Former AWA Pilot writes the truth

[GuppyWN]

Couple that with their reduced career expectations and they would pretty much come out on the short end of any merger stick.

I'm confused. I thought Career Expectation was ONLY the seat you expected to sit in. Are you saying it includes the CAREER as a whole?

Gup

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm confused. I thought Career Expectation was ONLY the seat you expected to sit in. Are you saying it includes the CAREER as a whole?

Gup

Career expectations is just that, what you expected to happen. USAPA has established that they want nothing to do with realistic expectations and are willing to work for reduced frozen pay rather than be part of a merger and move forward. Sadly they have a very well documented history that defines them. I don't think any other pilot group would consider working with them in the event of a merger because of what they have done. Which makes the case to any Board of Directors considering a deal with USAir that it is not in any stockholders best interest to do a deal that requires negotiating with USAPA.
In other words, trying to merge any airline with USAPA represented pilots would probably get voted down by any other airline stockholders because it is not in any companies best interest to take on the mess USAPA has made.

Obviously you are trying to make a point about your situation. I think it's safe to say you and AT both do the same kind of flying and had very similar career expectations, domestic LCC flying in the same type of A/C. Seems like that would make it a lot easier for an arbitrator to sort out. You have a little more mature seniority list, but no were near as disparate as USAir and AWA was. That had to be the most convoluted mess with out any chance of a happy ending no matter what the arbitrator came up with.

By the way, I am not making a judgement here about DOH vs. Relative vs. whatever in the USAPA case. The whole problem stems from the EAST folks agreed that they were two so completely disparate seniority lists that both sides agreed to accept a neutral arbitrators decision. EAST simply went back on their word in a spectacular fashion that has been a spectacular failure.

 

[FR8mastr]

Career expectations is just that, what you expected to happen. USAPA has established that they want nothing to do with realistic expectations

As apposed to the West position of " in 2003 we had X amount of time until we upgrade, therefore we expect that for the rest of our careers"

 

[Dan Roman]

As apposed to the West position of " in 2003 we had X amount of time until we upgrade, therefore we expect that for the rest of our careers"

I've got sympathy for sides. It was a very difficult situation with no easy answers. Huge disparity in seniority lists, USAir, apparently was on the brink of shutting down, etc etc. you can argue all day long from both sides. That's why it had to go to arbitration.
Agreeing to binding arbitration and than reneging was wrong. period. USAPA has been a big mistake for everyone.

I think it's amazing that the airline that was the gold standard for handling mergers in the 1970's, Allegheny/Mohawk, could eventually be destroyed by merging two of the strongest airlines of their time in the 1980's. When USAir/Piedmont/PSA merged, USAir and Piedmont were two of the financially strongest airlines and best jobs in the industry. Yet their combination went steadily downhill. Usair's final merger has been the exact opposite of Allegheny/Mohawk and the poster child of how not to merge.

 

[waveflyer]

And now we're back to the bad teacher line:

BINDING ARBITRATION; "IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SEAN!!!!"

 

[TWA Dude]

It's enough.

 

[Carl S.]

As I said on the first page of this tread, when the East pilots are done banging their heads against the wall( i.e. gold standard, not fair, bad MDA data,plain angry for a terrible life, bad aviation career and so on...) we as West pilots are ready to move on. Keep reading all the USAPA spin you want, but the truth is out there and LOA 93 is probably not going away for a very long time. It is no longer a mystery why the East pilots have the worse careers and contracts in the industry, it is THEMSELVES to blame. The East pilots in PHL last week looked beaten down with their proud yellow lanyards declaring to the world a false safety drive to shut USAirways down. Like I said, sad for people to go thru life so bitter and angry, we all only get on shot at life and will not let the East pilots drag us down to their level.

Mark

 

[St. Nic]

As I said on the first page of this tread, when the East pilots are done banging their heads against the wall( i.e. gold standard, not fair, bad MDA data,plain angry for a terrible life, bad aviation career and so on...) we as West pilots are ready to move on. Keep reading all the USAPA spin you want, but the truth is out there and LOA 93 is probably not going away for a very long time. It is no longer a mystery why the East pilots have the worse careers and contracts in the industry, it is THEMSELVES to blame. The East pilots in PHL last week looked beaten down with their proud yellow lanyards declaring to the world a false safety drive to shut USAirways down. Like I said, sad for people to go thru life so bitter and angry, we all only get on shot at life and will not let the East pilots drag us down to their level.

Mark

Screw you pal, were about to smash you clowns in court. Silver isn't going to let you get away with hijacking a union

 

[Carl S.]

St. Nic, take some time off and enjoy the summer, these could be the best years of your life that you are so angry. When you are old you will realize your hate ruined your experience in life. You sound like a person who would key up a nice car because you cannot afford one instead of just saying wow what a nice car.

 

[Dan Roman]

St. Nic, take some time off and enjoy the summer, these could be the best years of your life that you are so angry. When you are old you will realize your hate ruined your experience in life. You sound like a person who would key up a nice car because you cannot afford one instead of just saying wow what a nice car.

Well he has that going for him.......which is nice.

Sorry couldn't resist. You are spot on, our industry is full of people consumed with perceived injustices and forget to live their life.

 

[St. Nic]

St. Nic, take some time off and enjoy the summer, these could be the best years of your life that you are so angry. When you are old you will realize your hate ruined your experience in life. You sound like a person who would key up a nice car because you cannot afford one instead of just saying wow what a nice car.

I enjoy a lot of things, like watching Seham win. How bout you?

 

[Bringupthebird]

I enjoy a lot of things, like watching Seham win.

Then maybe it's not so much anger as delayed gratification!:laugh:

 

[becket]

I enjoy a lot of things, like watching Seham win. How bout you?

Do you enjoy waiting around for Haley's Comet as well? Both happen with the same regularity!!

Loved the new Legal update where USAPA claims to be happy that they're in court...even though they fought tooth and nail for over a year to PREVENT that from happening.

Gee What is Seham afraid of? I wonder.

 

[Bluejob]

"In ten years it won't matter much whether we have a DOH list or not- most of you will be gone and the rest of us will bury your anger with you. You see, you're a bitter soul who knows in the end time is on my side, as well as the law. Even in a worse case scenario for me we keep you at $124 an hour NB captain pay for ten years until you either drop dead or wave the white flag from your bankruptcy contract. Asheville really is beautiful, the Grove Park Inn has such a majestic view. I am happy with how things are looking for me going forward. As each year passes I lose nothing- I will inherit the fruits of your sacrifices regardless of what happens - and a DOH list isnt in the cards. Time to enjoy the view, the 330 ( and maybe even the 350) will be fun to fly. All the best to you."

“Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.”

 

[Metrojet]

As I said on the first page of this tread, when the East pilots are done banging their heads against the wall( i.e. gold standard, not fair, bad MDA data,plain angry for a terrible life, bad aviation career and so on...) we as West pilots are ready to move on. Keep reading all the USAPA spin you want, but the truth is out there and LOA 93 is probably not going away for a very long time. It is no longer a mystery why the East pilots have the worse careers and contracts in the industry, it is THEMSELVES to blame. The East pilots in PHL last week looked beaten down with their proud yellow lanyards declaring to the world a false safety drive to shut USAirways down. Like I said, sad for people to go thru life so bitter and angry, we all only get on shot at life and will not let the East pilots drag us down to their level.

Mark

Carl or Mark

Remind me again why the west won't accept conditions and restrictions with a fence?, in order for both sides to move forward?

Oh yeah - I remember now - because if Nic was the active list - then all the furloughs from the last 3 years (with the downsizing of LAS and PHX) would have come from the East and not one west pilot would be furloughed. SOUNDS LIKE A FAIR SOLUTION TO ME - NOT

Metrojet