Formula 1

[Airpiraterob]

too bad the F1 golden years of racing are gone...
1986 (turbo cars had a last hurrah before boost legistlation then extinction: limit-1500cc's with turbo), Gerhardt Berger at the Monaco Grand Prix. The team engine mechanics had his car cranked up for qualifying to some stratospheric boost levels. Boosted all the way up to 5.5 bar! (about 80 inches manifold pressure) on his 1.5 liter destroked BMW 4 cyl. the team had to use a fuel formula left over from the WW2 luftwaffe fighter engines to keep from cracking the piston tops from the pressures. the thing developed 1300 hp. no funky grooved tires, no nose in the air downforce. no special technical science crap...just a well designed car and a 1:1 power to weight ratio. pure talent is all that mattered.

nascar? the only reason its so popular now is caust its been force fed down our throats as the only thing that exists....right at the CART/IRL split too. perfect timing for bill france. the greater majority bought into it cuase thats all they saw on TV. now what do i have? nascar on espn, speed, fox, tnt believe it or not but once it was on all those channels at the same time. i couldnt take it. show me anything that involves the full capability of the car...shifting up...and down! with accelerating...BRAKING and turning left and RIGHT..all of that many many times repeated each lap.

road course racing. that is the sh!!t. I was privy to get to help out a team racing in the SCCA at lime rock park CT one summer. sat on the hill at the 1st turn...was great. watched em outbrake the other guy for the corner only to loose the position at the next corner righ tafter...but fought for it and got it back again dropping a wheel off.....this happened lap after lap...adn then a 3rd guy got into it withthem...man....last time nascar did that was when? oh yeah....they only do it twice a year!!...adn they bring in Road course experts...Robby Gordon is one! dont you forget it!

Speed touring championchip.....and the GT series...but honestly i saw better racing with the touring cars this past weekend at Laguna then anything of late. those guys are nuts. 4 wide into turn 11 (last one) at laguna??...what are they thinking. outbraking...out accelerating....etc.

rally racing is awesome in its own right. you wouldnt dare "race" against another person with passing and everything....too dangerous...heck the group B cars were outlawed cause too many people died! <with 600 hp and 0-100-0 on gravel capability no wonder> but racing the clock for thefastest overall time over the course of 3 whole days of racing....

i wont even go into discussion at length of the fabulous old Can-Am races of the 60's and 70's...McLarren, Chaparral, shadow, porsche 917/30 (1500 hp)....sigh.

racing is racing and its competition with cars...ill watch any of it...i just prefer to see more than roundy-rounds...if its nascar on one channel and a roadcourse on another.....the road course wins my viewership.

i still go to indy pole day tho. wouldnt miss that for the world...every day since 85. (since 56 for dad)

 

[Bluestreak]

Whoa ! I gotta weigh in here.The Great Bernie Ecclestone Fuel Economy Run ? I quit watching that after Niki Lauda retired.I've been a racing nut for many years-watching Mark Donahue in the 917 in the Can-Am at Road Atlanta,to watching Lee Shepherd and Bob Glidden in Pro Stock and Darrel Gwynn and Eddie Hill drive Top Fuelers,NASCAR from the early days (David Pearson and the Purolator Mercury) and Indy from the mid-70's ,to the old Camel GT (Group 44 Jags,Vette GTP,Porsche 962).I was a crewmember in three series (Winston Cup,CART and IMSA GTO & U ),and now I don't even watch Indy-I don't recognize it anymore.IMSA has all but disappeared and NASCAR has been homgenized to death.For my money,the best racing you can see is the World Of Outlaws series-400 cube Chevys on alcohol,no transmission-relentless ! If you haven't been,by all means go.There is a group called The All Star Circuit Of Champions or some such that tours as well.People in IN and OH have it made what with so many sprint car races.

 

[flywithastick]

I saw F1 and was pretty interested until I realized the thread was about cars... 600-hp to go 80-mph in single file. Booooring!

Heck, NASCAR is at least at a reasonable speed.

200-250-mph F1's with O-200's *is* racing.

 

[mike1mc]

For my money,the best racing you can see is the World Of Outlaws series-400 cube Chevys on alcohol,no transmission-relentless !

Those things are GREAT! Something like 600 HP in a 400lb frame. Gotta love it!

 

[Airpiraterob]

oh yeah they do wheelies out of the turn some of em can do it almost the whole straightaway.

but look out, Bill France <nascar> is invading the road racing with the Daytona Prototypes...what the hell is this? they look absolutely like the most painful sh!!t i ever took with sponsor logos on it. they popped onto the scene already homoginized to start with. At the 24 hours of daytona this year, that noone watched cause of these things, France made everyone start behind them no matter how much faster they were than these things, and handicapped everyone else with such microscopic air restrictors that they were uncompetitive and unsafe <he also made their wings smaller wich really made handling dangerous for them> and then kicked out the heavyweights. the formerly WSC cars like the ferrari 333sp's and stuff like that. those guys went to the american-lemans series.

so in doing so Bill France is running a series of really ugly cars in a 'fixed' environment to prevent any other class running from overshadowing these DP's. assuming anyone will watch it. however i will....cause even given all this garbage France is feeding us---again, its still good racing with passing in the corners and braking zones and straights and all that. if youd care to race cessnas instead of Bonanzas then feel free...France does aparently. but racing is racing.

hmm, Bill France=draconian rule and no freedom of ideas......hmmm

 

[cl-65link]

Let me make a bold prediction here, somebody from the first two rows will win the race. That is why Formula 1 is boring. No passing, and barring a mechanical failure, the same people always win the race. The racing scene in Indy is different these days. This comes from someone who grew up there and used to skip school in May to go to 500 practice. Is it better? I'm not sure. The Indy 500 sure isn't what it used to be. It's all about money, no surprise there.

 

[Airpiraterob]

tony george and his 'lets start an american open wheel oval series and showcase american drivers'.....heh heh....whose kickin butt now in this? ...the Brazillians...tee hee.

 

[enigma]

tony george and his 'lets start an american open wheel oval series and showcase american drivers'.....heh heh....whose kickin butt now in this? ...the Brazillians...tee hee.

Actually, the butt kicker is an American from Ohio driving a Fordelet. aka a Chevy by Cosworth. If there is a driver with any more cajones than Sam Hornish, I don't know it. Maybe I'll take that back, anyone who straps into a top-fueler or funny car also must carry them around in a wheelbarrow!

regards,
enigma

 

[metrodriver]

F1 at least has turns to the left and right. And they drive in the rain!!!! A "stock" car in nascar has to be parked with a rain drop falling somewhere in the vicinity of the race track. A thing I don't like about nascar is the constant pushing and shoving, easy to do with closed wheel cars. Someone who was good at that and eventually paid the price for it: D Earnhard.
I really like the WRC, Paris-Dakar: cars, big rig trucks, motorcycles. Many did not make it, sadly.

 

[Catbird]

Racing is Racing it really doesn't matter unless you drive it. To win it takes Dollars, brains, and courage. Have raced since 5 years old, Sprint cars, FFord, Motorcycles, Karts. Some of the best racing these days is motorcycles. Running 160 on the banks of Daytona in the rain with concrete to arrest your forward progress is a enlightening experience. The late 1960's and into the 70's when aerodynamics and tire technology was new, caused many men to pause and re evaluate life's priorities. As Jackie Stewart explained it. " I decided to take a stance concerning safety after racing in the rain at Monza one year. We were running 170 in the rain and the only way you knew where you were was by looking up at the flagpoles which lined the straight. Could not see anything ahead. I'm not a big Nascar fan these days but use to be. Anyone who states Nascar is a joke doesn't race. You can be dead in any race car in a blink of a eye. A racer is a racer it doesn't matter what they drive, its how they drive it. " The G loads which F1 is obtaining is eye opening, the same with Top Fuel and FunnyCar. If they screw up with the chute settings, when they pop the chute the G-load will pop the eyeballs out of your head. Been this way for years. F1 is starting to have issues with eyeball's and neck stretch from the G Load under braking. Same as a plane, the positive G's are manageable to a degree, the Negative G's are a b*tch. The latest Curtis Pitts design Model 12 is rated to +9 and -7 at aerobatic weight. Climbs at 1000' fpm at knife edge and you build it in the garage at home. To watch racing on TV and state it's a joke from your living room is flawed reasoning. People don't watch a race for the wrecks but they sure don't won't to miss it if it happens. They don't have the courage or dedication to join the fun they would rather critique from the Barcolounger. Senna did race Schumacher nose to tail at Monza. His Williams ride height was set to low and he bottom and oversteered. He corrected twice and it got away from him with finale consequences. 1mm ride height adjustment was the difference between life or death in this case.

 

[Pistonpilot]

Actually, the way I remember was Senna had a weld in the steering column break and he went into the wall as a result. It was at the San Marino GP while Schumacher was in pursuit. The case went through the Italian courts trying to find fault with the Williams F1 Team.

Senna was having problems sorting out the Williams during the first few races that season. It would have been great to see the experienced Senna go against the rising star Schumacher in the Benneton was to become that season.

There are many who feel Schumacher to be the best of all time, but Senna will always be the one on top to compare him against.

F1 today needs to get rid of some of the electronic driver aids. When the guy who gets the best start is because the software package was better, there is something wrong. Get rid of single car qualifying, it's boring. Do any of you remember the days when Senna would go out in the last couple minutes of qualifying with all the cars on the track and snatch the pole.

F1 needs to remain at such great circuits like Spa, Belgium or the A1 Ring in Austria. These are great F1 tracks that won't see F1 anymore because of the ban on tobacco advertising. That shouldn't be.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Errr... Get rid of the electronic driving aids? There is only one now, the semi-auto gearbox with launch control/traction control. That's it. There were many other electronic doo-dads in Senna's day, with the full-auto gearbox (auto upchange and downchange), active suspension, ABS, electronic differentials, 4-wheel steering, etc. (not to mention the turbos and the long-outlawed ground effects). The cars are now as electronics-free as they are ever likely to be.... Semi-auto gearboxes save engines (a much-needed money-saving scheme), and traction control is impossible to police. This is as good as it gets.

You may think that Senna is the be-all, end-all of drivers, but I will still put drivers like Clark, Fangio, Stewart, Hill (Graham), Lauda, etc. ahead of anyone that raced after 1980. Senna was a phenom to be sure, but he was an insufferable brat and just as two-faced and as much a cheat as Schumacher ever was.

I do agree, however, that F1 should stay at the grand old European tracks, as it's their history and abandoning it for China and Bahrain (!!!) is a travesty and a move brought on by the ever-incroaching spectre of money and power. Gimme Montreal and Magny-Cours, leave Moscow and China out of it.

Just my two cents.

 

[Flat-tire]

I stand corrected about the 28000 rpms. I was hoping someone would get a rise out of that.

Well, it looks like Kimi has pole. Now if we can hold it together till the end we should be on the podium. I just hope we have more than 10 laps of fuel on board.

When one mentions great tracks don't for get about Silverstone. How come there aren't any American drives in Formula 1? I think there are a few in F3 or F 3000.

 

[bart]

Kimi is on the pole, lets just pray for a cool overcast day so that Michelin and Bridgestone will both have a good race. I will bet that Kimi will not win this one. I would expect it to come down to a slug-out between JPM and MS. I don't know that Kimi will have what it takes to get through a serious, high pressure race. Maybe he does, but it is yet to be seen.

 

[gnx99]

More Technology, PLEASE

Developing and racing all the driving aids and technology is good for the car consumer. Hence, Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar, Toyota, and Honda make the best street cars.

It also explain why GMs and Fords for the most part, SUCK. If their racing doesn't allow them to seek out every little advantage and technology, you'll never see it in your street car (unless they buy it from the Germans)

 

[Airpiraterob]

no americans in F-1?

Flat-Tire,

the answer is because of the horrendous road-course support for the american drivers. All this force feeding of NASCRAP and its being piled on top of us even more is doing nothing for the road-racing presence of americans in the international scene. The american companies go and sponsor all kinds of new talented drivers for road racing across the globe...but the problem? well those new talented drivers are all foreign. There is nothing helping the american youth on their home turf at all develop through a competitive series of road-racing....its 'go to england and do well then well see how good you are in the champ-cars'. the companies for sponsorship are not interested. the only way to make it happen is for the parents so send their kid to england to drive...and thats all kinds of money. so how many rich kids get to go do that and actually have talent to start with?...well a bunch get to go...but ZERO have talent. the only one thats promising is Dannica Potter....and **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** shes hot! a Bobby Rahal proptoge who got 2nd at miami this weekend in the formula atlantic.

last one in F1 was Michael Andretti and he had absolutely no testing and practice time. Imagine your first laps on a track youve never been on is the qualifying sesion? thats what he had to do. their testing driver got all the track time. through all that he did place 3rd at Monza (italy). if things were done right....he would have done well i think.

America lost a great ammount of progress and experience when Mark Donahue died....if yall wnat a good book, go read "the unfair advantage"

 

[I.P. Freley]

As a past fan of Andretti's in his CART glory days, it pains me to say the following... But it's true.

His failure in F1 was just as much his fault as it was the regulations. His refusal to move overseas to take part in the testing program was inexcusable, and a shortage of testing does nothing to explain how he did in the first three races of the '93 season... As I recall, he completed a total of four laps, if not less, due to collisions and other mishaps that he could've avoided by being less agressive.

In any case, there are plenty of "Americans" in F1. Just not Americans from the United States.

 

[I.P. Freley]

BTW...

Saw a Subaru WRX STi in one of the lots near the track yesterday, with a license plate that said "FLAPS 9".

I guess my question now is "What airplane does that individual likely fly?"

 

[Swass]

If one just wants to feel the power, nothing, absolutely NOTHING, beats sitting near the christmas tree for a nitro burning NHRA event held at night.

The only thing that beats that is the Margarita Mixer that my buddy made from spares off his Funny Car (he is the crew chief for Checker Schuck's & Kragen number two car). Loudest freaking way to make a frozen margarita I've ever seen. We were partying pretty late at Pamona acouple of years ago and cranked that bad boy up pretty late, cops showed up and everything. We didn't get in trouble as the locals were race fans and laughed their asses off when they saw the margarita machine. I wonder what the cost is to mix a batch up?

 

[Swass]

Didn't mean to bring this old thread up again, but, did you guys see Del Worsham's car blow the body off his dragster this weekend? Dang that must of hurt. My best friend is the one mentioned above in my last post. Even though he lost I bet they fired up the blender, just because he didn't hurt himself. Good bit of driving.