freedom 900 agreement terminated

[Big Foot]

OK can we get back to Mesa Sucking

 

[777forever]

Clear enough evidence that giving the vote to 18 year olds was a mistake. Should have gone the other way and pushed it back to 30, maybe 40.

And ignorant 40 year old airline pilots will vote for the most dangerous man to the airline profession since Lorenzo to be President of the United States

 

[homerjdispatch]

Skywest stopped hiring last month and are offering early retirements as well as LOA's for up to a year

And yet the hiring board shows F.O. positions open???? Heard the early leaves were an employee group request and few are being granted!

 

[Andy Neill]

Don't forget that Exxon paid $38 BILLION in taxes to make the $11 Billion profit (off of $138 Billion in revenue). I'm sure Obama failed to mention that when he announced his plan to 'tax' the $11 billion.

I'd be interested in your source for the $38 billion in taxes. That would require a taxation rate of 78%. In other words if they had $49 BIllion income before taxes and paid 78% in taxes, that would result in $11 Billion net income.

The amount of federal income tax they paid was probably closer to $5.9 billion which is 35% of $16.9 billion before taxes. Then again....a billion here and a billion there....well pretty soon it adds up to quite a sum of money.

 

[Speedtape]

Joe,


I still wounder how random thoughts in your mind become facts.


Currently the 12 years pay rate at Delta = a 16 years pay rate at ASA. The only reason ASA's current pay rate exceed Delta's is that they have extended CA pay rates out to 20 years and worse they have taken these raises out of the FO rates which stop increasing after 8 years.


Your statement on perspective is also very telling. The probationary FO pay at Delta is greater than the 8 year FO pay scale at ASA. And, Delta's year 5 pay rate for FOs is just slightly more than CA pay at ASA for the same equipment. So for the few people (like you) who are very senior you make a few extra dollars per hour will collectively hosing the rest of the pilot group. (All for one, and more for me.)


Now to get on with the "facts." Lets look at just pay rates without taking into account workrules and th e 11% DC/401k contributions that are increasing to 14% over the next few years.
Pay rates are for 20 year CA and 8 years FOs at ASA and 12 year CAs and FOs at Delta.


January 09
ASA 104.65 / 45.60
Delta 103.57 / 70.71


January 10
ASA 105.70 / 46.05
Delta 107.67 / 73.54


January 11
ASA 106.76 / 46.51
Delta 111.98 / 76.48


January 12
ASA starts 5 more yrs neg. with pay frozen
Delta 116.46 / 79.54


In January 10 a 12 year M88 FO will make the same as an ASA 20 year 76 seat CA.


In January 11 a 12 year DC9 FO will make the same as an ASA 20 years 76 seat CA.

imp:

Your argument is comparing Apples to Oranges! What does a 5th year Plastic Surgeon make? If you knew, it would make you rethink your aviation career. It would make about as much sense to try and make that argument!

Secondly, your allegation that Joe, and other Senior ASA pilots, are hosing the F/O's because there is only an 8 year scale for F/O's is very flawed! How many 8 year F/O's does ASA have? Maybe, 2, and they could have bid Captain at 2-3 years of employment, but for personal reasons, chose to stay F/O's! Most pilots at ASA have upgraded by 5 years. Why establish a pay scale beyond 8 years, or for that matter, 5 years?

Compare ASA pay scales to other regional airlines--apples to apples! You'll see that ASA F/O's rates are at the top--primarily because most Senior pilots supported the F/O pay rates be maintained at 60% of the Captain rate for the same longevity.

Good Luck at Delta. Oh by the way, because of a new negotiated piece in our contract, should you get furloughed, Delta pilots get preferential interviews. And if hired, they keep their Delta number, because Joe Merchant, and other Senior pilots at ASA supported it and felt it was the right thing to do! And by the way, that was not free to him or others to memorialize! It probably cost him something that could be equated to money!

 

[Smacktard]

I'd be interested in your source for the $38 billion in taxes. That would require a taxation rate of 78%. In other words if they had $49 BIllion income before taxes and paid 78% in taxes, that would result in $11 Billion net income.

The amount of federal income tax they paid was probably closer to $5.9 billion which is 35% of $16.9 billion before taxes. Then again....a billion here and a billion there....well pretty soon it adds up to quite a sum of money.

According to CNN, Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income of $11.68 billion on revenue of $138 billion in the second quarter. That profit works out to $1,485.55 a second....
In addition to making hefty profits, Exxon also had a hefty tax bill. Worldwide, the company paid $10.5 billion in income taxes in the second quarter, $9.5 billion in sales taxes, and over $12 billion in what it called 'other taxes.'"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/?postversion=2008073110

That good enough?

 

[vprMatrix]

!

Your argument is comparing Apples to Oranges! What does a 5th year Plastic Surgeon make? If you knew, it would make you rethink your aviation career. It would make about as much sense to try and make that argument!

So Mainline pilots are “Plastic Surgeons” in comparison to Regional pilots, which are just MDs? Interesting.

Secondly, your allegation that Joe, and other Senior ASA pilots, are hosing the F/O's because there is only an 8 year scale for F/O's is very flawed! How many 8 year F/O's does ASA have? Maybe, 2, and they could have bid Captain at 2-3 years of employment, but for personal reasons, chose to stay F/O's! Most pilots at ASA have upgraded by 5 years. Why establish a pay scale beyond 8 years, or for that matter, 5 years?

Ah, so ASA is only a career airline if you are a Captain. What happens now that the explosive growth of the regional airlines has stopped? Can’t you look beyond the past? Things will be different and CA upgrades won’t be as quickly as they have been but it is ok because you've got yours even if your FO has to take one for the team.

By your logic it would not have cost anything to negotiate 20 year FO pay anyway because no one would use it right?

Compare ASA pay scales to other regional airlines--apples to apples! You'll see that ASA F/O's rates are at the top--primarily because most Senior pilots supported the F/O pay rates be maintained at 60% of the Captain rate for the same longevity.

Comparing yourself to other regional airlines you’ve done a good job.

FO rates are 60% for up to 8 years, but then again there will never be an 8 year regional FO or a Captain who has to bid down for a medical, training, or any other issue. So, you got that going for you.

Good Luck at Delta. Oh by the way, because of a new negotiated piece in our contract, should you get furloughed, Delta pilots get preferential interviews. And if hired, they keep their Delta number, because Joe Merchant, and other Senior pilots at ASA supported it and felt it was the right thing to do! And by the way, that was not free to him or others to memorialize! It probably cost him something that could be equated to money!

Let’s see, you negotiated preferential interviews for Delta pilots in you contract. Could that possibly have anything to do with the Delta PWA establishing a protocol for DCI pilots to receive preferential hiring at Delta for carriers that also reciprocated hiring for Delta furloughed pilots. Oh, and it also stipulates that the Delta pilot not be required to resign his Delta seniority number.

Of course ASA was exempt from mandatory participation in this program, unlike several other DCI carriers, but I do appreciate the “something that could be equated to money” that it cost you to get preferential hiring at Delta. This is some sacrifice for your voluntary participation in the preferential hiring program DALPA negotiated for you.

 

[Andy Neill]

According to CNN, Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income of $11.68 billion on revenue of $138 billion in the second quarter. That profit works out to $1,485.55 a second....
In addition to making hefty profits, Exxon also had a hefty tax bill. Worldwide, the company paid $10.5 billion in income taxes in the second quarter, $9.5 billion in sales taxes, and over $12 billion in what it called 'other taxes.'"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/?postversion=2008073110

That good enough?

Thanks for the reference. The only part of that I would refute would be the $9.5 billion in sales taxes. The customer pays those taxes and the company passes it along to the appropriate agencies. That is like my last employer saying the $3600 they paid in FICA taxes on my salary was an employee benefit.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Thanks for the reference. The only part of that I would refute would be the $9.5 billion in sales taxes. The customer pays those taxes and the company passes it along to the appropriate agencies. That is like my last employer saying the $3600 they paid in FICA taxes on my salary was an employee benefit.

Not a benefit, just part of "total comensation"....Haha I cant understand how people buy into that!

 

[Erlanger]

Four pages and I am the first to mention SkyWest? I surely missed it somewhere....I mean they are still hiring pilots according to the job posting board,( doesnt make sense) they currently fly the CRJ 9. Dont count them out for a piece of the freedum pie!

The President of Skywest was asked that question in a meeting yesterday. He says that Skywest is definitely not getting that flying. He didn't say if he knew who was though.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Your argument is comparing Apples to Oranges! What does a 5th year Plastic Surgeon make? If you knew, it would make you rethink your aviation career. It would make about as much sense to try and make that argument!

Secondly, your allegation that Joe, and other Senior ASA pilots, are hosing the F/O's because there is only an 8 year scale for F/O's is very flawed! How many 8 year F/O's does ASA have? Maybe, 2, and they could have bid Captain at 2-3 years of employment, but for personal reasons, chose to stay F/O's! Most pilots at ASA have upgraded by 5 years. Why establish a pay scale beyond 8 years, or for that matter, 5 years?

Compare ASA pay scales to other regional airlines--apples to apples! You'll see that ASA F/O's rates are at the top--primarily because most Senior pilots supported the F/O pay rates be maintained at 60% of the Captain rate for the same longevity.

Good Luck at Delta. Oh by the way, because of a new negotiated piece in our contract, should you get furloughed, Delta pilots get preferential interviews. And if hired, they keep their Delta number, because Joe Merchant, and other Senior pilots at ASA supported it and felt it was the right thing to do! And by the way, that was not free to him or others to memorialize! It probably cost him something that could be equated to money!

Here is an apple for an apple - Delta pilots fly airplanes with Delta colors on it. ASA flies airplanes with Delta colors on it. Your post insinuates that you actually think life is better at ASA than Delta. You could not say a more insulting thing to an airline pilot, ALL of us. Every regional pilot being paid "close to mainline pay" is flying a job that SHOULD be mainline, with all their benefits and retirement, instead of minimum-wage welfare pilots like all regional whores are.

Your luxury of a contract can change in a heart beat. Your flying is based solely at the discretion of Delta. You think other airlines would not think twice of stealing your flying if they thought they could bid and win it? Open your eyes and look around.

The fact that the majors' pay is getting closer to the regionals (it is NOT the regionals getting close to the majors) is a SAD story for all of us. You are relishing in it and you are part of the problem - just like the rest of us.

Keep things in perspective. Appreciate the job you have, and the pay you have, because if the airline owners have anything to say about it, it's gonna change, and not in the direction you want. Just ask any major pilot or the tens of thousands that are on the streets now, and the other 10,000 that will be on the streets in the next 24 months.

And if McCain is voted President, it's only going to get MUCH worse. Just had to throw that in there. We couldn't have a more anti-Union, or anti-airline pilot person for President. Vote for your career.

 

[Erlanger]

Here is an apple for an apple - Delta pilots fly airplanes with Delta colors on it. ASA flies airplanes with Delta colors on it. Your post insinuates that you actually think life is better at ASA than Delta. You could not say a more insulting thing to an airline pilot, ALL of us. Every regional pilot being paid "close to mainline pay" is flying a job that SHOULD be mainline, with all their benefits and retirement, instead of minimum-wage welfare pilots like all regional whores are.

Your luxury of a contract can change in a heart beat. Your flying is based solely at the discretion of Delta. You think other airlines would not think twice of stealing your flying if they thought they could bid and win it? Open your eyes and look around.

The fact that the majors' pay is getting closer to the regionals (it is NOT the regionals getting close to the majors) is a SAD story for all of us. You are relishing in it and you are part of the problem - just like the rest of us.

Keep things in perspective. Appreciate the job you have, and the pay you have, because if the airline owners have anything to say about it, it's gonna change, and not in the direction you want. Just ask any major pilot or the tens of thousands that are on the streets now, and the other 10,000 that will be on the streets in the next 24 months.

And if McCain is voted President, it's only going to get MUCH worse. Just had to throw that in there. We couldn't have a more anti-Union, or anti-airline pilot person for President. Vote for your career.

It's sad is exactly right. Next thing you know, the regionals will say that the pay between the two is disproportionate and regional pay has to go down.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Good point.

You know? the major pilots could fix this if they'd concede and fly those jets for lower wages and get the damn airplanes back on their property where they belong. Thing is, the major shareholders probably won't EVER let that happen, they are enjoying whipsawing all the regional carriers against each other and getting them to fly for absolutely NO money and NO benefits out of their pockets.

Why pay for a professional lawn service when you have two immigrants with their stolen lawn mower and no green card to mow your yard for 1/10th the price?

The major pilots were too proud to fly baby jets, scoped them away having no idea that there'd be just as many if not more of them than there is "big iron", and now in our economy, the regionals are hiring and the majors are furloughing.

There is always the problem of too many whores who will fly for food, however if it's gonna happen, they should make it happen on THEIR property for THEIR pilots than for letting the Ornsteins in the world jerk EVERYBODY's chains.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Good point.

You know? the major pilots could fix this if they'd concede and fly those jets for lower wages and get the damn airplanes back on their property where they belong. Thing is, the major shareholders probably won't EVER let that happen, they are enjoying whipsawing all the regional carriers against each other and getting them to fly for absolutely NO money and NO benefits out of their pockets.

Why pay for a professional lawn service when you have two immigrants with their stolen lawn mower and no green card to mow your yard for 1/10th the price?

The major pilots were too proud to fly baby jets, scoped them away having no idea that there'd be just as many if not more of them than there is "big iron", and now in our economy, the regionals are hiring and the majors are furloughing.

There is always the problem of too many whores who will fly for food, however if it's gonna happen, they should make it happen on THEIR property for THEIR pilots than for letting the Ornsteins in the world jerk EVERYBODY's chains.

Hulas is no better!

 

[Dannone]

Why would ASA or Comair be considered vultures? They were the only connection carriers before all these other companies came in and under bid as a direct result of Comair guys having the balls to strike and make a stand. Anything that goes back to ASA or Comair is where it should be to begin with. Anyone who works for Pinnacle or Mesa is the problem. You continue to allow yourselves to be treated like $hit and we should all pay? I had A Mesa guy tell me the other day that Comair pilots need to get their pay rates in line. What!!! In line with what your pay rates. I almost ripped the guys head off! An Air Tran guy had to calm me down. This after he had a pay reduction forced on him. Here is to Mesa and Pinnacle both going down!!!!

 

[imacdog]

Good point.

You know? the major pilots could fix this if they'd concede and fly those jets for lower wages and get the damn airplanes back on their property where they belong. Thing is, the major shareholders probably won't EVER let that happen, they are enjoying whipsawing all the regional carriers against each other and getting them to fly for absolutely NO money and NO benefits out of their pockets.

Why pay for a professional lawn service when you have two immigrants with their stolen lawn mower and no green card to mow your yard for 1/10th the price?

The major pilots were too proud to fly baby jets, scoped them away having no idea that there'd be just as many if not more of them than there is "big iron", and now in our economy, the regionals are hiring and the majors are furloughing.

There is always the problem of too many whores who will fly for food, however if it's gonna happen, they should make it happen on THEIR property for THEIR pilots than for letting the Ornsteins in the world jerk EVERYBODY's chains.

Yeah kinda sucks for the major pilots doesn't it? Oh well, they made their bed, they can lie in it now. Perhaps Delta pilots can raise the bar to 90 seats in their next contract? They have such a good record of not caving on scope you know.

 

[imacdog]

Could you have this thing up and running by X date? All of them said no, except JO. He said hell yes we could make it happen, no sweat. He then goes out and leases all the Dash-8 airframes he can get his hands on and spends a fortune on getting them airworthy. But to his credit in the end he was able to pull it off.

No he didn't. The Dash-8 operation at JFK was always a joke. Good riddance to that too.

 

[flyboyike]

No he didn't. The Dash-8 operation at JFK was always a joke. Good riddance to that too.

Amen to that!

 

[Flyer1015]

You've done that for many years.

...... said a former CRJ pilot.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

...... said a former CRJ pilot.

I was pointing out him accusing mainline of undercutting the regionals and the irony of it. Didn't come accross as planned..whatever. It's the internet.