easy-button' on the aircraft - we hand fly them, and are approved for 1800RVR ops.

It's not for everyone I'll agree.

 

[Almerick07]

My old flight instructor is out flying cargo right now....Ohio to be exact. Just a couple more months of VFR up there, hope those Barons and Caravans are adaquately protected.

 

[Bryan D]

NoPax is right on Central Air Southwest's safety record is pretty darn good. I researched them about a week ago. Lost two planes in one accident because two jackarses were dog fighting. I wanted to go fly the Aero Commander but I can't make it work financially (thanks for the offer to interview Mr Towner). It would be a good opportunity for a young single person that is uninhibited to get some good operational multi experience.

 

[V1Cutt]

That takes me right back to my nights in the Aerostar hauling checks around the Northeast. Yeah, it's ballsy work, but this is the kind of thing that makes you the best pilot you can be, and you will be at the peak of proficiency when you get a few winters under your belt - I probably had 75 nights like that, and so did all of us freightdogs. It's called paying dues and I wish I had the flying skills now that I had to have then.

 

[CaravanMan]

I've been with the company (CASW) for close to 2 months now and everyone's been pretty good to me so far. The Commander's a nice airplane; very solid. On one of my legs the other night I flew probably 60-70nm without ever having to touch the controls (just an occasional rudder tap). Very stable, unlike anything I've ever flown. I'm looking forward to spending a winter in this with the TKS than another one in a Caravan! JT's a very nice guy, and everyone else around the company's really nice too. Yeah, the pay is a bit low, but it's a nice place to be; I'm happy. I'm fortunate to have a wife who can work and support me...that helps a lot.

 

[Gutenberg]

Looked like he was on an approach. At least he didn't have to slip to see the runway.

 

[RJPilott]

RJPILOTT...drop a sack and grow some eggs...this is normal winter on demand flying. I know the pilot, and the only issues I had with it were: two landing lights on during taxi, it says to use one in our manual tut tut, props RPM, and the fact the heater was on after crossing the FAF. I sense where this thread is being led by RJPilott so let me shed a little light on our accident record...

In twenty-five years, Central Air Southwest, has had 3 accidents involving 4 aircraft. One was a mid-air between two company airplanes, both pilots killed flying in formation (unauthorized of course); and the other two accidents were a result of flying in icing conditions in aircraft that were not approved for known ice. Both icing related accidents, the pilots walked away, and the aircraft had in excess of 3-4 inches of ice accumulated. The last accident was in 1993, and we haven't had one since, while averaging 15,000-20,000 hours per year - this info was supplied in the training manual.

As a result of two icing accidents the TKS system has been installed on all their aircraft (AC 500), and we are approved for Known Ice. During training we watch a video on icing procedures, and how the Commander faired during certification. The FAA in fact put the incorrect nozzle on their ice-making King Air, and as a result the icing was much greater than expected, yet the Commander still passed.

The windshield is only protected on the left side - those holes you could see on the left side - and we aren't allowed to use it during takeoff or landing, as it causes obscuration making it difficult to judge depth.

We have to check like all 135 operators allowed to operate in known ice, that the 'critical surfaces' ie wings, horizontal and vertical stabilizers, flight controls, and windshield are uncontaminated within 5 minutes prior to departure

Don't insult Mr. Hoover! I didn't see an 8 point hesitation roll, followed by a loop with one engine - could definately hear both turning when he taxied in. By the way, it was probably a mounted camera, the guy is an amateur photographer, and it was on regular route - you can't fly traffic patterns when its IFR...

Finally, there is no 'easy-button' on the aircraft - we hand fly them, and are approved for 1800RVR ops.

It's not for everyone I'll agree.

When you cant drop your gear because its frozen in the up position, be sure to note the amount of seat material stuck up your rear. So, do you guys have field contamination limits in your ops specs? How does one do a contamination check of all those surfaces from the cockpit? Or did your buddy shut down and get out for a pre-departure check at the hold short line. Could he even see the hold short line? lol

I probably have more time flying in winter ops than you have total. The pucker factor really hits home when you see your wheels (rubber and rim) ground down to a semi-circle.

By the way, you can fly a "pattern" IFR. Believe it or not, airports have "traffic patterns" when the field is IFR or VFR.. really, check it out. You dont have to go to another airport to get back when the wx is low. The statement of a "trip around the pattern" doesnt mean the field has to be VFR, as in talking to a fellow CFI or student. You'll learn that as you get more experience flying IMC... lol

So, what is starting pay and time requirements at Central Air?

 

[semperfido]

makes me appreciate my ride all the more....don't they have window heat in those things?

 

[CaravanMan]

makes me appreciate my ride all the more....don't they have window heat in those things?

TKS pilot's windshield...see previous posts.