FO's in supervisory positions

regionaltard

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Any chance a Captain could end up doing a carpet dance for a FO at your airline?
 

a320drivr

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It can happen at JB as we have FO's that are assistant chief pilots. Its total BS in my opinion. If I were to be dragged into the chief pilots office (it hasnt happened yet) how can a FO sit there and chew out a Capt. What if we ever flew together after I got an a@@ reaming from him. How would that go. Would I be able to be the Capt. or would I have to defer to the FO that is an assistant chief. Its screws up the chain of command so bad. Only Capt's should be in the Chief Pilots office but at JB we like to cut costs at whatever the price.
 

Dizel8

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Huh?
Would it be any better if a junior Captain chewed you out?
 

oldxfr8dog

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a320drivr said:
It can happen at JB as we have FO's that are assistant chief pilots. Its total BS in my opinion. If I were to be dragged into the chief pilots office (it hasnt happened yet) how can a FO sit there and chew out a Capt. What if we ever flew together after I got an a@@ reaming from him. How would that go. Would I be able to be the Capt. or would I have to defer to the FO that is an assistant chief. Its screws up the chain of command so bad. Only Capt's should be in the Chief Pilots office but at JB we like to cut costs at whatever the price.
I think we need to piously bow our heads and intone, "The Values, etc... and so forth and so on...
Oh yeah. And profit sharing...
 

Southbound

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At Horizon there is currently one Asst CP....now called the "Manager of Pilot Services" (MPS) who is an FO and is, by the way, much more capable than any of the captains who have been MPS's. They are soon to hire another FO MPS in PDX as well. The guy in Seattle isn't even a friggin pilot which is the reason they changed the stupid acronym. Doesn't really save any money, the min salary posted for an MPS is well above a junior Dash 8 Capts Salary and if you (the line pilot) really screw up you will be dancing in the office in Portland to someone with more pull anyway. Doesn't seem to make much difference but then again, I'm an FO.....
 

L'il J.Seinfeld

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That situation happens in the military all the time. It used to happen even more often before Navigators started disappearing. There is no rank in the aircraft, other then the captains authority, is what I have always been taught and believe. Mgt is mgt but when they fly as an FO I don't see that effecting the captains role at all.
 

miles otoole

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regionaltard said:
Any chance a Captain could end up doing a carpet dance for a FO at your airline?
What do you mean by "doing a carpet dance?" By this, do you mean giving or receiving?
 

Mooseflyer

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L'il J.Seinfeld said:
Mgt is mgt but when they fly as an FO I don't see that effecting the captains role at all.
I do......it means I have to work my a$$ off!!:)
 

regionaltard

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miles otoole said:
What do you mean by "doing a carpet dance?"
Industry jargon generally understood by the folks I addressed my question to.
 

holdon

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a320drivr said:
It can happen at JB as we have FO's that are assistant chief pilots. Its total BS in my opinion. If I were to be dragged into the chief pilots office (it hasnt happened yet) how can a FO sit there and chew out a Capt. What if we ever flew together after I got an a@@ reaming from him. How would that go. Would I be able to be the Capt. or would I have to defer to the FO that is an assistant chief. Its screws up the chain of command so bad. Only Capt's should be in the Chief Pilots office but at JB we like to cut costs at whatever the price.
Don't think that is the role of an Asst. Chief. they are there to help out and get answers to questions. Not "chew anyone out".
These guys do a lot of behind the scenes work and I don't think a@@ chewing is one of them
 

73-Driver

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If you have an FO that is qualified and willing to take the position what's the big deal? I would bet that if you looked at any 121 carrier more than half of the Captains would not even want the position.

The only thing seperating some FO's from Captains is not skill or experience but a senority number!
 

Dogwood

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a320drivr said:
It can happen at JB as we have FO's that are assistant chief pilots. Its total BS in my opinion. If I were to be dragged into the chief pilots office (it hasnt happened yet) how can a FO sit there and chew out a Capt. What if we ever flew together after I got an a@@ reaming from him. How would that go. Would I be able to be the Capt. or would I have to defer to the FO that is an assistant chief. Its screws up the chain of command so bad. Only Capt's should be in the Chief Pilots office but at JB we like to cut costs at whatever the price.
So 4 stripes makes you a better assistant chief pilot?

Come on now...grow up. I think we have a pretty good representation of the entire rank of seniority now. I doubt you'll hear of any new 7 month F/O assistant chief pilots reaming out any captains.

What about the F/O instructors? Should they be all captains as well?

I know one of the newest additions to the CP office, and he has more major airline experience than most of the captains at this airline.

The last time I walked thru the CP office in JFK, I didn't see anyone wearing any stripes. I don't think it matters in there how many stripes you wear. You can either do the job, or you can't.

DW
 

Diesel

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When you call a ACP and say hey how did you handle this problem when you were captain........ What do you hear on the other end of the line.

Being a captain is important because you know that they were in the same stuff you're in.
 

miles otoole

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Diesel said:
When you call a ACP and say hey how did you handle this problem when you were captain........ What do you hear on the other end of the line.

Being a captain is important because you know that they were in the same stuff you're in.
Exactly. You can assume all (most) F/Os at any major have former Captain experience. That's all that matters-experience/elected position, not current DOH rank/seniority. How is it different than, in certain situations, having CPs with "authority" over more "senior" pilots?
 
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AutoBus

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regionaltard said:
Any chance a Captain could end up doing a carpet dance for a FO at your airline?
By the nature of your question I would assume that FO's are less capable than captains? Then, by some miracle they become superior the day they upgrade.
 

Groucho

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F/O Supervisor?

The head of training at US Airways is an F/O.

He was in my new hire class. Two masters degrees, former B737 captain, USAF Academy grad, former squadron commander, etc, etc etc.

You all assume that because someone is not in the left seat, he never sat there or dosen't know what he is doing. That may be true at the regionals but I can assure you it is not the case at many major airlines.

As a junior captain I had a former Airforce col. as an F/O. This guy has forgetten more about high performance airplanes than I know.
 

Blue Dude

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a320drivr said:
It can happen at JB as we have FO's that are assistant chief pilots. Its total BS in my opinion. If I were to be dragged into the chief pilots office (it hasnt happened yet) how can a FO sit there and chew out a Capt. What if we ever flew together after I got an a@@ reaming from him. How would that go. Would I be able to be the Capt. or would I have to defer to the FO that is an assistant chief. Its screws up the chain of command so bad. Only Capt's should be in the Chief Pilots office but at JB we like to cut costs at whatever the price.
ACP's at JetBlue aren't going to ream anyone out. They're admin guys and troubleshooters. If there's any reaming to be done, you'll talk to your base chief pilot, or if it's really serious, the System Chief Pilot. If you have to dance for the VP of Flt Ops, bring a lawyer, 'cause you've royally screwed up. BTW, he's an FO. How much difference do you think that makes at that point?
 

G4G5

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IMHO, I don't think it matters, my boss often flies right seat for me. The guy has forgotten more then I will ever know but as he puts it " now a days, I get more time behind the desk".

I would have no problem reporting to an FO in the 121 world especially at Jetblue. Jetblue has been able to pick off some really great talent from other carriers. You never know what the guy/gal did in their previous life. Just because you got your application in before the guy sitting next to you, it doesn't make you smarter then him.

In the case of personal conflicts, I would venture to guess that their is something in place that allows the ACP to get off a trip if he feels that their could be a problem.
 
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Chest Rockwell

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G4G5 has got it right. As long as seniority is the only basis for upgrading to the left seat, the most qualified mgmt guy/girl may very well be an FO.
 
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