Forbes article on pilots...

P38JLightning

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Remember WWII, the sky was filled with mostly high school grads and they did a great job.

True, however it's fair to say things were just a wee bit less computerized, integrated and regulatory back then. By far. By big time far.

Those guys were stick and rudder to the core, and hats off to them all. Yet combat aside, I bet they still crashed/errored in some way/etc at a rate far in excess of what is found today. They were also considered to be very, very expendable. The beaches we stormed were filled with mostly high school (or lower) graduates as well, and they did a great job. This really isn't a relevant comparison to anything going on today.

Do you "need" a degree to operate the controls and FMS of a plane? Of course not. You don't "need" a degree for anything. Nothing. Take the education of the average heart surgeon. Now subtract one mandatory history class back in his/her sophomore year of college and assume that person still went on to get all other required training/residence/internship/etc.

That person would be trained to the exact same standard, skill, etc. only with no degree. They would be just as good as all their peers with degrees, no doubt. The degree itself is not a catch all failsafe, it was never intended to be. It is simply a gateway. Everything involved in getting a college degree isn't necessary in ANY profession, EVER. Not pilot, not nurse, not doctor, not lawyer, not computer programmer, not anything. Ever. Never will be. But degrees are still a valid wholesale measurement of one's ability to succeed in a given profession, despite the fact that it's validity in measuring such is and never will be perfect.

You could train someone to be a great airline pilot without ever doing a single eights on pylons. You can be a great airline pilot without a degree. Yet eights on pylons are required by regs. Many employers require degrees. That doesn't mean that anyone who has a degree is awesome and anyone who does not sucks. It is simply a gateway. One of many, actually, which, taken in the aggregate with all the other ones, helps in many, many employer's eyes form a wholistic picture of an applicant from a general predictability/known quantity perspective.

That is always going to be the case, and fighting it will always come across as sour grapes. If you want a job that requires a degree, get the degree. It's as simple as that.
 

waveflyer

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Yip- fighting a losing battle on this one-

education and love of learning is an important aspect of every life and our country-

no person will be as smart alone as they would be if they were exposed to other minds and ideas- noone so great that they cannot benefit from others and bounce their ideas off of others
 

pilotyip

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Yip- fighting a losing battle on this one-

education and love of learning is an important aspect of every life and our country-

no person will be as smart alone as they would be if they were exposed to other minds and ideas- noone so great that they cannot benefit from others and bounce their ideas off of others
couldn't agree more, but there are many places to learn besides college, of course being a lib you would look down on anyone who learned a skilled trade, I mean they might even make enough money to move into your neighborhood, there kids might even play with your kids,
 

StopNTSing

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I have a commercial and CFI. I keep thinking about getting my ATP for fun but that is another thread and let me say this. It is much easier to fly a jet and input data to an FMS than it is to write a complex computer program.

As someone who has apparently never flown a jet before, just where do you get off making a statement like that?
 

waveflyer

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Seriously yip

"you being a lib"

yeah- bc we all know if there's anything more republican it's blue collar skilled tradesman-you know Nothing shows support for the union worker like a GOP convention
 

pilotyip

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Gpo?

Seriously yip

"you being a lib"

yeah- bc we all know if there's anything more republican it's blue collar skilled tradesman-you know Nothing shows support for the union worker like a GOP convention
But But But they don't have college degrees, how can they be productive members of society? Didn't you say only those who go to college continue to learn. An elitist attitude that fits a lib perfectly? BTW Many blue collar non-union small business owners strongly support the GOP
 

waveflyer

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Dude- if you're stereotyping- you're not getting me
 

27 driver

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What a load of crap. Getting a private pilot's license requires the intellectual capability of maybe a 9th or 10th grader. It does require some coordination, common sense and intelligence but no more than what is required to be a nurse or something like that.

The barrier to entry is that is costs a crap ton of money and entry level jobs pay very little. In addition, if you pick the wrong airline you are screwed and have to start all over at the bottom when they go out of business.

I have a commercial and CFI. I keep thinking about getting my ATP for fun but that is another thread and let me say this. It is much easier to fly a jet and input data to an FMS than it is to write a complex computer program.

The future of aviation is... wait for it... wait for it... I can see the future....


Ticket prices are going up. The number of airlines / flights is going down. Pilot wages will stagnate right where they are now. Fewer people will be flying and corporate flying will not be making a come back any time soon either.

That's why I program computers. I get paid 100K a year. And that is in the South! I get 5 weeks of vacation and 5 weeks of sick time and I go to the gym for an hour at lunch every day.

I like flying airplanes a whole lot more but darned if I could find a job that wasn't ********************ty :)

I think you missed the point of the article. In every day flying it is an easy job once you get there. Its when the ********************e hits the fan that not every one should be in the cockpit. And not even you could program every scenario into the on board computer. I am glad you found happiness in a cubicle punching a keyboard. For some that would be misery. The movie Office Space comes to mind. You are right about pilots salary and a stagnant aviation industry though.
 

sleeves

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My point is that it takes a lot more than just punching routes & altitudes into the FMS to fly an airliner. That is, if you want to be a professional and do the job right.

It is an easy JOB......to do poorly. You can sit back as slack off for years and get away with it. Some have done so for a career. Some day some of us are going to have to rely on extensive knowledge and good habit formations to evade catastrophe. Fate picks who has to show their skills, or Lack thereof. Just ask Sully.
 

say again

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Flying has it's challenges, but to me, it's more of a rewarding experience.

A degree has nothing to do with flying, but all do do with hiring. I wish some would figure this out.
 

pilotyip

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Dude- if you're stereotyping- you're not getting me
yes you are correct, I am not getting you. We are all a team except for those I don't consider team players?
 

bluesideup340

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and we didn't think we were special, notice nothing about the college degree being the true clear indication of a professional pilot. BTW I greased in my landing in the B-17 yesterday, life is good.

Pilotyip for the most part I enjoy your posts, although I might not always agree with everything you have to say. For the most part your posts are well written and thoughtful. But it seems you repeatedly get stuck on the subject of degree and college education. Yes I agree you do not need a college degree to fly an airplane. That being said, why do you bring this subject up so often? It appears that the lack of a college degree bothers you more than us. Time to move on.

Cheers,
 

pilotyip

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Pilotyip for the most part I enjoy your posts, although I might not always agree with everything you have to say. For the most part your posts are well written and thoughtful. But it seems you repeatedly get stuck on the subject of degree and college education. Yes I agree you do not need a college degree to fly an airplane. That being said, why do you bring this subject up so often? It appears that the lack of a college degree bothers you more than us. Time to move on.

Cheers,
Thanks for your kind remarks. It is my trade mark, I have a reputation to live up to. It is all in fun, sometimes just to get a rise out of the college is the only way crowd.
 

waveflyer

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You mixing threads yip?
 

cynic

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I'll bet $1 pilotyip is also highly religious!
 

pilotyip

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I'll bet $1 pilotyip is also highly religious!
define highly religious? Go to church yea, carry a bible no, follow most of the 10 commandants, you know like not stealing killing, being nice to mom and dad yea. Big believer, like Winston Churchill, in Christian civilization. His famous speech goes something like this. " ...I expect the Battle of Britain is about to begin, upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization upon it depends our own British...........". The kinda, don’t judge, do unto others, be charitable, etc that kinda Christian civilization stuff. Did you win your $1?
 

UALRATT

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define highly religious? Go to church yea, carry a bible no, follow most of the 10 commandants, you know like not stealing killing, being nice to mom and dad yea. Big believer, like Winston Churchill, in Christian civilization. His famous speech goes something like this. " ...I expect the Battle of Britain is about to begin, upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization upon it depends our own British...........". The kinda, don’t judge, do unto others, be charitable, etc that kinda Christian civilization stuff. Did you win your $1?

Yip, sounds like you picked that up in the Humanity and Western Civilization class at your college or that your kids just bankrupted your retirement account just getting through college and you couldn't convince them otherwise...No joke man!!
 

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