Formula 1

[Flat-tire]

Who's going to win this weekend at the USA Grand Prix? Lets hope Kimi can pull it out of his ass, or maybe David can wake up and drive like a winner!!

I know this isn't about aviation, but they go fast and look cool doing it. 28,000rpms out of a V-10........that's just crazy

 

[dtoften]

Actually, it's 19,000 rpms... I would like to see someone, other than the top 3 manufacturers, win some. Jaguar and Renault are getting more competitive.

 

[dtoften]

Actually, it's 19,000 rpms... I would like to see someone, other than the top 3 manufacturers, win some. Jaguar and Renault are getting more competitive.

Here's a website giving telemetry for every race track for williams

http://www.bmw.williamsf1.com/

 

[I.P. Freley]

You'd like to see someone other than the top 3 win some?

Welllll... Goody for you that this season both Renault and Jordan have won, in addition to the usual Ferrari/McLaren/Williams trirumvirate.

The last season that saw this many winners... Well, I can't remember the last time I saw a season with this many winners (8). I think you have to go back 'bout twenty years.

I am going to cheer on for my favorite no-longer-in-contention driver, R. Schumacher. Barring that, I'd like to see Michael win just so Montoya doesn't.

I'll be in the "Paddock" section for the third time in four years, so if Montoya wins and you see anyone in that section tearing their hair out, it's probably me.

 

[fokkerjet]

call that racing........

If I remember correctly, at the US Grand Prix last year, Schumacher slowed down to let Barrichello pass and win, paying him back for the "team orders" for Barrichello to let Schumacher win at a previous race that same season. You call that racing?

It will be interesting to see how many people attend this years race, I'm sure that move turned a lot of people off to F1 here in the US. As much as I hate the IRL, at least they can produce an entertaining race for the fans.

 

[fLYbUDDY]

Formula One is boring!! Just my humble opinion
Give me a drag race! And not that Fast and Furious garbage either. Imports are fruity!


Here are some pics of O-town style drag racing!!!

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=927696&uid=457791&members=1

 

[furloaded]

If Formula 1 is boring, what is NASCAR?

 

[enigma]

Being a Ford fan, I tend to root for Jag. However, I'm still a little sore about Jag booting Bobby Rahal. Anymore, I just sit back and root against Ralphs brother and his Ferrari.

Maybe I'm getting old, but the only form of auto racing that really interests me anymore is vintage racing and the IRL. If a fan likes to see true racing, one cannot discount the IRL; more passes are made for the lead in IRL in one race than are made in the whole season in F1 (or NASCAR for that matter). NASCAR has gotten as boring as watching grass grow. I do still watch because occasionally I get to see a charge like Mayfield made last week. That was good racing. Unfortunately, NASCAR has made the cars so aero-dependent, that being out front in clean air is so tantamount to being invincible. If one just wants to feel the power, nothing, absolutely NOTHING, beats sitting near the christmas tree for a nitro burning NHRA event held at night.

Back to F1. The best part of F1 is qualifying!! The video feed given to Speed Channel is usually taken from fewer cameras than they get during the race. This tends to demand that the director use wider shots. In those wider shots, which pan more often, you do really get to see the awesome speed that these autos obtain. It is really impressive. It's too bad that the only video game skills are required to drive those cars. Back in the days before traction control, active suspensions, and the like, the racing was much better.

good topic,
enigma

 

[Hawker rider]

FormulaOne's technology is lightyears ahead of any other racing class that's out there, you have to give them that.

just that is the main reason i love it, they come up with new stuff and push the envelope even further. Too bad the good days of the Ferrari V12 engines have gone, there hasn't been a sound since that one turned it's crankshaft. If you ever heard that engine go through it's revs in real life the hairs on your neck would stand straight.

Off course I would like to see more overtaking too, it's not like there is none, just not very much at the front of the pack.

before Renault and fernando Alonso won it's first grand Pix this year, there were only four other teams, Ferrari,McLaren ,Williams and Jordan who EVER won a grand prix before. So hoping for another team having a win, with all the talent that's out there nowadays.. But it sure is possible, Alonso proved that in Hungary with superiority M.Schumacher style.

 

[fokkerjet]

Maybe I'm getting old, but the only form of auto racing that really interests me anymore is vintage racing and the IRL. If a fan likes to see true racing, one cannot discount the IRL; more passes are made for the lead in IRL in one race than are made in the whole season in F1 (or NASCAR for that matter).

Ever watch the World Rally circuit? I don't know who is crazier, the drivers who drive those cars at insane speeds, or the fans that line up along the course.

As for the IRL, just wait until they start racing on temporary / road courses............then the IRL will be as boring as CART has become, and as boring as F1. The only thing nice you can say about racing on road courses is.........."nice parade!"

As for NASCAR...............88 rules

 

[mike1mc]

I have no interest in the "left handers" going round and round for hours on end. What do people see in NASCAR?? Entertainment? I think not. F1 is very exciting. My only gripes are the team orders and that Ferrari and Williams/BMW have such large budgets, its hard for anyone else to compete. It is nice to see a little excitment in the Championship this year. I can hardly wait for the USGP this weekend.

As far as good racing, try the Speed World Challenge (Touring Car and GT) and Trans-Am. These guys are pushing those cars to the limits. Also gotta enjoy the American Le Mans Series. Some nice machines. By far, the best racing is WRC (rally). Those guys are crazy, but I'd do it in heartbeat.

Anyone here do club racing or autocross (and I don't mean taking your Mitsubishi to Main Street at 3AM to race that Mustang 5.0). Just curious.

 

[enigma]

Ever watch the World Rally circuit? I don't know who is crazier, the drivers who drive those cars at insane speeds, or the fans that line up along the course.

WRC is rallying, not racing. I have watched, and have a tremendous respect for the drivers talents, but don't remember ever seeing a pass on the course. Now the Baja style racing, that's different, you do occasionally see a pass.

If you missed it, Jeff Hammond retired NASCAR crew chief, rodeo'er and Fox expert commentator, recently took a ride with Makkinin (sp?) in the Subaru rally car. Hammond said after the ride, "nothing I have ever done ( and that includes lots of auto racing, skydiving, horse riding, etc) is as exciting as one exhibition lap in the right seat of a rally car". I use quotes, but it's really a paraphrase, needless to say Hammond was quite pumped after the ride. The ride ended up with the car on its side after a roll, btw. :-0

regards,
enigma

 

[fLYbUDDY]

If Formula 1 is boring, what is NASCAR?

NASCAR is even more boring!!!

I wasn’t talking about NASCAR. I was talking about AMERICAN drag racing. I like it the best out of all the motor sports because it is the one I can most relate to. For example I can take my 69 Camaro and go play with the big boys, even thou I would get whopped. But it isn't like I could take my 69 Camaro and go run it around a go cart track like the Formula One guys do. Plus the Drag cars make the most HP out there (in auto racing.) There is nothing in the world like seeing a 3500lbs car with 2000Hp (and is street legal) stand straight up on the bumper and cross through the traps in 6 seconds at over 200 mph! What a rush!!!!

Just my .02.

 

[fLYbUDDY]

Nitro always brings a tear to my eye!

NOTHING, beats sitting near the christmas tree for a nitro burning NHRA event held at night.

amen brother! 6000HP (x2)!!!

 

[typhoonpilot]

The only true racing worth watching takes place at Reno, NV in September

Typhoonpilot

 

[fokkerjet]

WRC is rallying, not racing. I have watched, and have a tremendous respect for the drivers talents, but don't remember ever seeing a pass on the course.

It's racing in the sense that you are "racing" the clock, or better yet, "racing" your competitors time for the curcuit.

As for passing, every now and then they have to get around someone that's in trouble..........rollover, engine / transmission failure or car caught fire.


I feel the need.............the need for speed.....

 

[SennaP1]

Would like to see Schumacher win a 6th one, he is the best there is/was in the last decade. Why not a 6th? Always have and will be a Senna fan, that guy was out of this world. Too bad we never had Schumi/Senna real racing. For the new guys I like Kimi and Alonso. JPM never has anything good to say.

F1 is an awesome show, especially when you are there at the track.

 

[bart]

See my avatar

 

[Typhoon1244]

...good topic...

I'll bet Generaltso doesn't think so.

 

[fLYbUDDY]

I'll bet Generaltso doesn't think so.

 

[Airpiraterob]

too bad the F1 golden years of racing are gone...
1986 (turbo cars had a last hurrah before boost legistlation then extinction: limit-1500cc's with turbo), Gerhardt Berger at the Monaco Grand Prix. The team engine mechanics had his car cranked up for qualifying to some stratospheric boost levels. Boosted all the way up to 5.5 bar! (about 80 inches manifold pressure) on his 1.5 liter destroked BMW 4 cyl. the team had to use a fuel formula left over from the WW2 luftwaffe fighter engines to keep from cracking the piston tops from the pressures. the thing developed 1300 hp. no funky grooved tires, no nose in the air downforce. no special technical science crap...just a well designed car and a 1:1 power to weight ratio. pure talent is all that mattered.

nascar? the only reason its so popular now is caust its been force fed down our throats as the only thing that exists....right at the CART/IRL split too. perfect timing for bill france. the greater majority bought into it cuase thats all they saw on TV. now what do i have? nascar on espn, speed, fox, tnt believe it or not but once it was on all those channels at the same time. i couldnt take it. show me anything that involves the full capability of the car...shifting up...and down! with accelerating...BRAKING and turning left and RIGHT..all of that many many times repeated each lap.

road course racing. that is the sh!!t. I was privy to get to help out a team racing in the SCCA at lime rock park CT one summer. sat on the hill at the 1st turn...was great. watched em outbrake the other guy for the corner only to loose the position at the next corner righ tafter...but fought for it and got it back again dropping a wheel off.....this happened lap after lap...adn then a 3rd guy got into it withthem...man....last time nascar did that was when? oh yeah....they only do it twice a year!!...adn they bring in Road course experts...Robby Gordon is one! dont you forget it!

Speed touring championchip.....and the GT series...but honestly i saw better racing with the touring cars this past weekend at Laguna then anything of late. those guys are nuts. 4 wide into turn 11 (last one) at laguna??...what are they thinking. outbraking...out accelerating....etc.

rally racing is awesome in its own right. you wouldnt dare "race" against another person with passing and everything....too dangerous...heck the group B cars were outlawed cause too many people died! <with 600 hp and 0-100-0 on gravel capability no wonder> but racing the clock for thefastest overall time over the course of 3 whole days of racing....

i wont even go into discussion at length of the fabulous old Can-Am races of the 60's and 70's...McLarren, Chaparral, shadow, porsche 917/30 (1500 hp)....sigh.

racing is racing and its competition with cars...ill watch any of it...i just prefer to see more than roundy-rounds...if its nascar on one channel and a roadcourse on another.....the road course wins my viewership.

i still go to indy pole day tho. wouldnt miss that for the world...every day since 85. (since 56 for dad)

 

[Bluestreak]

Whoa ! I gotta weigh in here.The Great Bernie Ecclestone Fuel Economy Run ? I quit watching that after Niki Lauda retired.I've been a racing nut for many years-watching Mark Donahue in the 917 in the Can-Am at Road Atlanta,to watching Lee Shepherd and Bob Glidden in Pro Stock and Darrel Gwynn and Eddie Hill drive Top Fuelers,NASCAR from the early days (David Pearson and the Purolator Mercury) and Indy from the mid-70's ,to the old Camel GT (Group 44 Jags,Vette GTP,Porsche 962).I was a crewmember in three series (Winston Cup,CART and IMSA GTO & U ),and now I don't even watch Indy-I don't recognize it anymore.IMSA has all but disappeared and NASCAR has been homgenized to death.For my money,the best racing you can see is the World Of Outlaws series-400 cube Chevys on alcohol,no transmission-relentless ! If you haven't been,by all means go.There is a group called The All Star Circuit Of Champions or some such that tours as well.People in IN and OH have it made what with so many sprint car races.

 

[flywithastick]

I saw F1 and was pretty interested until I realized the thread was about cars... 600-hp to go 80-mph in single file. Booooring!

Heck, NASCAR is at least at a reasonable speed.

200-250-mph F1's with O-200's *is* racing.

 

[mike1mc]

For my money,the best racing you can see is the World Of Outlaws series-400 cube Chevys on alcohol,no transmission-relentless !

Those things are GREAT! Something like 600 HP in a 400lb frame. Gotta love it!

 

[Airpiraterob]

oh yeah they do wheelies out of the turn some of em can do it almost the whole straightaway.

but look out, Bill France <nascar> is invading the road racing with the Daytona Prototypes...what the hell is this? they look absolutely like the most painful sh!!t i ever took with sponsor logos on it. they popped onto the scene already homoginized to start with. At the 24 hours of daytona this year, that noone watched cause of these things, France made everyone start behind them no matter how much faster they were than these things, and handicapped everyone else with such microscopic air restrictors that they were uncompetitive and unsafe <he also made their wings smaller wich really made handling dangerous for them> and then kicked out the heavyweights. the formerly WSC cars like the ferrari 333sp's and stuff like that. those guys went to the american-lemans series.

so in doing so Bill France is running a series of really ugly cars in a 'fixed' environment to prevent any other class running from overshadowing these DP's. assuming anyone will watch it. however i will....cause even given all this garbage France is feeding us---again, its still good racing with passing in the corners and braking zones and straights and all that. if youd care to race cessnas instead of Bonanzas then feel free...France does aparently. but racing is racing.

hmm, Bill France=draconian rule and no freedom of ideas......hmmm

 

[cl-65link]

Let me make a bold prediction here, somebody from the first two rows will win the race. That is why Formula 1 is boring. No passing, and barring a mechanical failure, the same people always win the race. The racing scene in Indy is different these days. This comes from someone who grew up there and used to skip school in May to go to 500 practice. Is it better? I'm not sure. The Indy 500 sure isn't what it used to be. It's all about money, no surprise there.

 

[Airpiraterob]

tony george and his 'lets start an american open wheel oval series and showcase american drivers'.....heh heh....whose kickin butt now in this? ...the Brazillians...tee hee.

 

[enigma]

tony george and his 'lets start an american open wheel oval series and showcase american drivers'.....heh heh....whose kickin butt now in this? ...the Brazillians...tee hee.

Actually, the butt kicker is an American from Ohio driving a Fordelet. aka a Chevy by Cosworth. If there is a driver with any more cajones than Sam Hornish, I don't know it. Maybe I'll take that back, anyone who straps into a top-fueler or funny car also must carry them around in a wheelbarrow!

regards,
enigma

 

[metrodriver]

F1 at least has turns to the left and right. And they drive in the rain!!!! A "stock" car in nascar has to be parked with a rain drop falling somewhere in the vicinity of the race track. A thing I don't like about nascar is the constant pushing and shoving, easy to do with closed wheel cars. Someone who was good at that and eventually paid the price for it: D Earnhard.
I really like the WRC, Paris-Dakar: cars, big rig trucks, motorcycles. Many did not make it, sadly.

 

[Catbird]

Racing is Racing it really doesn't matter unless you drive it. To win it takes Dollars, brains, and courage. Have raced since 5 years old, Sprint cars, FFord, Motorcycles, Karts. Some of the best racing these days is motorcycles. Running 160 on the banks of Daytona in the rain with concrete to arrest your forward progress is a enlightening experience. The late 1960's and into the 70's when aerodynamics and tire technology was new, caused many men to pause and re evaluate life's priorities. As Jackie Stewart explained it. " I decided to take a stance concerning safety after racing in the rain at Monza one year. We were running 170 in the rain and the only way you knew where you were was by looking up at the flagpoles which lined the straight. Could not see anything ahead. I'm not a big Nascar fan these days but use to be. Anyone who states Nascar is a joke doesn't race. You can be dead in any race car in a blink of a eye. A racer is a racer it doesn't matter what they drive, its how they drive it. " The G loads which F1 is obtaining is eye opening, the same with Top Fuel and FunnyCar. If they screw up with the chute settings, when they pop the chute the G-load will pop the eyeballs out of your head. Been this way for years. F1 is starting to have issues with eyeball's and neck stretch from the G Load under braking. Same as a plane, the positive G's are manageable to a degree, the Negative G's are a b*tch. The latest Curtis Pitts design Model 12 is rated to +9 and -7 at aerobatic weight. Climbs at 1000' fpm at knife edge and you build it in the garage at home. To watch racing on TV and state it's a joke from your living room is flawed reasoning. People don't watch a race for the wrecks but they sure don't won't to miss it if it happens. They don't have the courage or dedication to join the fun they would rather critique from the Barcolounger. Senna did race Schumacher nose to tail at Monza. His Williams ride height was set to low and he bottom and oversteered. He corrected twice and it got away from him with finale consequences. 1mm ride height adjustment was the difference between life or death in this case.