Former AWA Pilot writes the truth

[FR8mastr]

This is good stuff; post after post, slamming, insulting, wishing bad luck, and anything else that can be thought up in a negative light against the East.... All followed by... wait for it... "because the East pilots are angry"

"yep, irony can be pretty ironic sometimes"

 

[TWA Dude]

All followed by... wait for it... "because the East pilots are angry"

"yep, irony can be pretty ironic sometimes"

No irony. The East's anger stems from how crappy their careers have turned out. The West's anger stems from the East taking it out on us. George Nicolau gave both sides exactly what they're entitled to.

 

[becket]

Sort of like your Eric Ferguson - he solely took the address's and social security numbers illegally, he formed AOL and you guys have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars - yup- he a great leader - what has he gotten for the west? except lawsuits and stagnation

Metrojet

lies. E.F. Requested a seniority list from the company and THEY GAVE him one. Seniority lists are not confidential information to pilots of the same airline. What has E.F. Done? He single handedly stopped you from shoving your career cancer into somebody else. Don't blame him or the west for your loa93 paycheck however. That was your choice to stay on it a minimum of 8 YEARS longer than you had to. Congrats. You got what you wanted.

Mike Cleary is a mentally Ill lunatic. On his best day, he isn't a nano-particle the man Eric Ferguson is.

 

[St. Nic]

No irony. The East's anger stems from how crappy their careers have turned out. The West's anger stems from the East taking it out on us. George Nicolau gave both sides exactly what they're entitled to.

GMAFB!!! You clowns were about to go bankrupt if it wasnt for Lakefield hooking up with Parker! And you know it!

Really you need to educate yourselve on the hole process and how it went down. Project Zanzabar ring a bell?

ANd this rookie America Worst poster who started this thread just shows who is the greedy one. You guys are unbelievable!

 

[fwrtg]

"educate on the hole process...."
on the whole or hole?
Who needs to be educated? Dumb ass

 

[becket]

GMAFB!!! You clowns were about to go bankrupt if it wasnt for Lakefield hooking up with Parker! And you know it!

Really you need to educate yourselve on the hole process and how it went down. Project Zanzabar ring a bell?

ANd this rookie America Worst poster who started this thread just shows who is the greedy one. You guys are unbelievable!

Ha! I think every single west pilot knows exactly what you easties idea of the "hole" process is. Unfortunately for you, The Federal Court system is going to be placing the nicalau award in your own soon enough.

Nice try though. Btw you "clowns" were ACTUALLY BANKRUPT AND SWIRLING THE TOILET BOWL OF EXISTENCE when Doug Parker and THE WEST PILOTS SAVED YOUR NO INTEGRITY ASSES!!!

 

[say again]

GMAFB!!! You clowns were about to go bankrupt if it wasnt for Lakefield hooking up with Parker! And you know it!

Really you need to educate yourselve on the hole process and how it went down. Project Zanzabar ring a bell?

ANd this rookie America Worst poster who started this thread just shows who is the greedy one. You guys are unbelievable!

Hahahahahahaha!!! You're one sorry individual.

 

[TWA Dude]

GMAFB!!!

I'll GYAFB when you give us a FB. Until then we'll keep fighting for what we're entitled to: the binding arbitration.

You clowns were about to go bankrupt if it wasnt for Lakefield hooking up with Parker! And you know it!

As Mr. Nicolau put it,
"[FONT=&quot]The US Airways [/FONT][FONT=&quot]reliance on post-merger statements by America West's CEO, clearly [/FONT][FONT=&quot]made to assuage growing concerns of America West pilots who had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seen a post-merger end to hiring, an increasing return of long [/FONT][FONT=&quot]furloughed US Airways pilots and a flattening in their own [/FONT][FONT=&quot]advancement, is misplaced."

And:
"[/FONT]Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."

That's what I know. You know something more?

Really you need to educate yourselve on the hole process and how it went down.

What "process" would you be referring to? I was paying very close attention and this wasn't my first merger.

Project Zanzabar ring a bell?

Sure. Mr. Nicolau was supplied with financial data from each side. Re-read the quote from him above.

ANd this rookie America Worst poster who started this thread just shows who is the greedy one.

Might want to check again on who started this thread before spouting off again.

You guys are unbelievable!

I know, people with integrity seem pretty unbelievable to those without.

 

[Flyer1015]

As an outsider lowly regional pilot with no stake in AWA or US Air, I can't help but wonder a few things. One, US Air is stuck with arguably the worse contract out there for similar equipment, and will continue to be stuck under this contract so as long as the integration (list) issue is present. By hanging onto a thread of hope called DOH, what is US Air really trying to get for itself? Numbers speak for themselves, and a HUGE portion of East guys will be hitting retirement due to Age 65 in the next 10 years. At some point, my math concludes that the number of west pilots and the east guys who want to move on will exceed the east guys stuck on DOH. Once that happens, the balance will shift. Am I correct so far?

If so, I don't understand why the holdup by still adhering to DOH. A majority of Easties are, arguably, in the last few years of their careers, many of them less than 10 years to go. This is the point you should be trying to rake in the $ and put away stuff in the 401k/IRA. As an outsider, to me it seems like these guys are just shooting themselves in the foot, and trying to hold off a train that inevitably is coming and unstoppable. Might as well jump on that train and get the advancement (contractually) they can before they hit retirement.

 

[Dan Roman]

And what are the chances any other group wouldn't staple the east to prove a point that none of us appreciate how they hold our industry down

Nobody can staple anyone legally, they would have to agree to it. BUT..... if the USAPA pilots ever merges with anyone they have sure shot themselves in the foot concerning career expectations!
I also thinks it's safe to say the NIC award is the binding list that would have to be used if they ever wanted to be integrated with anyone. Couple that with their reduced career expectations and they would pretty much come out on the short end of any merger stick.

 

[GuppyWN]

Couple that with their reduced career expectations and they would pretty much come out on the short end of any merger stick.

I'm confused. I thought Career Expectation was ONLY the seat you expected to sit in. Are you saying it includes the CAREER as a whole?

Gup

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm confused. I thought Career Expectation was ONLY the seat you expected to sit in. Are you saying it includes the CAREER as a whole?

Gup

Career expectations is just that, what you expected to happen. USAPA has established that they want nothing to do with realistic expectations and are willing to work for reduced frozen pay rather than be part of a merger and move forward. Sadly they have a very well documented history that defines them. I don't think any other pilot group would consider working with them in the event of a merger because of what they have done. Which makes the case to any Board of Directors considering a deal with USAir that it is not in any stockholders best interest to do a deal that requires negotiating with USAPA.
In other words, trying to merge any airline with USAPA represented pilots would probably get voted down by any other airline stockholders because it is not in any companies best interest to take on the mess USAPA has made.

Obviously you are trying to make a point about your situation. I think it's safe to say you and AT both do the same kind of flying and had very similar career expectations, domestic LCC flying in the same type of A/C. Seems like that would make it a lot easier for an arbitrator to sort out. You have a little more mature seniority list, but no were near as disparate as USAir and AWA was. That had to be the most convoluted mess with out any chance of a happy ending no matter what the arbitrator came up with.

By the way, I am not making a judgement here about DOH vs. Relative vs. whatever in the USAPA case. The whole problem stems from the EAST folks agreed that they were two so completely disparate seniority lists that both sides agreed to accept a neutral arbitrators decision. EAST simply went back on their word in a spectacular fashion that has been a spectacular failure.

 

[FR8mastr]

Career expectations is just that, what you expected to happen. USAPA has established that they want nothing to do with realistic expectations

As apposed to the West position of " in 2003 we had X amount of time until we upgrade, therefore we expect that for the rest of our careers"

 

[Dan Roman]

As apposed to the West position of " in 2003 we had X amount of time until we upgrade, therefore we expect that for the rest of our careers"

I've got sympathy for sides. It was a very difficult situation with no easy answers. Huge disparity in seniority lists, USAir, apparently was on the brink of shutting down, etc etc. you can argue all day long from both sides. That's why it had to go to arbitration.
Agreeing to binding arbitration and than reneging was wrong. period. USAPA has been a big mistake for everyone.

I think it's amazing that the airline that was the gold standard for handling mergers in the 1970's, Allegheny/Mohawk, could eventually be destroyed by merging two of the strongest airlines of their time in the 1980's. When USAir/Piedmont/PSA merged, USAir and Piedmont were two of the financially strongest airlines and best jobs in the industry. Yet their combination went steadily downhill. Usair's final merger has been the exact opposite of Allegheny/Mohawk and the poster child of how not to merge.

 

[waveflyer]

And now we're back to the bad teacher line:

BINDING ARBITRATION; "IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SEAN!!!!"

 

[TWA Dude]

It's enough.

 

[Carl S.]

As I said on the first page of this tread, when the East pilots are done banging their heads against the wall( i.e. gold standard, not fair, bad MDA data,plain angry for a terrible life, bad aviation career and so on...) we as West pilots are ready to move on. Keep reading all the USAPA spin you want, but the truth is out there and LOA 93 is probably not going away for a very long time. It is no longer a mystery why the East pilots have the worse careers and contracts in the industry, it is THEMSELVES to blame. The East pilots in PHL last week looked beaten down with their proud yellow lanyards declaring to the world a false safety drive to shut USAirways down. Like I said, sad for people to go thru life so bitter and angry, we all only get on shot at life and will not let the East pilots drag us down to their level.

Mark

 

[St. Nic]

As I said on the first page of this tread, when the East pilots are done banging their heads against the wall( i.e. gold standard, not fair, bad MDA data,plain angry for a terrible life, bad aviation career and so on...) we as West pilots are ready to move on. Keep reading all the USAPA spin you want, but the truth is out there and LOA 93 is probably not going away for a very long time. It is no longer a mystery why the East pilots have the worse careers and contracts in the industry, it is THEMSELVES to blame. The East pilots in PHL last week looked beaten down with their proud yellow lanyards declaring to the world a false safety drive to shut USAirways down. Like I said, sad for people to go thru life so bitter and angry, we all only get on shot at life and will not let the East pilots drag us down to their level.

Mark

Screw you pal, were about to smash you clowns in court. Silver isn't going to let you get away with hijacking a union

 

[Carl S.]

St. Nic, take some time off and enjoy the summer, these could be the best years of your life that you are so angry. When you are old you will realize your hate ruined your experience in life. You sound like a person who would key up a nice car because you cannot afford one instead of just saying wow what a nice car.

 

[Dan Roman]

St. Nic, take some time off and enjoy the summer, these could be the best years of your life that you are so angry. When you are old you will realize your hate ruined your experience in life. You sound like a person who would key up a nice car because you cannot afford one instead of just saying wow what a nice car.

Well he has that going for him.......which is nice.

Sorry couldn't resist. You are spot on, our industry is full of people consumed with perceived injustices and forget to live their life.