Forbes article on pilots...

[Dan Roman]

You know what the last words of the Microsoft flight sim/ gamer types are in an airplane?

"Wait! I've still got 3 lives!!!"
:laugh:

That sums it up well. No job is all that hard, but unlike most ground bound jobs, there are times when we don't get "do overs". Big diference sitting in a cubicle vs sitting in an office going hundreds of miles per hour.
Flying an airliner is pretty easy MOST of the time, "most" being the key word. We all have had moments when we passed a test that someone sitting in a cubicle never has to face.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

and we didn't think we were special, notice nothing about the college degree being the true clear indication of a professional pilot. BTW I greased in my landing in the B-17 yesterday, life is good.

I have seen you make this comment countless times, but you are equivocating. You are trying to make the leap from a fact (that being a college graduate doesn't necessarily make you a better or worse pilot) to a fiction (that you shouldn't get a college degree to be in aviation).

The fact remains that those who would choose to be successful in today's economy would do well to have a degree. It may be POSSIBLE to be successful without a degree, but it is a hindrance one must overcome, not a feather in your cap to not have it.

You may have a solid audience who want to believe they needn't "waste" the money on a degree, but you are doing those a disservice. As someone who has been a pilot recruiter, and sat in meetings with airline management discussing who a qualified pilot is, anyone who doesn't have a degree is at a disadvantage.

Also, the data shows that those who come from structured programs in general do better in training and OE than those who do not (at the regional level). That doesn't mean a superstar cannot come from part 61 with no degree, but in general the most consistent pilots come from a school with training guided and built with an eye towards airline training. If you're going to go to a structured school, you might as well go to one that offers a degree if you don't already have one. Kansas State at Salina has a program that will get you a B.A. and your certificates through CFI for under $80,000 (in state). That is less than most people spend at FlightSafety.

I know what your point is. A degree doesn't make a pilot fly a plane better. Fine. But a degree absolutely categorically positively does make it more likely that a pilot will be successful in their career in today's age. So what, exactly, is your point? Why would you suggest someone not get a degree? This isn't 1940. Look around yourself, man.

 

[Draginass]

It was extremely high over 15,000 aircrew died in stateside training accidents between 1940 and 1945. This was a combination of college and academy graduates and high school graduate. In the stats showed the commissioned officer with a college degree crashed a higher rate than their high school grad cadet ranks.

Cite your source.

 

[pilotyip]

Lots of places

Cite your source.

can not name just one, but do a google search on WWII pilot training and numbers come out. This included not pilots but anyone receiving incentive pay to fly, gunners, radio op, etc. Plus I have read extensiviy for the our Yankee air Museum WII story and interviewed a number of WWII vets.

 

[pilotyip]

Pilotyip college manifesto

I have seen you make this comment countless times, but you are equivocating. You are trying to make the leap from a fact (that being a college graduate doesn't necessarily make you a better or worse pilot) to a fiction (that you shouldn't get a college degree to be in aviation).

The fact remains that those who would choose to be successful in today's economy would do well to have a degree. It may be POSSIBLE to be successful without a degree, but it is a hindrance one must overcome, not a feather in your cap to not have it.

You may have a solid audience who want to believe they needn't "waste" the money on a degree, but you are doing those a disservice. As someone who has been a pilot recruiter, and sat in meetings with airline management discussing who a qualified pilot is, anyone who doesn't have a degree is at a disadvantage.

Also, the data shows that those who come from structured programs in general do better in training and OE than those who do not (at the regional level). That doesn't mean a superstar cannot come from part 61 with no degree, but in general the most consistent pilots come from a school with training guided and built with an eye towards airline training. If you're going to go to a structured school, you might as well go to one that offers a degree if you don't already have one. Kansas State at Salina has a program that will get you a B.A. and your certificates through CFI for under $80,000 (in state). That is less than most people spend at FlightSafety.

I know what your point is. A degree doesn't make a pilot fly a plane better. Fine. But a degree absolutely categorically positively does make it more likely that a pilot will be successful in their career in today's age. So what, exactly, is your point? Why would you suggest someone not get a degree? This isn't 1940. Look around yourself, man.

I beleive I have been consistent. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cuold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. I have said never don’t get a degree, I have admitted that it will probably open doors, but it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. It is only a box to be checked on an application. Going to a 4 yr. college out of high school is not the only way to get your degree. This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he should had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tution assistance program, and no debt. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive? For the “College Only” crowd, there are many ways to skin a cat, you have your way that you feel is the only way anyone should do things. "The way I did it". I do not agree with you, if my grandson elected to pursue a pilots career, I will recommend he not go to college full time, but follow the other time tested path where I have seen too many people succeed. That is fly full time, do your degree on the side, build time, build your resume. I will not debate the fall back value of a college degree, as I have stated many times it is nearly worthless after not being used for 30 years. Let me give you the background on the college degree thing. I do not judge a man by his degree, where he lives, or what he does for a living. I judge a man on the content of his character. I find the college degrees only crowd here, a bit arrogant, a smacking of if you do not have a degree you are not as good as me. I know too many people who are successful and fine men who do not have a degree, I know many people with degrees who will never make any impact upon anything. I know too many pilots without degrees who I consider some of the most successful people I know. I admire them and the lives they have built. So I bait, about the non-importance of the college degree in this business. I think this sets off the college degree only crowd because it distorts their view of what they have done Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s.

 

[waveflyer]

I think pilot yip is advertising for pilots.

If you don't have a degree, don't want to get a degree- or need a way to get a degree cheaply while building flight time- go see Yip.

That is a good idea

 

[Midge]

I think pilot yip is advertising for pilots.

If you don't have a degree, don't want to get a degree- or need a way to get a degree cheaply while building flight time- go see Yip.

That is a good idea

And that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Jetjockey]

Have you ever wanted to live in Ypsilanti, MI and fly dilapidated, old DC-9's???? You know who to call.

No degree, no problem.
No, credit, No problem.
No, car or job, no problem.

Just Call 1-800-FLY-YIPS

Habla Espanol.

 

[cynic]

Why go to college when you practice cannibalism?

http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Your-Ea...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282936805&sr=8-1

 

[rumrnr78]

What a load of crap. Getting a private pilot's license requires the intellectual capability of maybe a 9th or 10th grader. It does require some coordination, common sense and intelligence but no more than what is required to be a nurse or something like that.

The barrier to entry is that is costs a crap ton of money and entry level jobs pay very little. In addition, if you pick the wrong airline you are screwed and have to start all over at the bottom when they go out of business.

I have a commercial and CFI. I keep thinking about getting my ATP for fun but that is another thread and let me say this. It is much easier to fly a jet and input data to an FMS than it is to write a complex computer program.

Let us know when you get your ATP! I hope your enjoying your IT job, everyday you sit at the desk gives another SJS candidate one more leg up on you. And, you are wrong about the FMS input, your computer and your stupid arse are not doing (on average) 5 miles per minute. Do not degrade my profession cause your jealous. I would say you are far from ATP standards because of your comment. Do us a favor and go for the 100 dollar hamburger and piss off....

 

[cynic]

You suck at quoting.

 

[rumrnr78]

I think pilot yip is advertising for pilots.

If you don't have a degree, don't want to get a degree- or need a way to get a degree cheaply while building flight time- go see Yip.

That is a good idea

Your tag line? I wonder what comes of that long of liberal thought? I know brain atrophy is a certain cause! I know you have forgotten that the Congress (which controls the purse strings) was taken over in November by Democrats in 2006! G.W. Bush signed most legislation cause he wanted to get along with the dems (after the "selected vs. elected" argument.)

So, you gutless liberals with a chip on your shoulder helped shield the coming terriost attack. Yes, I put the attack at the feet of the gutless, liberal, piece of ********************e liberal establishment!

I hold Bill Clinton, a known rapist, responsible for the recession that Bush inherited and our weakeness that led to the 9/11 attacks!

The honest history backs my claims!

Cheers-

Rum

P.S. Remember Dem control after 2006 election you idiot! Last paycheck review I was doing just fine under Bush before the dems beat the economy into the ground.

 

[pilotyip]

And that pretty much sums it up.

so it is bad to have your employer pay for your degree? YIP is the birth place of many careers, just a short list of places our pilots have gone in the last 10 years, basically after coming to JUS as a <1000 hr pilot. Delta, NWA, SWA, FedEx, UPS, Kalitta (74's), Airtran, Spirit, Jet Blue, American, United, USAirways, NJ, yes and even the military. YIP is also the place many elect to stay as they get into their late 40's and early 50's, because a $100K/yr is hard to replace at that age. Funny thing about our former pilots, they seem to call us, when between jobs and looking for a place make some money. Ask around see if you can find some former JUS and find out who we are right from the horse's mouth. BTW A nice thing about these guys is that no one who flew as a PIC at JUS ever failed their initial training at their next job, they built a solid foundation in airline operations, SOP, CRM, and flying into uncontrolled airports throughout North America

 

[waveflyer]

Your tag line? I wonder what comes of that long of liberal thought? I know brain atrophy is a certain cause! I know you have forgotten that the Congress (which controls the purse strings) was taken over in November by Democrats in 2006! G.W. Bush signed most legislation cause he wanted to get along with the dems (after the "selected vs. elected" argument.)

So, you gutless liberals with a chip on your shoulder helped shield the coming terriost attack. Yes, I put the attack at the feet of the gutless, liberal, piece of ********************e liberal establishment!

I hold Bill Clinton, a known rapist, responsible for the recession that Bush inherited and our weakeness that led to the 9/11 attacks!

The honest history backs my claims

Cheers-

Rum

P.S. Remember Dem control after 2006 election you idiot! Last paycheck review I was doing just fine under Bush before the dems beat the economy into the ground.

haha-
gutless ehh? Sure about that?
WTF are you talking about? Knock back another shot bc I think you have your threads confused

 

[rumrnr78]

haha-
gutless ehh? Sure about that?
WTF are you talking about? Knock back another shot bc I think you have your threads confused

woops! Mixed my threads. But my point is still valid. And, I would not call you gutless but I find the Democrat leaders gutless. In fact, I challenge the true patriotism of most of the "higher ups".

But, keep your faith in Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, Cynthia McKinnry, Joe (Mr. Gaffe) Biden and our Presidant (with a very questionable background).

Glad to be an expat watching my country burn from a distance.

Cheers-

Rum

 

[waveflyer]

What's with the name listing? Is that supposed to discredit me or them or a guilt by association theme?

There's no great response to that thread drift other than try to remember that in america we are a nation of individuals and what we care about is that individualism. When you stereotype me or anyone else for any reason - you're subscribing to a collectivism that is blatantly unamerican - same if you ever feel like you can't support or not support something you'd like to bc it's not popular among conservatives now. Be yourself. I'll be me. Debate from there- but respect individual thought.

 

[pilotyip]

All part of the coming 2012 hiring boom. Fly because you like to, if you are in it for money, respect, prestige, or recognition, you may be disappointed.

 

[waveflyer]

Yip-It's funny. I fly bc I love to.
I have mostly been respected in my life-hopefully bc I AM respectable - but I also know I get respect bc of flying- it is a VERY honest endeavor that deserves a baseline of respect- serious ******************************bag actions can overshadow the respect people have for your ability to fly- and no one will confuse you with a rockstar- but I do routinely autograph boarding passes and take pictures w/ young kids- and I make more money than I ever would have thought possible as a kid growing up.
Learning to fly has opened up so many possibilities and allowed me to dream even bigger -
if you keep humble- keep working- keep building your reputation day in and day out- flying can give you a lionshare of what this world offers.

I guess I've never understood your attachment to the "managed expectations" your signature suggests.

we all learned how to fly bc we weren't afraid to go after our dreams- it seems like you want pilots who will stop just short of achieving it all. "No degree- no prestige- but you'll get to fly"
is that what you're selling up there?

 

[pilotyip]

Yip-It's funny. I fly bc I love to.
I have mostly been respected in my life-hopefully bc I AM respectable - but I also know I get respect bc of flying- it is a VERY honest endeavor that deserves a baseline of respect- serious ******************************bag actions can overshadow the respect people have for your ability to fly- and no one will confuse you with a rockstar- but I do routinely autograph boarding passes and take pictures w/ young kids- and I make more money than I ever would have thought possible as a kid growing up.
Learning to fly has opened up so many possibilities and allowed me to dream even bigger -
if you keep humble- keep working- keep building your reputation day in and day out- flying can give you a lionshare of what this world offers.

I guess I've never understood your attachment to the "managed expectations" your signature suggests.

we all learned how to fly bc we weren't afraid to go after our dreams- it seems like you want pilots who will stop just short of achieving it all. "No degree- no prestige- but you'll get to fly"
is that what you're selling up there?

After 11 jobs since leaving the Navy, I have adopted another slogan, "Expect nothing and you will never be disappointed” I know it sounds like having no drive, ambition or goals, but that is not the case. There is so much in this business you have absolutely no control over, these effect your job. To fret unnecessarily over those things causes ulcers, it is not worth it. Getting depressed over stupid things that you have no control over is nor worth it.

BTW Please college and "No degree- no prestige" is complete BS, Let me give you the background on the college degree thing. I do not judge a man by his degree, where he lives, or what he does for a living. I judge a man on the content of his character. I find the college degrees only crowd here, a bit arrogant, a smacking of if you do not have a degree you are not as good as me. I know too many people who are successful and fine men who do not have a degree, I know many people with degrees who will never make any impact upon anything. I know too many pilots without degrees who I consider some of the most successful people I know. I admire them and the lives they have built. So I bait, about the non-importance of the college degree in this business. I think this sets off the college degree only crowd because it distorts their view of what they have done.

 

[cynic]

I judge a man on the content of his character. I find the college degrees only crowd here, a bit arrogant, a smacking of if you do not have a degree you are not as good as me. I know too many people who are successful and fine men who do not have a degree, I know many people with degrees who will never make any impact upon anything.

Is having a degree a valid indicator of anything?

For example, if someone has been fired after 1 year from each of their last 5 jobs I can make some accurate guesses about that person. Maybe they are just unlucky and got stuck with a truly awful boss five times in a row but it seems unlikely....

So can we make any assumptions about a person that has successfully and voluntarily completed at least 4 years of schooling beyond what is required? Of is this fact as random as noting a preference for chocolate over vanilla? That is, it indicates absolutely nothing about the person.