Frank Lorenzo had an excuse, he was management

[Turtle21]

The PHL pilots elected and desire to maintain the representatives that they have. Prater and the pals at ALPA are disregarding the right of the PHL reps to have elected representatives.

In CLT the members have demanded a reall their reps and the CLT reps, with Prater's evident support refuse to allow the members of CLT to have a vote on the recall.

ALPA did the same thing to the pilots of American before they formed APA. Apparently Prater doesn't read history.

VIA ELECTRONIC MAIL

Captain Eric A. Rowe
Chairman and
Captain Representative
Local Council 41
Air Line Pilots Association
Evans Mountain Road
PO Box 298
Strafford, NH 03884
[email protected]


Captain David E. Ciabattoni
Vice Chairman and
First Officer Representative
Local Council 41
Air Line Pilots Association
403 Scott Lane
Wallingford, PA 19086
[email protected]


Captain James P. Portale
Secretary-Treasurer
Local Council 41
Air Line Pilots Association
11 Bluebeard Dr
Waretown, NJ 08758
[email protected]


NOTICE OF CHARGES AND
OF EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING TO CONSIDER CHARGES
PURSUANT TO ARTICLE XIX, SECTION 1.D
In accordance with Article XIX, Section 1.D of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws, I hereby
notify you of the charges set forth below. I also notify you that I have proposed an emergency
trusteeship of Local Council 41 to take effect immediately upon approval by the ALPA
Executive Council. The ALPA Executive Council will meet to decide whether to approve the
proposed emergency corrective action on March 3, 2008, at 1100 Eastern Standard Time. The
meeting will be held in the Association’s offices in Washington, D.C.


1

The charges and the basis for the proposed emergency trusteeship are as follows:

Captains Rowe and Ciabattoni are each officers and status representatives of ALPA Local
Council 41, as well as members of the ALPA US Airways MEC and members of the ALPA
Board of Directors. Captain Portale is also an officer of ALPA Local Council 41. In those
positions, each owes a duty of loyalty to ALPA, including the duty to declare his full support for
ALPA in the context of an NMB representation election resulting from an organizing drive by a
rival labor organization, and the duty to lend no support to that other organization.

USAPA has challenged the Association’s representation rights at US Airways. The voting
period for an NMB representation election begins on March 20. The impending NMB
representation election makes it critical that each Local Council 41 officer now declare his
support for the continuation of ALPA’s status as pilot bargaining representative, oppose the
USAPA effort, provide no support to the USAPA effort, and urge the members of Local Council
41 to vote for ALPA in the NMB representation election.

In addition to the failure of all of the Local Council 41 officers to declare support for ALPA, and
their joint communications reflecting a pattern of support for USAPA, on February 27, 2008,
Captains Rowe and Ciabattoni each further showed his support for USAPA by attempting to
recruit a HIMS liaison for the Association to perform the same services for USAPA. This
discussion with the HIMS liaison concerning work for USAPA took place while they were
speaking to him in their capacity as LEC officers and ALPA representatives.

Captains Rowe and Ciabattoni have stated that they do not “work for USAPA,” but they have not
denied that they are providing support and assistance to USAPA, nor have they repudiated their
prior communications reflecting a pattern of support. Likewise, none of the three Local Council
41 officers has declared that he supports ALPA in the representation election and would urge
Local Council 41 members to vote for ALPA in the representation election.

It is my determination that, by their actions on behalf of a rival labor organization and their
continuing failure to provide necessary support for ALPA in the face of an impending NMB
representation election between the Association and the rival organization, the Local Council 41
officers have violated and failed to comply with their obligations to ALPA as representatives,
officers, and directors under the Constitution and By-Laws and Association policies, and
exposed the Association to detrimental consequences by engaging in a substantial failure to
perform significant legal or representational duties of a bargaining representative. In short, they
have betrayed their obligations to ALPA and, in doing so, have jeopardized ALPA’s continued
existence at US Airways.

Based on these facts and circumstances, I have determined that emergency corrective action is
necessary and appropriate in the face of the impending NMB representation election.

At this time, it is imperative that each Local Council 41 officer clearly and unequivocally, in
writing, declare his support for ALPA and opposition to USAPA in the NMB representation
election and urge all Local Council 41 pilots to cast their votes for ALPA. If they cannot do so,
they should resign their ALPA positions.

2


Therefore, each Local Council 41 officer is requested to state, in writing, his support for ALPA
in the representation election, his opposition to USAPA, and his commitment to urge Local
Council 41 pilots to vote for ALPA, and to send a copy of that statement to Captain Bill Couette,
ALPA Vice President−Administration/Secretary ([email protected]) no later than 1700 EST
on Sunday, March 2, 2008. The Executive Council will review such response in connection with
its meeting on this issue.

As required by Article XIX, Section 1.D of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws, if the
Executive Council approves the proposed emergency corrective action, the officers of Local
Council 41 will be afforded a full and fair hearing before the ALPA Executive Board. Such
hearing will be scheduled for a date to be determined, within the time limits set forth in Article
XIX, Section 1.D, and they will receive advance notice of the hearing’s date, time, and location.

While the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws do not require the Executive Council to provide a
hearing or other opportunity for appearance before acting on the proposed emergency corrective
action, the Local Council 41 officers may, if they choose, attend the Executive Council meeting
and make a presentation commencing at 1400 hours on March 3, 2008, not to exceed a total of
thirty (30) minutes. If the Local Council 41 officers intend to make a presentation to the
Executive Council, they should notify Captain Bill Couette, Vice President−Administration/
Secretary, by e-mail no later than 1700 EST on Sunday, March 2, of their intention to do so.


Yours truly,

Captain John Prater
President

cc: AAA MEC and AAA LEC Officers
National Officers
Executive Council
Executive Board
Executive Administrator

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Prater: "Let's see, I bet if I poke this hornets nest one more time that will get rid of 'em."

I'm voting ALPA, but only because USAPA wants me to be furloughed. If it was real representation, I'd probably get rid of them, but as it stands I have to vote for this incompetent bunch.

 

[PCL_128]

The PHL pilots elected and desire to maintain the representatives that they have. Prater and the pals at ALPA are disregarding the right of the PHL reps to have elected representatives.

Representatives of the Association have certain obligations and responsibilities to the Association. They are not allowed to act contrary to the interests of the Association and the profession. While the pilots of Council 41 have elected these representatives, that doesn't give the reps free reign to engage in any activities that they choose. Activities that violate their responsibilities are unacceptable, and there are consequences. The pilots will have an opportunity to elect new officers if the EC chooses to take the action that Prater has recommended. Trusteeship is a temporary condition to correct a bad situation. It is not permanent, and the pilots will have their opportunity to elect new officers.

In CLT the members have demanded a reall their reps and the CLT reps, with Prater's evident support refuse to allow the members of CLT to have a vote on the recall.

Captain Prater doesn't make the decision about recall votes. The documentation supporting a recall must be sent to the VP-Admin, Captain Bill Couette. As long as the documentation is compliant with the Bylaws, he has no choice but to go ahead with a recall vote. Evidently, the CLT members have not complied with the requirements for a recall as set in the Constitution & Bylaws. Maybe you and the rest of the East pilots should review this document, as you appear to be completely unfamiliar with it.

 

[Turtle21]

What a pity. Really.. its a shame.

 

[PCL_128]

What a pity. Really.. its a shame.

Yes, it really is a shame that the East pilots are so short-sighted and selfish.

 

[Turtle21]

Evidently, the CLT members have not complied with the requirements for a recall as set in the Constitution & Bylaws. Maybe you and the rest of the East pilots should review this document, as you appear to be completely unfamiliar with it.

Your presumption that ALPA has not made the mistake but that pilots have is telling. ALPA is wholly opposed to pilots voting on their future--apparently it doesn't pay as well that way.

Even if the pilots have made an error in the technicalities (how would you know unless you are part of ALPA and have responsibility to receive the paper work) it is ALPA's responsibility to provide representation to the pilots, not to obstruct the pilots in their democratically expressed desires.

ALPA has obfuscated the process and refuses to even clarify something as simple as the exact number of pilot members in the CLT council.

ALPA is a disgrace to the idea of elected representation.

 

[PCL_128]

Your presumption that ALPA has not made the mistake but that pilots have is telling. ALPA is wholly opposed to pilots voting on their future--apparently it doesn't pay as well that way.

I know Captain Couette well. If the pilots of the CLT council had complied with the Bylaws, then there isn't a chance in hell that he'd disregard his responsibility to issue the recall ballots.

Even if the pilots have made an error in the technicalities (how would you know unless you are part of ALPA and have responsibility to receive the paper work) it is ALPA's responsibility to provide representation to the pilots, not to obstruct the pilots in their democratically expressed desires.

If they haven't complied with the Bylaws, then they haven't democratically expressed their desires.

ALPA has obfuscated the process and refuses to even clarify something as simple as the exact number of pilot members in the CLT council.

The Secretary-Treasurer of the CLT council receives an official roster of the CLT membership every single month. In addition, if the membership follows the Bylaws and correctly applies for a recall election, then an official roster will be issued with the ballots to show who is eligible to vote.

ALPA is a disgrace to the idea of elected representation.

ALPA is following the democratic processes as outlined in the Constitution & Bylaws that it it is legally required to adhere to. Any divergence from these Bylaws is illegal. You may find it more convenient to your goals to ignore these democratic processes, but that's not how it works. The Bylaws are there to protect the membership.

 

[Turtle21]

... ALPA is following the democratic processes as outlined in the Constitution & Bylaws that it it is legally required to adhere to. Any divergence from these Bylaws is illegal. You may find it more convenient to your goals to ignore these democratic processes, but that's not how it works. The Bylaws are there to protect the membership.

So you are close enough to the paper work to know the legal submissions..

The membership will vote on April 17 about ALPA's ability to provide "protection".

Prater and his pals deciding to remove the elected reps from the largest base in USAir is pushing fence sitters off the fence and out of the ALPA "protecting" arms.:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

So you are close enough to the paper work to know the legal submissions..

The members that submitted the documentation have their original documents. If they believe that their documentation was sufficient per the Bylaws and their requests are being ignored, then they have a legal claim that they can take to court. But since they aren't doing that, I suspect that they either know that their documentation wasn't sufficient, or they really don't know what is required of a recall effort in the first place. Based on the level of ignorance displayed by the average uSAPa supporter, I'm guessing it's the latter.

 

[Turtle21]

I'm guessing it's the latter.

You're doing a lot of guessing. And you seem to be very comfortable with the number of dues paying members that have to sue their own "protectors".

ALPA has a long history of denying pilots a democratic process. The planned removal of the PHL reps is just another in the long list.

Prater is in danger of appearing vindictive now and isn't doing ALPA any favors.

 

[PCL_128]

And you seem to be very comfortable with the number of dues paying members that have to sue their own "protectors".

I'm not comfortable with anyone suing ALPA. It's completely unnecessary since ALPA is simply following its own Bylaws. If you don't like the Bylaws, then there's a democratic process for you to change them. But since you're a uSAPa supporter, I don't expect you to be educated enough to know what that process is.

ALPA has a long history of denying pilots a democratic process. The planned removal of the PHL reps is just another in the long list.

Placing Council 41 in receivership is part of the democratic process. The democratically created Constitution & Bylaws contains obligations and responsibilities for all elected reps. I know, because I was one. If you don't carry out your responsibilities, then those democratically created Bylaws require your removal, and they lay out a process for doing so. That is what is taking place here. If the Council 41 reps are smart, they will carry out their obligations and this will all disappear on the 3rd.

Prater is in danger of appearing vindictive now and isn't doing ALPA any favors.

Unlike the Council 41 reps, Captain Prater is carrying our his responsibilities as a rep. It has nothing to do with vindictiveness. This is simply his job.

 

[Lear70]

I'm not an ALPA cheerleader, by ANY means, but...

If you're going to organize a recall effort, at least take the time to understand the process and do it right the FIRST time.

It's usually much more successful than getting smacked in the face with your own lack of attention to detail - that doesn't usually engender any kind of confidence in your new "leadership".

p.s. I totally support what UAir is doing, simply because I think they got hosed by the arbitrator. Bear in mind, they got hosed because they were arrogant, gambled, and lost, but the aribtrator obviously was angry and took it out on them in retaliation in the award (it doesn't even come close to resembling anything fair).

I'd be fighting, too, and so would anyone else. The people who keep pushing the idea of "you need to just accept your fate" would likely not be preaching the same line if the shoe were on the other foot.

 

[PCL_128]

The people who keep posturing on the "you need to just accept your fate" would likely not be preaching the same line if the shoe were on the other foot.

I'm not telling them to accept their fate. I'm telling them to recall their entire slate of reps (the right way, per the Bylaws) and elect a new group that will work with National and the West pilots to come to a mutually agreeable solution on fences.

 

[:-)]

The PHL pilots elected and desire to maintain the representatives that they have. Prater and the pals at ALPA are disregarding the right of the PHL reps to have elected representatives.

Nope, Prater and his pals are not disregarding the right of Philly pilots to have elected representatives. He IS deny the reps the right to represent other unions at the time they are elected ALPA representatives. Reps elected under the ALPA banner have an obligation to work for, not against ALPA. added in edit: if the PHL reps had any honor, they would resign and work openly for USAPA instead of working behind the scenes.

In CLT the members have demanded a reall their reps and the CLT reps, with Prater's evident support refuse to allow the members of CLT to have a vote on the recall.

ALPA did the same thing to the pilots of American before they formed APA. Apparently Prater doesn't read history.

I can't comment on the recall, I'm not a member of that council, but I can guarantee that Bill Couette would call the election if it were properly requested by a verified petition from the members. Couette is an honorable man.

Finally, you'll still be welcome on my js even if your wearing a USAPA lanyard. Just don't bring it up.

 

[FR8mastr]

The CLT reps have not had a meeting in over 4 months, what is your pal down in Herndon doing about that? Its kinda hard to put a recall on the agenda for a meeting that does not take place.

Let me ask you 1 question, has ALPA ever done anything wrong in your eyes?

 

[TWA Dude]

p.s. I totally support what UAir is doing, simply because I think they got hosed by the arbitrator.

Lemme get this straight: you support the East's attempts to screw the West because they didn't get what they wanted from the arbitrator? Have you no integrity? Why does the West deserve this?

Bear in mind, they got hosed because they were arrogant, gambled, and lost, but the aribtrator obviously was angry and took it out on them in retaliation in the award.

I saw no indication of anger in the Nicolau Award. Quite the opposite, in fact, his explanation was dispassionate and professional. So too were the opinions of the pilot neutrals. Nicolau chose an integration closer to the West's request because it was more reasonable.

The people who keep pushing the idea of "you need to just accept your fate" would likely not be preaching the same line if the shoe were on the other foot.

How dare you presume that others have as little integrity as you and the Easties! Having lived through a merger where I would've killed to have an arbitrator rule I can guarantee you I would've abided by Nicolau's decision regardless. And yes, I stated exactly that long before Nicolau ruled. You're disgusting for trying to justify unethical behavior.

 

[PositiveRate]

His daddy was a US Air pilot. Ignore him.

 

[PCL_128]

The CLT reps have not had a meeting in over 4 months, what is your pal down in Herndon doing about that? Its kinda hard to put a recall on the agenda for a meeting that does not take place.

Ah, I see we have another uSAPa supporter who doesn't know the Constitution & Bylaws. What a surprise! Here's a tip: read Article XVI to learn how to recall officers without holding a meeting. Pretty simple, really.

Let me ask you 1 question, has ALPA ever done anything wrong in your eyes?

ALPA has done plenty wrong. The solution is never to decertify the union, however.

 

[PositiveRate]

Hey turtle - you never answered my questions from the previous thread.

Very simple questions.

1) Would you and your fellow pilots have preferred to not have been aquired by America West Holdings? My guess is 100% of the AWA pilots would say they would have preferred to go it alone.

2) Had the East gotten more or all of what you demanded in arbitration, would USAPA even exist?

---------
In my opinion, you would not be a US Airways pilot had this merger not occured. AWA might be in a similar situation as Frontier....but you were about to not have a company to work for. Doug Parker just said on Thursday that the merger saved 30,000 US Air jobs from liquidation.

And if you guys had gotten what you thought you deserved, I can gaurantee you USAPA would not have come to pass.
-------------

So why do you and yours continue to paint this as something it's not? This is about Nicolau and getting your careers back at the expense of others.

Your council 41 boys are some of the worst offenders in aiding and abeting USAPA while out on UB...sounds like the karma train is just about at the station.

 

[Lear70]

Lemme get this straight: you support the East's attempts to screw the West because they didn't get what they wanted from the arbitrator? Have you no integrity?

My integrity has been proven, many times over.

I understand the East's attempts to obtain a FAIR seniority integration, rather than what Nicolau gave which is so obviously skewed toward the West that only the West pilots are blind to it.

I don't particularly care for the method they're using to go about it, but I can't blame them for using the only weapon they have left due to the failure of their own negotiating team to pull their collective heads out of their nether regions when Nicolau warned them to come back with something fair.

Why does the West deserve this?

Good question. Why *DOES* the West deserve the windfall? Why does the East deserve to get hosed?

I saw no indication of anger in the Nicolau Award. Quite the opposite, in fact, his explanation was dispassionate and professional. So too were the opinions of the pilot neutrals.

Of course you didn't... You're a West pilot. I don't buy into his assertion that the East was headed for liquidation, nor do many of my peers and, let's face it, you wouldn't be doing ANY real international flying (except for Mexico) if you hadn't merged.

The West's career expectations are greatly improved with the merger, without giving them super-seniority in some cases that is included in the Nicolau award.

If you can't see this, then I can't help you. Many others outside your fight understand it...

Nicolau chose an integration closer to the West's request because it was more reasonable.

Of course it was *MORE* reasonable. The East wanted a staple (effectively by DOH).

Saying the West was "more reasonable" is not the same as saying "the West's offer was completely fair and shared the career expectations of both carriers' pilots in a completely equitable manner".

How dare you presume that others have as little integrity as you and the Easties!

How dare you presume to know how much integrity I have. Works both ways, buddy. Try dropping the holy outrage and actually debating. You sound like a worked-up high school girl. Ease off the caffeine or something.

Having lived through a merger where I would've killed to have an arbitrator rule I can guarantee you I would've abided by Nicolau's decision regardless. And yes, I stated exactly that long before Nicolau ruled. You're disgusting for trying to justify unethical behavior.

Again. Caffeine = No.

And it's easy to "say" that you would; that's the entire point I'm making. I've bit a large bullet for our profession; I continue to live with the outcome of getting involved and helping raise the bar. I also watch many others who, when push comes to shove, won't practice what they preach.

My guess is you'll get your turn. If you guys can't come to something amicable, the East will burn it down, and you can play the blame game with a 2nd carrier.

p.s. We've agreed about AA before but, again, the shoe was on the other foot in that scenario. You got screwed, no doubt about it. Now someone else is getting screwed, you're on the "non-screwed" end of the bargain, and you can't take a minute to see their point of view?

That's pretty hypocritcal. I'd expect more coming from you.

His daddy was a US Air pilot. Ignore him.

Doesn't change the validity of my statements.

Ignoring me won't change the facts that thousands of UAir pilots are going to suffer while many West pilots receive a windfall that only the merger provided.

My "daddy's" UAir history doesn't change my own accomplishments nor my knowledge of the industry, much less my ability to perceive a "fair deal" when I see it. My resume speaks for itself (see left column).

The fact is, in a "fair" integration, the majority of both sides are usually unhappy with facets of the arrangement. Here there's a few people at West who got hosed, the majority will benefit GREATLY, whereas, conversely, a few people in the East will benefit but the majority will get hosed.

But go ahead, keep butting heads. You'll stay locked off their widebody fleets even longer, you'll stay that much longer without a good contract as we enter further into a recession, and you'll put your entire company in jeopardy instead of coming to a mutually-agreeable arrangement.

Brilliant.