Ford may sell jets

[BoilerUP]

Everyone loves the free market screwing everyone until they get screwed then suddenly it is not so good.....

Hypocritical Congressman who use donated corporate aircraft during campaigns blasting CEOs for their use of company aircraft for *gasp* business reasons doesn't have JACK to do with the "free market".

Then again, congressional bailouts by their nature are in violation of "free market" principals.

Besides, those CEOs either couldn't or wouldn't man up and defend the use of those aircraft as a necessary business asset...and if GM or Ford cuts aircraft and jobs within their flight department as a result of this nonsense than Congress isn't to blame for that...the weak-dick CEO is.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Big three CEO's defending corpjets wouldn't have been handout suicide....

Look, I agree with you the corpjets are a biz tool... nothing wrong with it....

But this is perception.... looking back, I am sure all of these Clowns, I mean CEO's would have loved to taken NWA on the day in question...

IOW, if you are going to ask for big bailout then have some SA....

 

[Hand Commander]

The execs might be able to redeem themselves by taking a page from the playbook of Michael Bluth of the Bluth Company. Sell the Corporate jet, keep the stair car. New executive transport: the stair car. Just watch out for low bridges and hop ons. You will get hop ons.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

These guys were pathetic. Deer in headlights as they get grilled by some retard congressmen...and all they can say is "we need money"..

I guess its all part of the dance, they beg, congress says show us your plan, they get a check...but it certainly angers me that the let something as miniscule in the big picture as a ride on the corp jet to be the epicenter? They let Frank and Ackerman (2 complete losers) run the dialogue? - COME ON.

Result: Go home, clean up the window dressing and throw some pilots out. Nice.

For the money these CEOs command today, they sure do come across as pretty f'n stupid.

Interesting times..

 

[metrodriver]

Here is one reason:
MINI Cooper D (yes, that's Diesel) 80 mpg highway, 60 mpg city!. 1.6L/ 110hp. Topspeed 121 mph.
1 million MINI's sold in 6 years. Owned by BMW.

The Toyota Prius doesn't even come close. Anything that Detroit builds is, well, euhh, far behind.

Quality, what's that? Do a search on carcomplaints.com. Do a search on Chrysler. Their 2.7L V6 has a terrible history of seizing up after 60.000 miles. Electrical problems, where to start?

Consumer Report has interesting reports on quality. New and used. The big 3 are all in the bottom of the rankings.

If I buy a car I want something reliable for the $30-50.000 they cost nowaday, not something that gives me a hatefull intimate relationship with a dealer or manufacturer that gives me the run-around.
Example: my wife's Chrysler Sebring Convertable: 6 years old, 6ok miles, 8 major service issues (and a few little ones), all quality related: poor materials, bad design.
My old Toyota, 220k miles: Air flow meter failed at 190k. Only problem I've ever had.

Never ever a Chrysler product again, same goes for Ford and (US) GM. I know I'm not the only one.....

 

[BoilerUP]

MINI Cooper D (yes, that's Diesel) 80 mpg highway, 60 mpg city!. 1.6L/ 110hp. Topspeed 121 mph.

Is that diesel Mini sold in the US?

Consumer Report has interesting reports on quality. New and used. The big 3 are all in the bottom of the rankings.

I don't trust a f**king word Consumer Reports has to say about automobile "quality" after the hatchet job they did on both the Izuzu Trooper and Suzuki Sidekick back in the 1990s.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Strange, really, how Ford and GM build really shyte cars in the US, and loosing billions in the process, whereas their European arms (Ford and Opel) are building rather nice motors and turning a profit.

Case(s) in point: The Ford Focus is one of the best choices of motor in the C (VW Golf) class. The Ford Mondeo is, according to many, the best choice the D (VW Passat) class - especially if you consider value for money (otherwise the BMW 3, Audi A4 or Merc C are the obvious choices). The Opel Insignia has just been voted Car of the Year in Europe.

I would never, not in a milion years, buy any car from Big 3 produced in the US, but I wouldn't mind buying a Ford made in either the UK or Germany, nor an Opel. In fact, am shopping around for a small run-about for the Mrs, and it'll prolly end up being a Ford Fiesta or Opel Corsa. Does umpteen miles to the gallon (or very few litres per 100km as it's measured over here), are cheap to run insurance and tax wise, cheap to maintain - partly because they hardly ever breaks down. Other options will be something Japanese, but wife doesn't fancy Jap cars.

I'm on my 4th BMW now, having had a brief stint driving an Audi (which, although very nice, I didn't like for it's boring driving qualities), this time it's a 320d Touring. 177bhp, torque in droves, does 142mph and sips diesel at silly rates (6.5L/100KM on average (and I hardly drive it economically!), which translates to roughly 37mpg. 50mpg is easily done on longer motorway stretches if I limit myself to around 110 mph.

 

[metrodriver]

Is that diesel Mini sold in the US?

Off course not. I first heard about it in London. Some cabinet minister was driving it with a chauffeur and was being interviewed by a newspaper because usually these guys get a lot bigger car from the state, but he refused, liked his MINI too much. I couldn't believe it so I looked it up on the MINI website, and that's were above mentioned numbers come from.

I just talked to some German friends that live in Opel territory and the big news there is that they want to be seperated from GM again. They get tired of funding the US losses....

Apparently if a european car doesn't get 40 to 50 mpg it's a piece of junk. I'm amazed at how large the percentage of cars runs on diesel, 60-70 % in some countries. No smoke, no smell, no more bolts-in-a-bucket noise, fast and very efficient. They even have Jeep Cherokee and Chrysler Caravan as a diesel.

 

[LJ45]

maybe, all three should walk instead of fly since they could answers a simple challenge by some idiot politician. simply pathetic !!

 

[keebird]

They should downsize to a Hondajet.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Metro

VW produces a 3-cylinder Polo Bluemotion. It's an oilburner, and it'll return around 70-80 mpg. My BMW is officially a 57mpg car. The 204 bhp, 6-cylinder, 325d is a 48mpg car. I drove one, and you would be hard pressed to tell it's a diesel. You can even get a 286bhp twin-turbo 335d (0-62 in 6.1 seconds), which still returns 42mpg!

I couldn't quite justify the price difference between the 325d and 320d, or rather choosing the 325d would have meant cutting down on options, so I sprung for the 320d and spent the difference on nice extras such as 18 inch rims, leather, stereo and navigation. Still, the 4-cylinder 320d has a very nice engine and, being a common-rail diesel, it runs very smoothly indeed.

As for diesel in Europe, hardly anybody buys anthing but diesel over here. The percentage is nearing 75% on average, in some countries (DE, BE, IT, NL) it's more than 85%. Diesel is cheaper, and you go a lot longer on a litre (or gallon) than using petrol. Diesel also offers a vast torque advantage, and since they rotate at lower rpms, are also less noisy. The purchase price is a bit higher, but that's recuperated if you drive more than around 15K KM (or just short of 10K miles) a year.

 

[metrodriver]

My BMW is officially a 57mpg car. The 204 bhp, 6-cylinder, 325d is a 48mpg car. I drove one, and you would be hard pressed to tell it's a diesel. You can even get a 286bhp twin-turbo 335d (0-62 in 6.1 seconds), which still returns 42mpg! [End quote]

200+ hp from 2.5L @48 mpg
280+ hp from 3.5L @42 mpg
2.0L @ 57 mpg

Wooow, those hp's are numbers that couldn't even be achieved by gasoline engines just a few years ago.
You will still be hardpressed to find those numbers in US build gasoline engines. The MPG numbers are way above what anything in the US can achieve.
The 10+ yr old Geo Metro = Suzuki Swift has become very popular again because of the high fuel prizes. It gets about 50 mpg on a 1L 3 cylinder engine. Now the Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius (hybrid) get between 40 and 60 mpg. The Big 3 are advertising heavily with cars that get barely 30 mpg.

Seeing the numbers on European (diesel) cars and the US I certainly believe there is some kind of conspiracy between the car makers and the oil industry. Oeps, I forgot Bush, Cheney & co came out of the oil business and are still heavily tied to it.
Coming up with plans to drill on the edges of National Parks (derricks will be visible in pictures from famous landmarks in some Utah National Parks if the recently -and somewhat secretly-announced auction of drilling parcels continues) will secure their business and stocks for years to come. Reducing the dependence on foreign oil starts at home with a lot more efficient cars. It also reduces the capacity constraints on refineries. But less production = lower prices = lower profits = lower stock price = not good for Texas oil barrons.

BMW 3-series are very nice cars. It shows that safety, comfort and fuel efficiency can be combined.
It takes a leading government and industry cooperation to bring innovative products to the market. Maybe the public in the US is still a little wary of diesel engines, if there are more cars being offered except the VW Golf / Jetta D, the public perception will change very quick.

The sad shape of the Big 3 is directly contributable to the folks who are now argueing about their use of corporate jets, the wwwaaaaaaaayyyyy overpaid CEO's.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm pretty sure most Euro diesels, although they have good fuel economy, don't meet US emissions standards and that's why they aren't available domestically.

 

[jonjuan]

They should downsize to a Hondajet.

Their wallets wouldn't fit through the door.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Metrodriver

The 335d is actually a 3.0 litre engine, not 3.5. They also make a 330d, which develops around 245hp with a single turbo. The 335d is the same engine, but with twin-turbos.

BMW is making a 123d, same 2.0 litre as in my 320d, but developing 203hp. That's more than 100 hp per litre; a first for diesel engines. Still very frugal, but fast as shyte off a shiny shovel.

BoilerUP

True, at least partially. I belive the 320d will meet emission requirements in the US (or, California to be exact) if fitted with a particle filter. Since you pay tax on cars in Belgium based on a weird mix of horsepower, fuel consumption and emissions, I had the filter fitted to mine. Did add a bit to the cost, but will be recuperated in 4 years time. That's also when the EU will impose emission regulations a tad stricter than what California now has, which means that if I'd neglected to fit the filter the resale value would have taken rather a large hit.