Freedom Airline Jumpseat

[flying4food]

It seems so easy for SOME of you guys sitting at your airline jobs to pass judgement!!! To make threats and set new policies for your employers.

As C'rancher said, why don't you go to the source, the company and bark at them?? Why because they would bounce you right out of there!! Then, maybe then you would be labled the trouble maker that you are!!

It appears some of us have lost sight of the big picture!!

 

[Sabre60]

Freedumb Airlines

It seems so easy for SOME of you guys sitting at your airline jobs to pass judgement!!! To make threats and set new policies for your employers. I didn't realize that attempting to to give this person an answer to the asked question was "passing judgement". As for making threats and setting policy at my employer, I am VERY certain that absolutely nothing I could say would affect any decision made within the walls of the ivory tower.

Why because they would bounce you right out of there!! Then, maybe then you would be labled the trouble maker that you are!! Do tell??? I would be surprised if any of my companys'chief pilots knew I was even on the payroll I am so low profile...

It appears some of us have lost sight of the big picture!! No that is absolute CRAP. There are still alot of folks that would try to give this individual grief if he or she shows up at an interview with FREEDUMB AIRLINES on their resume. I personally would hate to see someone that appears to be so new to this industry harm themselves when this thing finally does turn around. I actually commend this individual for having the forethought to ask such an intelligent question. Whether or not they pursue FREEDUMB is their own choice, but at least they took the time to ask.

 

[AirBoard]

Hey Guys, can someone tell me why someone with very low time such as myself would give up the chance to fly crj700 and 900's. We all have the passion to fly and get the time by any means necessary. Each man has to look at himself and evaluate his own situation. I personally think it will be a while until the grass turn anywhere close to green on the other side (majors). If they gave me a chance as of now I would strongly consider the job. Freedom guy should have no shame. Good luck guys.

WRONG! You need to take a closer look at this rapidly changing regional industry before you comment like that. Freedumb type airlines are bad for our long term job security and pay. Just looking at it like a stepping stone to the Majors is narrowminded. The Majors are in rough shape and things are changing. You might not move on to the Majors so you better find yourself a decent regional job with decent pay and respectability.

Or, you can hop on the Freedumb bandwagon and fly the -900; allowing extra room for your head to expand at the same time. A few years down the road you'll still be flying the -900 for the same sub standard wages you began with. Then you'll ask yourself why you helped out a company that's lowering the bar for all of us at no benefit to yourself whatsoever. Lose - lose situation anyway you look at it. Find an ALPA rep and have them explain it to you.

 

[sonic340]

Counldn't have said it any better Airboard!

 

[Idiot Police]

Hey Guys, can someone tell me why someone with very low time such as myself would give up the chance to fly crj700 and 900's. We all have the passion to fly and get the time by any means necessary. Each man has to look at himself and evaluate his own situation. I personally think it will be a while until the grass turn anywhere close to green on the other side (majors). If they gave me a chance as of now I would strongly consider the job. Freedom guy should have no shame. Good luck guys.

Three books they should have given you when you over paid for your training: Rapid Descent, Flying the Line, and Flying the Line part Two. If you dont get it after reading these then you are not going to get it.

And you'll have plenty of time to think about it from JAIL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[j41driver]

ALPA's take on Freedumb

From ALPA.org:

Are you considering applying for a job with Freedom Airlines? If so, think again. ALPA urges all furloughed pilots to consider the facts and their own futures before applying for or accepting a job at Freedom Airlines. Working for Freedom Air is bad for the piloting profession and it’s a gamble for your own career.

Accepting work with Freedom Airlines is detrimental to all Mesa Air Group pilots. ALPA’s position is that Freedom Airlines is an alter-ego, runaway shop carrier created by Mesa Air Group specifically to undermine the collective bargaining strength, working conditions, and career aspirations of Mesa Airlines pilots. Mesa Air Group is using Freedom Air to intimidate and threaten Mesa Airlines pilots with the transfer of work opportunities as a means of dictating pilot pay and working conditions.

BACKGROUND
Under Ornstein’s control, Mesa Air Group operates the three wholly owned subsidiary carriers, Mesa Airlines, Air Midwest, and CCAir. The Mesa and Air Midwest pilots work under a single contract and a single pilot seniority list. In other words, Mesa and Air Midwest are a single pilot group.

Mesa Air Group is attempting to establish Freedom Airlines as a non-union carrier operating 70- and 90-seat jets on a separate operating certificate. At the same time, the Mesa Airlines pilots are in contract negotiations, seeking much-needed improvements in their compensation, retirement, and working conditions. Contract negotiations have been stalled by management are going extremely slowly. In fact, ALPA has filed a lawsuit asking the federal court to compel management to bargain in good faith as outlined by the Railway Labor Act.

When you are considering your next career move, consider the following facts:

· Freedom Airlines is a non-union airline. Freedom pilots will not have the protections and benefits of union representation or a union contract. Freedom pilots would be at-will employees subject to the whims of management’s decisions. Pilots would not have representation in disciplinary actions and would be subject to unilateral changes in their compensation, benefits, and working conditions.

· The status of Freedom Airlines is subject to challenge in litigation brought by ALPA. The Association is alleging that Mesa Air Group’s use of Freedom Airlines to undermine the collective bargaining position of the Mesa pilots is a violation of the Railway Labor Act. In the ongoing lawsuit, ALPA is asking the federal court to enjoin Mesa Air Group from operating Freedom Airlines.

· ALPA will also challenge Mesa Air Group’s ability to manage labor relations at Freedom Airlines separately from those of its other carriers. The National Mediation Board has already upheld the Association’s assertion that Mesa Airlines, Air Midwest, and CCAir are, in fact, a single carrier for collective bargaining purposes. If Freedom Airlines does begin operations, ALPA will seek a similar "single-carrier" ruling from the NMB as it applies to Freedom.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Mesa Guys-Gals,
I heard floating around the system that you guys don't stay at the same hotels as the freedum pilots, because of all the fisticuffs going on.
Truth or Urban legand?
PBR

 

[100LL... Again!]

Riddlebrat-

I understand your feelings in wanting to get ahead in this profession. Why not do it in a way that is respected by the bulk of us dues-paying pilots? Instructing is unglamorous to many, but you will learn a lot if you instruct with the idea of LEARNING, instead of BUILDING TIME. Do you feel at your experience level you really deserve a job flying this type of aircraft?

 

[Riddlebratt]

Its not that i discount flight instructing because that is what I'm working on now... The only thing I see happening is that Freedom will be brought under the current management of the Mesa Air Group. The pilots that are now at Freedom will continue to Fly the 700 & 900's. That is the kink that is stalling negotiations now. Soon it will all iron itself out. And Yes without a question I deserve to fly an airplane of this size. Are you telling me that because I only have 600 logged hrs that I cannot fly this aircraft....Other pilots from my school do it everyday with only 300hrs. @ACA as well as ASA. Riddle Pilots are the best!!!!!!!!!

 

[WileE]

Hey Guys, can someone tell me why someone with very low time such as myself would give up the chance to fly crj700 and 900's. We all have the passion to fly and get the time by any means necessary. Each man has to look at himself and evaluate his own situation. I personally think it will be a while until the grass turn anywhere close to green on the other side (majors). If they gave me a chance as of now I would strongly consider the job. Freedom guy should have no shame. Good luck guys.

OK. Let's disregard all the arguments on how Freedom is bad for the profession, other pilots and all that stuff because some people just don't buy into unions and the only concern in their book is screw anyone else, how is it bad for ME?

Now how is Freedom bad for YOU, not how it's bad for all professional pilots. A couple things:

1. Freedom is a temporary thing. Adolph Orenstein has already caved on Scope and one seniority list which means that in short order (which is probably 4-6 months, short in airline negotiation terms) Freedom pilots will be coming back to work under the Mesa seniority list. You will come back into the seniority list as your hire date, which means you will be junior to EVERYONE else at Mesa down to the most junior 1900 FO sitting reserve in Philly. For anyone who hasn't clued into what really matters in the airline bid, seniority is EVERYTHING.

2. You won't get to keep all the things Johnny O promised you to come over to Freedom in the first place. Your salary will be back to the Mesa contract, whatever that is after Section 6 is done. You probably won't get the bonus you were promised (you had no union to rep you at Freedom so who will pay for the lawyers to fight for it in court, you? yeah right)

3. When you come back you will not stay in the jet. The way it's going to work out is you will return to hold only the equipment that you are senior enough to hold and guess what, that means you will be in the right seat of a beech for years, not the right seat of a jet.

4. Even if by some fluke of fate the union drops the ball and signs an agreement that lets you stay in the same equipment that you were in in at Freedom (and why on earth would they do that and what's in it for Johnny O to fight for you? You want to count on him? HA!). You will be the most junior guy on the jets for years and years and years. You won't be senior enough to bid captain for probably 6-9 years at the rate things are going, and since you are already in the jet you won't be able to bid down to lesser equipment to get CA. You are going to sit reserve at the crappiest base in the system for EVER.

5. If you ever get an interview at another union carrier, you better pray they don't find out you worked for Freedom. IF they do (and the rosters for Freedom are already public knowledge) you'll be sure to get a "Thanks but no thanks." letter from HR every **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** time. The upside to this is that in 10 or 15 years you will be at the top of Mesa's seniority list along with all the other former Freedom pilots that are also still stuck at the company. FINALLY you can hold a hard line in the jet. Woo HOO!

6. Once you are back in Mesa for your foreseeable future you will fly with a captain who despises you. Think that's going to be fun?

There are other reasons out there, but I think that's enough of a rant for now. As an alternative to all that, fly as a CFI for a while longer, building time and if you still want to work at Mesa, come to work for the company after J4J goes through and they need to hire two to three hundred new pilots to go along with the two to three hundred U.S. Air mainline pilots that will be flying all the new RJ's for Mesa.

J4J is a whole seperate issue now. Love it or hate it, it's going through at Mesa, period. It and scope is the only thing set in stone from the TA right now.

 

[inthepool]

Riddlebratt, please get your facts straight. While I agree that at 600 hours you could probably handle a right seat job in a jet, it is NOT true that 300 hour pilots from Riddle are flying for ACA or ASA. The ASA program no longer exists, and ACA's minimums for "bridge program" pilots are 600 and 100. As for Freedom Airlines, I disagree vehemently with their management etc. but I would never deny another pilot a trip home because I disagree with him on a political level.

 

[bobbysamd]

Flamebait

Hey Guys, can someone tell me why someone with very low time such as myself would give up the chance to fly crj700 and 900's. We all have the passion to fly and get the time by any means necessary. Each man has to look at himself and evaluate his own situation. I personally think it will be a while until the grass turn anywhere close to green on the other side (majors). If they gave me a chance as of now I would strongly consider the job. Freedom guy should have no shame. Good luck guys.

I'm sure glad that you weren't one of my Riddle students. If, indeed, you really went to ERAU and are not

F L A M E B A I T.

You can join a couple of your alums at Freedom.

I hate posts like this one. I had any number of students at Riddle who were good pilots and excellent people. Including a former Mesa Chief Pilot, who did not prance over to Freedom.

Posts like this "gentleman's" give the good ERAU grads a bad name.

 

[Simon Says]

Riddle.........HA..... What a joke. No doubt there are many fine aviators that come out of the school, but it wasn't the school that made them fine aviators. Riddle Bratt..........that is just what you are........a Bratt. Get your skinny arse into the real world for a little while and then come to me and tell me how it is.

ERAU is a giant bubble. It is not real world flying. They pump you all up and how it is, and then they graduate all of these newby pilots and release them to the hounds.

Come on pretty boy and flame me.

Your right Bobby.....this guy gives them a bad name.

 

[Simon Says]

Oh by the way........it will be a cold day in heII before I would let a Freedom scumbag ride on my jumpseat.

 

[Riddlebratt]

Inthepool, Bobby,N9103M, and Simonsays......you guys are the reason why pilots have the label as being arogant in the real world. You cannot attack someones beliefs. Fact be it is that I am already a Union member and respect you right to protest. In saying that I also respect the way you feel for the Union that didnt give a d*mn about you or your regional carrier before Sep 11th. But maybe through these nogotiations Alpa can step up to the plate and become one of the better unions and join the ranks of the Teamsters and my very own UAW. Now that we are talking about Riddle....I am very proud to be a Graduate of ERAU. Other than the birth of my children that was the best day of my life receiving that degree...... I noticed you guys have pride in several things such as the Denver Broncos as Well as United Parcel Service. I NEVER THOUGHT A SIMPLE QUESTION WOULD BRING OUT SO MANY NEGITIVE COMMENTS