Forbes article on pilots...

[pilotyip]

College has nothing to do with the ability to fly an airplane

What a load of crap. Getting a private pilot's license requires the intellectual capability of maybe a 9th or 10th grader. It does require some coordination, common sense and intelligence but no more than what is required to be a nurse or something like that.

Back to the begining, there are many college degrees that you can get a degree from that will not challenge you beyond your supposed 9th 10th grade level. Remember WWII, the sky was filled with mostly high school grads and they did a great job.

 

[Traderd]

That's why I program computers. I get paid 100K a year. And that is in the South! I get 5 weeks of vacation and 5 weeks of sick time and I go to the gym for an hour at lunch every day.

I like flying airplanes a whole lot more but darned if I could find a job that wasn't ********************ty

Serious question. How is it your functions have not been outsourced to India or some such place? Is outsourcing a threat to your position? If not, congratulations and more power to you. Wish it were the case for a lot more US jobs.

I ask because I have some personal experience with developers in the south who have recently taken that hit.

I don't think anyone seriously considers the obtainment of a PPL to be one of life's great challenges. Recall it was a woman who wrote the article. Maybe she looks like "Aunt Bea?" (just dated myself big time with that reference)

 

[cynic]

In my case, I work for a very large university and it would be difficult to outsource the custom applications development required to process 1/2 billion in financial aid and student payment, online course registration, etc...

You really need workers on site to do that.

And yes... Coding in C++/Perl/Java/C Sharp is more complicated than putting a hold into an FMS. I'd be surprised if anyone would argue with that

 

[Baze]

In my case, I work for a very large university and it would be difficult to outsource the custom applications development required to process 1/2 billion in financial aid and student payment, online course registration, etc...

You really need workers on site to do that.

And yes... Coding in C++/Perl/Java/C Sharp is more complicated than putting a hold into an FMS. I'd be surprised if anyone would argue with that

I'm not arguing that at all. As a matter of fact, I was a software engineer before I switched careers. I absolutely hated coding & compiling and being in an office all day long, but I digress.

My point is that it takes a lot more than just punching routes & altitudes into the FMS to fly an airliner. That is, if you want to be a professional and do the job right.

As for the issue of somehow highly educated & intellectual people having no problems with taking flying lessons and earning their PPL... I was a flight instructor and my best stick and rudder student was a 17-year-old. I had a few other students who were highly educated and academically accomplished (software engineer @ Microsoft, a CPA, etc.) and these were the guys who struggled with the flying. One thing is for sure, though, they were great at hitting the books.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- it sounds like Cynic's tried to flame in the 1st post- but doubt anyone will take much exception to it-
I know for a fact every engineer works harder than me-
I know for a fact every construction worker WORKS harder-

but I was also a flight instructor and dabble in it now- I know for a fact that not everyone could or would choose to do my job- it's like a lesser version of the guys sitting around the tv yelling at how some pro athlete sucks- there are a lot of people who think they can do my job- and they might be right-

But doing it- day in and day out - and doing what you have to do to get my job- is a lot different than just believing you can.

And at your particular job- No one dies if you mess it up-

That only sounds dramatic until a friend and good pilot flies west- none of us that do the job are scared of that- but we're under no illusions about it either-
it's why major airline pilots give so much respect to the mil&commuter/cargo pilots coming up- bc they know what these pilots do everyday fighting for their country or their career

 

[P38JLightning]

Remember WWII, the sky was filled with mostly high school grads and they did a great job.

True, however it's fair to say things were just a wee bit less computerized, integrated and regulatory back then. By far. By big time far.

Those guys were stick and rudder to the core, and hats off to them all. Yet combat aside, I bet they still crashed/errored in some way/etc at a rate far in excess of what is found today. They were also considered to be very, very expendable. The beaches we stormed were filled with mostly high school (or lower) graduates as well, and they did a great job. This really isn't a relevant comparison to anything going on today.

Do you "need" a degree to operate the controls and FMS of a plane? Of course not. You don't "need" a degree for anything. Nothing. Take the education of the average heart surgeon. Now subtract one mandatory history class back in his/her sophomore year of college and assume that person still went on to get all other required training/residence/internship/etc.

That person would be trained to the exact same standard, skill, etc. only with no degree. They would be just as good as all their peers with degrees, no doubt. The degree itself is not a catch all failsafe, it was never intended to be. It is simply a gateway. Everything involved in getting a college degree isn't necessary in ANY profession, EVER. Not pilot, not nurse, not doctor, not lawyer, not computer programmer, not anything. Ever. Never will be. But degrees are still a valid wholesale measurement of one's ability to succeed in a given profession, despite the fact that it's validity in measuring such is and never will be perfect.

You could train someone to be a great airline pilot without ever doing a single eights on pylons. You can be a great airline pilot without a degree. Yet eights on pylons are required by regs. Many employers require degrees. That doesn't mean that anyone who has a degree is awesome and anyone who does not sucks. It is simply a gateway. One of many, actually, which, taken in the aggregate with all the other ones, helps in many, many employer's eyes form a wholistic picture of an applicant from a general predictability/known quantity perspective.

That is always going to be the case, and fighting it will always come across as sour grapes. If you want a job that requires a degree, get the degree. It's as simple as that.

 

[waveflyer]

Yip- fighting a losing battle on this one-

education and love of learning is an important aspect of every life and our country-

no person will be as smart alone as they would be if they were exposed to other minds and ideas- noone so great that they cannot benefit from others and bounce their ideas off of others

 

[pilotyip]

Yip- fighting a losing battle on this one-

education and love of learning is an important aspect of every life and our country-

no person will be as smart alone as they would be if they were exposed to other minds and ideas- noone so great that they cannot benefit from others and bounce their ideas off of others

couldn't agree more, but there are many places to learn besides college, of course being a lib you would look down on anyone who learned a skilled trade, I mean they might even make enough money to move into your neighborhood, there kids might even play with your kids,

 

[StopNTSing]

I have a commercial and CFI. I keep thinking about getting my ATP for fun but that is another thread and let me say this. It is much easier to fly a jet and input data to an FMS than it is to write a complex computer program.

As someone who has apparently never flown a jet before, just where do you get off making a statement like that?

 

[waveflyer]

Seriously yip

"you being a lib"

yeah- bc we all know if there's anything more republican it's blue collar skilled tradesman-you know Nothing shows support for the union worker like a GOP convention

 

[pilotyip]

Gpo?

Seriously yip

"you being a lib"

yeah- bc we all know if there's anything more republican it's blue collar skilled tradesman-you know Nothing shows support for the union worker like a GOP convention

But But But they don't have college degrees, how can they be productive members of society? Didn't you say only those who go to college continue to learn. An elitist attitude that fits a lib perfectly? BTW Many blue collar non-union small business owners strongly support the GOP

 

[waveflyer]

Dude- if you're stereotyping- you're not getting me

 

[27 driver]

What a load of crap. Getting a private pilot's license requires the intellectual capability of maybe a 9th or 10th grader. It does require some coordination, common sense and intelligence but no more than what is required to be a nurse or something like that.

The barrier to entry is that is costs a crap ton of money and entry level jobs pay very little. In addition, if you pick the wrong airline you are screwed and have to start all over at the bottom when they go out of business.

I have a commercial and CFI. I keep thinking about getting my ATP for fun but that is another thread and let me say this. It is much easier to fly a jet and input data to an FMS than it is to write a complex computer program.

The future of aviation is... wait for it... wait for it... I can see the future....


Ticket prices are going up. The number of airlines / flights is going down. Pilot wages will stagnate right where they are now. Fewer people will be flying and corporate flying will not be making a come back any time soon either.

That's why I program computers. I get paid 100K a year. And that is in the South! I get 5 weeks of vacation and 5 weeks of sick time and I go to the gym for an hour at lunch every day.

I like flying airplanes a whole lot more but darned if I could find a job that wasn't ********************ty

I think you missed the point of the article. In every day flying it is an easy job once you get there. Its when the ********************e hits the fan that not every one should be in the cockpit. And not even you could program every scenario into the on board computer. I am glad you found happiness in a cubicle punching a keyboard. For some that would be misery. The movie Office Space comes to mind. You are right about pilots salary and a stagnant aviation industry though.

 

[sleeves]

My point is that it takes a lot more than just punching routes & altitudes into the FMS to fly an airliner. That is, if you want to be a professional and do the job right.

It is an easy JOB......to do poorly. You can sit back as slack off for years and get away with it. Some have done so for a career. Some day some of us are going to have to rely on extensive knowledge and good habit formations to evade catastrophe. Fate picks who has to show their skills, or Lack thereof. Just ask Sully.

 

[say again]

Flying has it's challenges, but to me, it's more of a rewarding experience.

A degree has nothing to do with flying, but all do do with hiring. I wish some would figure this out.