Freedom callsign?

[jetdriven]

Mesa has no scope protection, therefore freedom is totally legal.

actually they do. but it says "all future flying for mesa airlines will use the mesa list."

except Freedom is part of the Mesa Air GROUP, which was concieved after the contract, and to get around the scope.

we didnt take anyones flying, USAIR management gave it to us. We are not owned by USAIR.

 

[jetdriven]

It was because of their greed that Orsteen(sp?) did what he did. In this economy the MESA pilots should have taken the pay rate originally offered.

acutally it wasnt the payrates so much as the workrules (nonexistent) and the fact we had to break ranks of the union and the seniority list to go there. 98% of MAG pilots turned it down. We'll get thise jets, but it'll be one contract and one llist.

just wait.

oh, and those payrates were 5% over the CJL-65 rate, which puts us flying a 90-seat jet for 15% less than Industry average for a 50-seater. You should be glad we didnt lower the bar for the regionals with rates like that. not to mention the 1.15 perdiem and no workrules.]

 

[Country Wild]

I have been in this industry a very long time and an ALPA member just as long. Aviation goes through its cycles, PFT, scabs...etc...etc. Everyone makes mistakes, but I think that there are too many people willing to fly for nothing and in times like this they will. If there would have been a driving force many many many years ago regional guys would be making better money. But there wasn't, and people will continue to fly for nothing to continue to fly. I think that many of low time individuals being hired at Freedom do not have a full grasp of the aviation as a whole. They do not realize what their actions might cause or the precedent that they may set. Many of you that are upset might do the same thing if it was between being a waiter or fly for Freedom, because jobs are so few and far between. When I have interviewed pilots I look to see who they flew for and how they got there. I prefer to hire well rounded pilots who are college graduates. Wether they flew for Freedom or were PFT is not relevant, but if the have a four year degree is. People are people, we have all made mistakes the secret is to learn from them not crucify them.

 

[becket]

Jetdriven,

Okay, so if US Airways managment gave you mainline flying, and that was okay with you, Why can't you draw the same connection that Mesa Managment is simply giving freedom more flying? Why is that not okay? To coin a phrase from you guys, you guys need to "wake up to the new economic reality". Freedom is cheaper. That's the bottom line. It was okay for US Airways to lose jobs to Mesa, and it is okay that Mesa is losing jobs to freedom and it will be okay when Freedom II takes jobs from Freedom I.

Basically, Mesa guys are fine flying everybody elses routes. They justify all of their flying because it suits their specific greedy desires. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, Freedom pilots are called scabs. Call it Karma. I remember reading endless whining about US Airways' scope clause. You guys are getting a crash course on why scope is important. My only question now is how long will it be before ornstein starts to transfer the 50 seaters over to freedom. There is nothing to stop him. It's all perfectly legal.

 

[azpilot]

Apparently Azpilot does not have a price tag on his soul, for his integrity he will be rewarded. In time he will get to flip the bird from the cockpit of a major airline at the same Freedumb pilot in the same RJ. What AZpilot understands is that there is such a thing as karma in such a small industry.

Glad someone agrees. Well put. If the industry keeps bringing wages down it will end up not being an attractive career for me and many others. What I think it is a fair rate may be low for some and to high for others so there is no point in debating that.

If enough people had a backbone Freedom could have never started. This would have meant Mesa would be flying these jets. The pilots at Mesa are already paid much less than other similar carriers so Freedom just makes things worse.

For me Freedom is wrong. As much as it would sadden me not to fly I will never work for an outfit like Freedom. I will never cross a picket line either. Folks the majority at the present time dislike Freedom. The winds may change but you are jeopardizing your career by flying for an outfit like that.

- AZPilot

 

[bobbysamd]

More non-P-F-T

Wisconsin, Skywest(yeah, the non union guys) and Horizon have NEVER been PFT.

I was a street interview at Mesa in 1990. Nothing about P-F-T. Also at WestAir/United Express, about the time that Mesa bought it. No P-F-T. I also was a street interview at Comair and a street cattle-callee at Express I. No P-F-T. I was an AE street interview in the fall of '90. No P-F-T. I had a colleague who was a Wings West hire. She was not P-F-T.

Just the same, there were still a bunch which were P-F-T. My recall of P-F-T history says it began with great force about the second quarter of 1991. That's when so many commuters, including Comair, adopted such "programs." It may have abated a little in 1994 and more so in the late '90s when the airlines decided they needed pilots again and had plenty from which to choose.

 

[Freight Dog]

So if I understand you right, the only way to get an airline job in the U.S. is to flight instruct??? If one doesn't "pay their dues" then they should be black-balled or shunned.

Flying4food,

I never instructed. I don't even have CFI ratings. Yet, I spent a lot of time on the Internet looking for jobs, making phone calls, trying to get ahead in this industry. I made it. I worked my way up thru flying skydivers, flying air tours, cargo, now at a regional in the left seat. NOT ONCE did I pay for flight time after my commercial pilot license. I got paid instead.


Some of you don't realize how good we have it in this free country, the ability to debate topics such as this, this right to get an education, it's all about choices. And to think that someone would sit on a hiring board and deliberatly sabotage someone's attempt at employment, based soley on an opinion!! Is that right?? To think you would deny a qualified person a chance at a job, not based on his/her qualifications and skills, but his/her training or how it was obtained, because you don't believe in it.

I would deny a person employment due to lack of integrity, you bet. If a Gulfstream B1900 "grad" was interviewing and I was the interviewer, I would ask him a couple of simple questions:

What did you contribute to your previous job? What positive contributions did you make to our profession?

I can bet you that a CFI would not have a difficult time answering these questions. I'll bet you that a Gulfstream guy would choke, but it would be interesting to watch them.

 

[Freight Dog]

You are right. It is. I didn't even think of it until you said it. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[captjim]

Way to go US Airways!


US Airways MEC update for Wednesday, December 18, with one new item:
The MEC reconvened its fourth quarter meeting today in PIT and took action on 15 items, including the following:

The MEC conducted an MEC vice chairman election and elected Captain Kim Snider as MEC vice chairman. Effective January 1, 2003, Captain Snider will succeed Captain Bill Pollock, who will assume the office of MEC chairman on that date. The remaining term is from January 1, 2003, to March 22, 2004.

The MEC directed the MEC officers and Negotiating Committee to inform US Airways management that the MEC, especially in light of our ALPA pilots’ significant financial contribution to the survival of US Airways, objects to any potential or contemplated code sharing arrangement with Freedom Air unless its pilots are represented by ALPA. The US Airways MEC supports the actions of ALPA International’s Executive Council and Executive Board in opposing the formation of Freedom Air as a non-union entity, and directed that all furloughed US Airways pilots be notified of the Executive Board, Executive Council and MEC’s opposition to Freedom Air. Any pilot on the US Airways seniority list that accepts employment with Freedom Air will lose all US Airways MEC-sponsored ALPA privileges, including but not limited to jumpseat, health insurance, web access, furlough administrator access, and ALPA-provided job search programs. If applicable, the US Airways MEC will file Article VIII charges against any US Airways seniority list pilot accepting or remaining in employment with Freedom Air after February 1, 2003, for engaging in action detrimental to the Association.

This MEC action is in response to Mesa’s establishment of Freedom Airlines as a non-union, alter ego runaway shop carrier, operating small jets on a separate operating certificate while the Mesa pilots are in contract negotiations. Mesa Group management is using Freedom Airlines to undermine the collective bargaining strength of the Mesa, CC Air and Air Midwest pilots.

 

[flying4food]

Wow, Freight Dog is that statement policy at your current employer or is that your personal position and stand?? That you would deny a person employment based on integrity of the pft question?? I wonder if the cheif pilot or director of Ops feels the same way?? What about the CEO and shareholders?? It sounds like you are making decisions for the company based on your personal feelings??

I would think that type of policy would be up to the management of said company. It seems as though you have taken it upon yourself to set policy and standards. Maybe you should look within for the answer to the integrity question???