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Forbes article on pilots...

gutshotdraw

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When you stereotype me or anyone else for any reason - you're subscribing to a collectivism that is blatantly unamerican

That's rich coming from a person who supports a President that TOTALLY believes in Collectivism.
 

pilotyip

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Is having a degree a valid indicator of anything?

For example, if someone has been fired after 1 year from each of their last 5 jobs I can make some accurate guesses about that person. Maybe they are just unlucky and got stuck with a truly awful boss five times in a row but it seems unlikely....

So can we make any assumptions about a person that has successfully and voluntarily completed at least 4 years of schooling beyond what is required? Of is this fact as random as noting a preference for chocolate over vanilla? That is, it indicates absolutely nothing about the person.
Not sure I follow, I would be leary of a man who was fired 5 times in five years, that is outside the norm. I make no more assumptions about someone finishing their degree, than I do about someone who did something else of equal effort and time to complete. Such as a high school graduate who completed Army Flight Training. A man who put himself through A&P school and has been fixing airplanes for many years. College is not the only proof of a person's ability. I bet you are a college graduate. BTW No one in our interview process has ever been ask about college, or requested to produce a transcript. Here is where our pilots have gone DAL, NWA, UPS, FedEx, AAL, JB, NJ, SWA, CAL, Airtran,. Spirit. etc. Many of they without a college degree.
 

waveflyer

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That's rich coming from a person who supports a President that TOTALLY believes in Collectivism.

No- it's IRONIC that such a trait is so widespread among conservatives when they're busy making up stories about obama's communist tendencies.
 

waveflyer

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Look- I value my degree bc I worked hard for it and really developed my character and deepened my overall and aviation knowledge.

I also worked my way through so I see no advantage that someone who just entered the job market while I was doing both school and job.

None of us would cheapen a military education- but that's a quantifiable objective and result. Those who served and have a good mil record should and do have a leg up on me.

Bottom line- everyone is trying to judge a persons capabilities and character- you may pull a W and use your gut-
the rest of the world looks at your degree. And even moreso at your work experience and performance in an interview

****but that baseline of education and completion of an objective goal- the connections and social skills learned by the completion of a college degree is something that 95% of all major airline pilots have.

There are 80,000 pilots- each percent is 800 pilots- of course you know people who have done it w/o a degree- we all do-

it's just simply a mark against you that you'll have to explain- but the odds are not with you-

and for what- bc you don't want to sacrifice the time and money like 95% of your peers did?

Good luck-

broken record Yip-

I consider your posts pilots wanted ads- preferably w/o degrees so you can hold on to them longer
 

barnyard

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All part of the coming 2012 hiring boom. Fly because you like to, if you are in it for money, respect, prestige, or recognition, you may be disappointed.

Kinda like the 07-08 "hiring boom" you were talking about in '04?
 

pilotyip

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Good luck-

broken record Yip-

I consider your posts pilots wanted ads- preferably w/o degrees so you can hold on to them longer
Sure that is why our pilots have gone on to, NWA, UPS, FedEx, AAL, JB, NJ, SWA, CAL, Airtran,. Spirit. etc. Many of they without a college degree. But I guess you are right the way you did it is the only way to be successful.
Kinda like the 07-08 "hiring boom" you were talking about in '04?
was there not a hiring boom in 2007?, followed by age 65, followed by a recession, just delayed hiring a while. Great time to become a pilot
 
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crj567

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Sure that is why our pilots have gone on to, NWA, UPS, FedEx, AAL, JB, NJ, SWA, CAL, Airtran,. Spirit. etc. Many of they without a college degree. But I guess you are right the way you did it is the only way to be successful.
was there not a hiring boom in 2007?, followed by age 65, followed by a recession, just delayed hiring a while. Great time to become a pilot

I have never come across any pilot who made it to any major without a degree. I guess you somehow know the lucky few.
 

Abernathy

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Kinda like the 07-08 "hiring boom" you were talking about in '04?

There was a hiring boom in 07-08, guy. The regionals were hiring 18 year olds with 220 hours into the right seat of RJs. What could go wrong?
 

The Prussian

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A college degree helps you get:

--an airline job...

--another job in case the airline thing doesn't work out...

--a sense of accomplishment which can contribute to self esteem, so you don't have to spend the rest of your life on Flt Info justifying why it's not that important (disagree), and that you're just as smart as everybody else (maybe, and maybe not), and what's more important is the content of you're character (strongly agree)...


...and that's all I got to say about that....;)
 

pilotyip

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Nope just skilled, college manifesto

I have never come across any pilot who made it to any major without a degree. I guess you somehow know the lucky few.
Nope only know pilots who had so much together that they did not need the degree. I know that is very hard for the college only crowd to believe.

It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing could is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. I have said never don’t get a degree, I have admitted that it will probably open doors, but it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. It is only a box to be checked on an application. Going to a 4 yr. college out of high school is not the only way to get your degree. This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he should had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tuition assistance program, and no debt. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr. degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive? For the “College Only” crowd, there are many ways to skin a cat, you have your way that you feel is the only way anyone should do things. "The way I did it". I do not agree with you, if my grandson elected to pursue a pilots career, I will recommend he not go to college full time, but follow the other time tested path where I have seen too many people succeed. That is fly full time, do your degree on the side, build time, build your resume. I will not debate the fall back value of a college degree, as I have stated many times it is nearly worthless after not being used for 30 years. Let me give you the background on the college degree thing. I do not judge a man by his degree, where he lives, or what he does for a living. I judge a man on the content of his character. I find the college degrees only crowd here, a bit arrogant, a smacking of if you does not have a degree you are not as good as I. I know too many people who are successful and fine men who do not have a degree, I know many people with degrees who will never make any impact upon anything. I know too many pilots without degrees who I consider some of the most successful people I know. I admire them and the lives they have built. So I bait, about the non-importance of the college degree in this business. I think this sets off the college degree only crowd because it distorts their view of what they have done. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. BTW Our on-line degree pilot was offered a job by a major.
 
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aewanabe

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I have never come across any pilot who made it to any major without a degree. I guess you somehow know the lucky few.

In 2007 I was hired by both Northwest and JetBlue and offered an interview at USAirways, all with no degree (albeit with 2 years complete and enrolled in online courses). Ironically, Delta was the only legacy I truly wanted, and I couldn't even apply there without it (and NWA offered the job after I was already doing IOE with JetBlue, so I turned them down. Go figure).

So it's possible, but also limiting.
 

pilotyip

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2007

In 2007 I was hired by both Northwest and JetBlue and offered an interview at USAirways, all with no degree (albeit with 2 years complete and enrolled in online courses). Ironically, Delta was the only legacy I truly wanted, and I couldn't even apply there without it (and NWA offered the job after I was already doing IOE with JetBlue, so I turned them down. Go figure).

So it's possible, but also limiting.
part of the 2007 hiring boom
 

aewanabe

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Sure, it was a short-lived boom. The problem is, aviation booms always seem to last right into the bust. I had plenty of buds make it to United, USAirways, and UPS in 2007 only to lose their jobs in 2008 (or -10 for the UPS guys).

I wanted to add that I don't advocate skipping the degree; my circumstances were not by choice and it's a much harder road without it. It's also harder finishing up in your 30s with a career and family. I've both been fortunate and worked my tail off to succeed to this point, but have definitely missed some opportunities.
 

waveflyer

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And there you have it.
Possible- but seniority being what it is- why would you not?
 

dillfer

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C'mon everybody on this board knows that flying is not that hard. Granted you've got to have a pretty thorough understanding of meteorology, electronics, engineering, lawyer speak, aerodynamics, hydraulics, pnuematics, basic physiology. In some instances you should have good customer service skills. You've got to know a little bit about fire suppression, be able to interpret what all of your instruments are telling you while navigating through a thunderstorm while briefing an ILS approach that's probably going to put you into a missed to an NDB to hold over a VOR, to get ready to do it all over again. An approach that you probably shot at the end of a 12 or 14 or possibly 16 hour day. Also you've got to posses the hand eye coordination to actually FLY an airplane. Not to mention, you've got to keep yourself in pretty good shape to make sure that you pass a class 1 medical, and a checkride every 6 months to make sure that you're still competent. Either of which can screw your career if you fail. Really, anybody can do it. I believe that just about anybody could be taught to program a computer, I don't think that anybody can be taught to fly an airplane.

Also, it doesn't matter if you have a degree or not. It's just a way for them to weed through all of the applicants. That's what I think anyway.
 

pilotyip

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C'mon everybody on this board knows that flying is not that hard. I believe that just about anybody could be taught to program a computer, I don't think that anybody can be taught to fly an airplane.

Also, it doesn't matter if you have a degree or not. It's just a way for them to weed through all of the applicants. That's what I think anyway.
My belief is anyone with a basic level of skill and desire can learn to fly an airplane, and as many have stated it has nothing to do with a college degree.
 

dillfer

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My belief is anyone with a basic level of skill and desire can learn to fly an airplane, and as many have stated it has nothing to do with a college degree.
Anybody with a "basic level of skill" and desire can probably solo or obtain a private license. Takes a little bit more than "basic level of skill" to go beyond that. And I guess that I'm restating what many have already stated then about the college degree thing. Thanks. :)
 

Paradoxus

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I've flown with legions of degreed crewmembers with the intellectual capacities\interests of a toilet brush, mostly due to the grotesque popularity of non-scholarly disciplines (economics, accounting, business, etc.).
 

Paradoxus

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My belief is anyone with a basic level of skill and desire can learn to fly an airplane, and as many have stated it has nothing to do with a college degree.


Salient truth. There is simply no solid reason for this arcane "requirement" in the information age. If you want to accurately measure the cognitive capabilities of a candidate, an informal essay would be an infinitely more-revealing litmus.

No, they'll protest, a degree is evidence of commitment, as if somehow the journey of certification and experience is insufficient.

Personally, I'd rather fly with someone not under the impression the Battle of Britain was a Rage Against the Machine album, however.
 

waveflyer

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I forgot paradox-
did you get your degree in pelican bay or Folsom?
;-)
 
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