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Freedom Airline Jumpseat

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Alter Egos and Non-Unions and flying air

Riddlebratt said:
N9103M Once again I will tell you I deserve the opportunity to fly a aircraft such as the 700 and 900 because I feel that I can do so. But you are right it does sound a little arrogant. You sure know how to welcome someone. I still enjoy this board. thats the reason why I Joined here...to get both sides of the story.

Bobbysamd Don't be misunderstood about my intensions. I intend on getting all the info possible about this airline before passing judgement. I have been a UAW member for 10yrs....If there is one single thing you will learn is that you must evaluate things for yourself vs depending on a union to get things done for you. My Father was an Eastern Airlines Pilot whom DID NOT cross the picket line and eventually lost his job as well. He places blame on the union as well as Lorenzo. I would never cross a picket line. But until there is a picket line you cannot have a scab.
I'd like to address both points.

I'd like to think that I, too, could fly an RJ if I got current again. The RJ is an airplane, plain and simple (but, to me, what a ride it would be! :) ). That's what we do. Fly airplanes. If you've been taught how to fly properly, i.e. taught the correct thought processes, any competent pilot can fly any airplane. Look at it another way. Some of the first B707 airline pilots in the late '50s likely were flying open cockpit airmail, Fords, DC-2s and DC-3s during the early part of their careers. Great airplanes, but rudimentary by today's standards. They learned. Kinda gives you pause, doesn't it?

In that light, not too many of these early airline pilots hopped into airliners at low time. They paid their dues, and how. Flying open-cockpit airmail. Flight instructing. Flying in hazardous VFR. They sure got their experience before they were hired.

No one feels that you don't deserve the opportunity. Take it from me, everyone deserves an opportunity, but not strictly because you are a Riddle graduate, or U.N.D. grad, or LeTourneau U. grad, or FSI grad, or Mesa grad, ad infinitum while those who learned how to fly at their local FBO or from their friendly instructor are lesser beings. After reading your newer posts I cannot say that this is you, but I knew a number of Riddlers during my time there who exhibited boundless arrogance. You deserve an opportunity because you merit the opportunity.

Once more, my friend, I urge you to read some airline history books, such as Flying the Line. Also read up on how Uncle Frank started up non-union New York Air. I believe that Al Feldman (?) tried the same thing when he tried to launch Frontier Horizon as an alter-ego to Frontier. That was an alter-ego, just as Jonny L. (intentional) has started Freedom. Go talk to your dad and ask him.

One more book that you might enjoy and learn from is Fate Is The Hunter by Ernest Gann.

Once more, best of luck, and consider carefully your career steps.
 
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Jeepman said:
[ I'm sorry but I am not gonna let some guy board my plane to go to work & back for a company that is "Free" for management & "DUMB" for pilots.]

I just have to ask if you're also turning down the management pilots from MESA that show up wanting to jump?
 
Ziggy1


If they are on our Freedom pilot list then they are DENIED!
 
Just out of curiousity.. what about if the shoe is on the other foot? Say you're trying to get from Phoenix to Fresno, and the only airline that does that route is Freedom. Your options: 1) Catch a jumpseat on the airline that you deny jumpseats to, or 2) rent a car and make the 600 mile drive. Just wondering how many people would gladly hop a free ride while denying their pilots the same courtesy.

Don't get me wrong. I'm against Freedom and what the airline stands for. I live in Phoenix, and am out of a 121 job right now (and probably for a very long time), and the thought never crossed my mind to look into them. Hell, I'm having too much fun flyin' dusters out of Eloy! Regards everyone.
 
SkySpray said:
Just out of curiousity.. what about if the shoe is on the other foot? Say you're trying to get from Phoenix to Fresno, and the only airline that does that route is Freedom. Your options: 1) Catch a jumpseat on the airline that you deny jumpseats to, or 2) rent a car and make the 600 mile drive. Just wondering how many people would gladly hop a free ride while denying their pilots the same courtesy.

Don't get me wrong. I'm against Freedom and what the airline stands for. I live in Phoenix, and am out of a 121 job right now (and probably for a very long time), and the thought never crossed my mind to look into them. Hell, I'm having too much fun flyin' dusters out of Eloy! Regards everyone.

To bad Southwest doesn't go to Fresno! Here's a weird glitch on Travelocity. Flight 6715 operated by Air Montreal for America West.

I would find some other way to get there even if it was a pain in the butt.

That's just me. Hopefully if the TA is approved Freedumb will be gone.

- AZPilot
 
I assume you're talking about the America West TA? From what I'm hearing, it sounds like it will most likely be voted down.
 
SkySpray said:
I assume you're talking about the America West TA? From what I'm hearing, it sounds like it will most likely be voted down.

No, I was talking about Mesa's. The new Mesa TA calls for one list including bringing back CC Air pilots. I had heard the America West TA might call for all contract carriers to be union but I am not sure of that. I have also heard that it might get voted down. We'll have to wait and see.
 
HomerJay I resent your remarks about Riddle. As a Riddle graduate I don't consider myself an arrogant or aloof pilot. What I do know is that I got a helluva good education at Riddle. While the flight training was not as good as it could have been, the classroom study was top-notch. I am not the greatest pilot, but I'm a better pilot for having gone to Riddle. Yes, it was expensive, but in my mind it was worth every penny. Do you have a four year degree? If so, where from and what in? If you don't, I suggest you try one before discounting it as worthless.
 
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"...certainly does not give me the right to alienate the people who have worked harder to get where they are because I want to fly a jet right now. "
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EXACTLY! Sometimes, someone wants something SO badly that they begin to feel that they deserve it so much more than others.


Riddlebrat-

There are 'trainee' FOs and 'pilot' FOs Wouldn't you rather get into that seat when you possess a substantial portion of the skills, instead of the barest minimum?

None of these low time bridge programs should EVER have been allowed. Like Freedom, PFT, or whatever, they do NOTHING to help further the profession. As pilots, we have sold ourselves out allowing these programs to exist.
 
And another thing-

Pointing at where you went to school and thinking that this in some way gives you some sort of elite status is really weak.

Every school has turned out its share of boneheads who shouldn't even have a private certificate.

Holding up your diploma is almost like hiding behind it.

Let's see how you fly and how much you know. Pointing at your 'training' is like saying your dad can beat up my dad. Maybe he can, but does that mean that YOU can beat ME up? Now that just depends, pardner.
 

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