For those of you who are thinking of voting for Kerry...........

[brew3departure]

Fair and balanced? Heh...

Preach on, furlough-boy...

Look, back to the original question of the thread. Who gives a flying **** what airplane Kerry is flying around. If you want to vote based on purely selfish reasons, which IMHO isn't necessarily a bad thing, here you go.

OIL PRICES. End of story. Right? What is crude selling for today? Close to $54/barrel? Do I hear $60 before election day?

They just broke a news story today that said in the history of Illinois, no county outside Cook has ever sold premium gasoline for $2.50/gal until today. How about 'dem apples?

On the same token, I'm still waiting - I'm waiting for the $19.99 fare that somebody introduces. Actually, NWA had it for a brief time - when they expanded into IND, they said we'll beat anyone's prices by $30 as a promotional startup. ATA's fare to somewhere, Ft. Myers or some such place, was $49...end result, you have a ticket on a major airline for $19. How sad is that. I'm not blaming any of these airlines here, either, don't get me wrong. Prices like this, though, plus the highest fuel costs EVER...in who's world, on what PLANET is that good for you and I? Anyone? And, might I add, who is laughing all the way to the bank? Oil companies? And _where_ do we find a lot of those types of folks? Oh, wait...right...the great state of Texas. Why does that concern me? Oh, yeah...that's where our fearless leader is from. Hmm. Even if there isn't a connection there, which you and I will never know for certain, makes you think just a little bit, right? Or maybe it doesn't.

If you want to vote selfishly and and _one_ issue, crude oil approaching $60/barrel doesn't sound real good to me. Considering what we do - we drive FUEL HUNGRY airplanes that use a lot of this stuff.

I'm brew3departure, and I approve this message. I have yet to "vote early" but when I do, it will be for Kerry.

For all you Kerry haters, bash him on something else - not the choice of airplane or airline he's using. Good lord.

-brew3

 

[Tim47SIP]

Furlough

The president sold us a load of BS about the imminent threat.

This is just one example of your many irresponible and incorrect facts used to pursuade someone to your side if the issue. The problem here is that eveything you have used to explain Bushes failures and lies has been lies themselves. Hint for you, quit quoting Moore's garbage, you might come across as remotely knowing what you are talking about. In case you forgot, Bush NEVER stated that SH was an imminent threat. He stated "although not an immediate threat....". He also went on to state that the plan was for preemptive reasons. Not agreeing with the reasons he did what he did is one thing. But to lie to further your cause is another.

 

[MachPi]

“This is about an imminent threat,” said White House spokesman Scott McClellan on February 10, 2003, when speaking about NATO's need to stand with the United States.

On May 7, 2003, in response to: “Didn't we go to war because we said WMD were a direct and imminent threat to the U.S.?” Ari Fleischer said: “Absolutely."

So you're right, Bush didn't say it. His mouthpieces did. Here's what Bush said:

“The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency.” (October 2, 2002)
“The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands.” (November 23, 2002)
“I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq.” (November 1, 2002)
“This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined.” (September 26, 2002)

So again, you're technically right that he himself didn't put the word "imminent" and the word "threat" right next to each other.

 

[ivauir]

They got rid of the WMD's when the U.N. told them to after the 1991 gulf war. Saddam was a bad guy, but he was contained and no threat to the U.S.

I disagree with your last statement, but I'll leave it to someone else to argue. As to your first statement the ONLY reason we know that is because we went to war. 12 years of UN sanctions and inspections and we had every reason to think that he still had WMD.

BTW one of te most important rights in a democracy is for the ballot to be SECRET. I love freedom so you'll never know who I vote for.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

W

I guess you'all know where I stand.

W

 

[BAFAN]

Here's my 2 cents worth, and my second post ever on this board, but I couldn't stand by without throwing in my bit.....

I have to laugh when I hear the Bush-bashers condemn his offensive position in taking the war to Iraq. Imagine Bush stuck with Kerry's "plan" to "work unilaterally" with "broad coalitions" and "allow sanctions to do their work". Well, SH would still be in power, gaming the sanctions to his own benefit, and doing WHO KNOWS WHAT with his weapons. Meanwhile, Al Qaida would no doubt be more organized and working overtime to terrorize the U.S. in WHO KNOWS WHAT ways, like we saw on that dreadful day in September 2001. If we as a nation had come under any other kinds of attacks here domestically, or our interests abroad, Kerry and the Dems would be screaming bloody hell that Bush didn't do enough....he's weak.....we need a stronger leader..."we need to feel safe again"...blah blah blah. Frankly, Bush is **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if he does, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if he doesnt. Why? Because that's politics, and it's election season. So, how does he handle being in this situation? He stands firm. He takes responsibility for his actions, regardless of the fact that MANY don't like him and the decisions that he has made. Bush was behind the 8-ball from the election of 2000....we all know why. "He stole the election"...blah blah blah. The point here is that I have to admire George W. Bush's firm stand on principle. He doesn't shrink behind his decisions. He TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for them. Sure, there were no WMD's. Heck, Kerry himself was caught by surprise by this. He admits to this himself, but then goes on to say how Bush "rushed to war"....etc etc. Geez, how many United Nations Resolutions does it take to make everyone happy?? If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that santions were'nt working. Period. Saddam was gaming the system. So...do we stand by and "hope it gets better?" I'm glad we have a president who was willing to go the tough route and take the offense and take the war off of US soil....where the terrorists recruit, train and plan. No finger in the winds of public opinion here. He did what he felt was right and I admire him for it.

As for ALPA's stance in supporting Kerry, I can't blame them. ALPA needs to recommend the candidate that best supports our unions. Kerry is plainly more the "union guy". I admit it. But I refuse to vote simply based on my WALLET. That's flat out ludicrous. I'm voting based on more important things.....the security of our country, for one! I want a leader who is firm and knows where he stands, not one who will say whatever it takes to win the votes or the public opinion polls. Not one who puts so much emphasis on the "global alliances" that he'll be the least bit defensive in the war on terrorism. One more attack like 9-11 and PAY RATES, DUTY RIGS, RETIREMENTS, ADVANCEMENT, etc. will be minor concerns of ours! We'll hope and pray that our industry survives, that our companies survive, that our PEOPLE survive. I'm voting based on principle, not my selfish career ambitions and bank account.

There. I'm done. Let the attacks begin.

Go Bush.

 

[BAFAN]

Okay, what's the deal with ****CENSORED***** in my post?? I didnt say anything that should've been censored.....what am I missing here?
As Chris Farley would say,

"My first real post and I get CENSORED! I SUCK!!!!"

 

[BAFAN]

Oh...I know what happened....
sorry guys....
I said "Bush is dam_ned if he does, and dam_ned if he doesnt". Hey, the censor thing works!

 

[Benhuntn]

Al Aqueda where????

Let me see if I can get this straight. There were Jihadists in Afghanistan, and the Phillipines, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran Yemen, Florida, Minn. Arizona, but nope last I checked none in Iraq. Boy were we idiots for falling for that one and attacking a country as innocent as they were. Yep, you are right Bush tricked us...Maybe the next Jihad will be in the back of your jet, but don't worry, if Kerry is elected they will be from France or Germany or Spain or some other socialist country that has fallen prey to weak leadership.

 

[SennaP1]

http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/chappellesshow/showclips.jhtml?startIndex=13


click on President Black Bush

D. Chappelle's skit at Comedy Central (the home of Indecision 2004)


"Be real SON"

"Do I need to tell you what you can do with aluminum tubes, ALUMINUM!!"

 

[kevdog]

I'm voting for Kerry because:

1. The economy is GREAT!
2. The airline industry is GREAT!
3. The war in Iraq is going GREAT!
4. The environment is GREAT!
5. Homeland Security is GREAT!
6. The National Deficit is GREAT!
7. Blow Jobs are BAD!

 

[FDJ2]

The Bush administration:
--Espoused a “no strike” policy in the Airline Industry prior to 9/11 and imposed two Presidential Emergency Boards preventing self help.

--Opposed the Federal Flight Deck Officers program.

--Unilaterally implemented a new FAA rule revoking airman certificates of those considered by the Transportation Security Administration to be “security risks”, with no appeal process.

--Resisted temporary pension relief legislation for 15 months and signed the bill only in the face of overwhelming bipartisan congressional support.

--Singled out the airline industry as the only industry required to directly fund federal programs that Congress has designated as “National Security.” The Bush Administration is proposing to raise taxes paid by airlines under the Aviation Security Infrastructure Fee by hundreds of millions of dollars.

--Proposed cutting overtime wages for as many as eight million workers despite the loss of 1.6 million private sector jobs during his administration.

--Took away the rights of 60,000 airport screeners to join a union while canceling the collective bargaining rights of 170,000 workers as part of legislation to create the Homeland Security Department.

--Invoked the Taft-Hartley act to keep West Coast ports open despite a lockout by management.

--Signed an Executive Order stripping the air traffic control system of its designation as an “inherently governmental” operation. Proposed privatization by part-time contract employees.

--Proposed onerous time consuming new reporting rules (LM2) for labor unions that will significantly raise the cost of unions conducting their business.

On the other hand, Sen. Kerry’s voting record is 180 degrees in the other direction. Senator Kerry:

--Voted to establish a Blue Ribbon Panel to review the Eastern Airlines situation under Frank Lorenzo. Vetoed by then President George H.W. Bush

--Voted for $5 billion in direct aid, as well as $10 billion in loans to assist the airlines immediately following September 11th.

--Supported the Federal Flight Deck Officers program.

--Supported measures to elevate cargo security and passenger screening

--Supported efforts to ban the use of permanent replacement workers during labor strikes.

--Opposed baseball style binding arbitration legislation.

--Supported whistleblower protection for airline employees.

--Voted to protect workers’ overtime rights from the Bush Administration’s proposal to change thee Fair Labor Standards Act.

--Co-sponsored legislation to restore the bargaining rights of tens of thousands of federal workers at the Homeland Security Department.

--Pledged, if elected President, to oppose the efforts to outsource the jobs of U.S. airline workers through the weakening of “Cabotage” rules and relaxing foreign ownership caps.

 

[LEROY]

I'm waiting to hear what John Kerry is going to promise to do about all the hurricanes hitting Florida. Surely this is the fault of the current administration. He's promised everything else, why not promise a change in the weather?

A list of complaints doesn't make a plan, last time I checked. Blaming Dubya for oil prices or jobs lost (3000+ of which were fatalities on 9/11) or even the recession he INHERITED from that last fat b@stard we had for a leader is just about as naive as blaming the fate of the legacy carriers on his administration - there's just no connection.

That's just my opinion...

 

[SiuDude]

I may vote Libertarian, but I most certainly won't be voting for the Two Johns.

enigma

Amen!

 

[Corona]

One thing FDJ2 left out was the brilliant Bush proposal to save taxpayer's money by cutting combat pay in half for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. I couldn't believe it when I first read it, and it made my blood boil. I just can't reckon a Commander-in-Chief doing that to soldiers in the field.

Blame Bush for the hurricanes? Don't be ridiculous. However, all us weather-savvy pilots know that hurricanes are the express-lane transfer of heat from equatorial latitudes to polar latitudes. I've never seen so many hurricanes in FL and I lived there for many years. More frequent and more severe storms has long been one predicted result of global warming. "W" still is in denial about global warming, even though his own White House has acknowledged it is happening, and that human activity is a major cause. Maybe if he actually read a newspaper or book every now and then...

 

[knelis]

I vote for Bush too!

 

[LEROY]

We Have A Winner!!!

I knew it wouldn't take long to get some Johns supporter to make a link between hurricanes and Dubya! Beautiful, thank you, Corona, for perfectly illustrating the ridiculously distorted viewpoint of the ABB crowd.

BTW I'm not sure where you got your info on Bush cutting combat pay. My last HAZ DUTY pay amount was just as large as it always has been...

 

[Tomct]

Hey Leroy, Corona is just trying to start another bash session! Your statement was totally true. Go W!! Kick A$$!!

 

[Corona]

Leroy, your reading skills are on par with many posters writing skills. Since you can't be bothered to actually read my post, I've included the following:

Here are the results of all of three minutes of Google searching:

First, from the highly pinko liberal Army Times, an editorial on how Bush should not cut combat pay for troops.
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292259-1989240.php

And, here's a liberal pinko Congressional Democrat writing Bush asking him not to cut combat pay for our troops in combat zones.
http://www.house.gov/mthompson/press_release_Pentagon_Cut_Letter.htm

Finally, here is the liberal pinko National Business Review with a fairly balanced article on global warming science.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=10203&cid=3&cname=Technology
http://forums.flightinfo.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Your Haz. Duty pay has not changed because saner heads, both Democrat and Republican, prevailed. Not Bush.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Just wonder if those who supported Clinton and will support Kerry are bothered if "their" guys did the "pay cuts" or would it be a non-issue? Also, did Clinton save us from global warming and/or will Kerry? Probably not. Makes good politics though.

And one more thing....regarding GWB's drinking problem. I have no problems with it. If fact, I had no problems with Clinton's alleged drug problems because he did such a great job. Ted Kennedy got drunk and killed another person but look what a swell guy he turned out to be. So GWB's drinking problem is no big deal.

 

[surplus1]

Folks living in a glass house should be cautious about throwing rocks.

I remember that while striking rEAL pilots were picketing the ALPA headquarters at 1625 Mass. Ave., the then President was ordering catering from outside and union workers from the catering company declined to cross the rEAL picket line. That day there were no "D-burgers" served @ 1625.

I remember that a certain union called ALPA frequently rents hotel facilities, in large quantity, from an anti-union hotel chain called Mariott and came very close to holding its bi-annual BOD meeting in a non-union hotel with some workers on strike (until some pilots blew the whistle).

Find a legitimate reason to support or reject your favorite candidate. Grasping at trivia about who charters which airplane fortells a level of desperation in the anti-Kerry camp.

Three more weeks, then back to Crawford.

 

[vc10]

George Bush turned Iraq into the world's largest terrorist training camp. The guys who graduate from this camp will spread terror over the entire world. Further, Bush is the greatest terrorist recruiter the world has ever known. Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden couldn't have asked for more. For many people, Iraq is an immeasurably worse place to live than it was under Saddam Hussein. There's no security---not even within the "secure" Green Zone. There are thousands, maybe millions of seriously embittered Iraqis, some fraction of whom will take up arms against what they see as the occupier. Bush is radicalizing an entire generation of Arabs to hate us. We're going to pay for that and it's the fault of George Bush.

Further, in 10 years, many of the homeless we see on the streets will be the mentally and physically traumatized US vets from Iraq. Beyond the 1000+ boys in bodybags, and the 6000-7000 injured, a lot of guys are coming back with traumatic stress disorder. Just the same way many Vietnam vets ended up on the streets, we'll have a bunch of Iraq vets on the streets. Count on it. Lives ruined, for what?

We've probably already lost Iraq. It may take another few years for that to become painfully apparent, but our invasion of Iraq is a foreign policy disaster that will haunt us for decades, probably even worse than Vietnam. For whatever reason, our defeat in Vietnam at least never resulted in collateral terrorism directed against the US. Pretty clear that won't happen this time.

We have the right to go after terrorists. We have the right to pre-emptively attack threats against us. But we took our eye off the ball (Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden) and went after something that was, at best, an unproven threat. North Korea, Iran---those were the next biggest threats after Al Qaeda---and we knew it. North Korea had _proven_ nuke capability. Iran was well known to be going down this road. We went after Iraq instead. A state that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

And then we failed to execute. FAILED TO EXECUTE. Stood by while Iraq was looted. Failed to have enough troops to keep the country safe. We let the bad guys run rampant through the streets of Iraq. We failed to close the borders, we failed to guard the ammo dumps, we failed to guard the research sites, we failed we failed we failed.

George Bush has led this country to fail. Time to go, George.

 

[surplus1]

George Bush has led this country to fail. Time to go, George.

You know, I can deal with a mistake or several mistakes. I can even deal with a failure or two, when you were trying to do something legitimate.

I can't deal with dishonesty and I can't deal with a fella who believes that he is more infallible than the Pope claims to be.

You're right vc10, it is time to go.

PS. The CDC tells me that 36,000 Americans will die from influenza complications this year. That's 10 times the number we lost in the tragedy of 9-11. The CDC also tells me that more people die from the flu, right here at home, in 24 months than have died from AIDS in 24 years.

Then the CDC tells me that ALL of our flu vaccine is "outsourced" and therefore we can't provide vaccine to even the most threatened segments of our population.

This is on the watch of the same "Commander-in-chief" that tells us that outsourcing is "not a problem" and we should "trust" him to protect us from the possibility of a terrorist bio attack for four more years.

Some of you would like to give this guy the opportunity to control not only the Executive branch of Govt., but also the Legislative and the Judicial, at the same time. All three branches of our government contolled by one party with an ideology that at least 1/2 of the country does not share.

We should NEVER allow all 3 branches of government to be controlled by a single political party, no matter its name.

What's wrong with this picture? Everything! It is time for change and the time is NOW.

 

[LEROY]

Once again, the ABB crowd shows their true colors. What will you NOT blame on the President? Do you REALLY think he could control the growth rate of the influenza vaccine material? Could he have controlled the intel reports that came to him (and the rest of the modern world's intelligence sources, BTW) about Iraq's WTDs? I'm sure this is all a ploy to help those Republican evildoers pervade their tainted beliefs on the rest of us, instead of a genuine interest in the well-being of our country.
How 'bout this spin; the recession began as a result of CLINTON domestic policy...the corporate scandals emerged after 8 years of CLINTON domestic politics...the horrific events of 9/11 occured after the CLINTON administration had no less than 3 opportunites to take out Bin Ladin, but decided not to...CLINTON international politics led to the war on terror the way we know it. Invasion of Iraq was a result (in part) to the CLINTON administration allowing UN sanctions to be violated for better than 10 years.
So if you must, feel free to bash Bush because of todays major national problems, but try to understand where they came from before you blame him and him alone.

 

[habubuaza]

I'm just shocked. I mean Bush did pretty much da_mn near everything we asked of him following 9/11. I don't know why so many people have forgotten. Forgotten what it felt like. Scared? Yeah I was scared. I like many others didn't know what the rest of that day had in store for us. Planes hijacked and used as WMD's, people holding hands and jumping out of burning buildings. I personally couldn't get a hold of my brother who had an office in building #7. It would be 2 days until I could speak to him and know that he was alive. I remember watching TV with people standing next to the carnage with pictures of missing loved one's. Do you guys remember that? I remember here in Florida schools getting closed down immediately, malls being closed immediately, people leaving work, not knowing really what was happening except that we were under attack and in a state of NATIONAL EMERGENCY. I was scared and so were you. We were experiencing the worst attack in our Nations History. Remember seeing people running for their lives in downtown Manhattan? It is during times like these that a country needs exceptional leadership. W provided that. I remember when he went down the the WTC with the firefighters he not only rallied an entire nation, he was also comforting. And I remember how relieved I was when he put the world on notice that we were coming after those people and countries who were responsible. I remember within days seeing the photo's of special forces in Afghanistan on Camel Back on the hunt. Within weeks one terrorist country was overthrown. And others were put on direct notice, remember..Iraq, Iran and N. Korea? The axis of evil. Or did many of you forget that too? Who would have thought that three years would have passed without another terrorist attack? Within 90 days of 9/11 over 1 million jobs were lost. Who would have thought that 3 years later we would have an unemployment rate lower than that when Clinton was re-elected. Who would have thought that 75% of Al Qaeida would be dead or in jail. And oh yeah, they are still trying to KILL US. Did you know that we are stopping an average of one terrorist attack a DAY! Many of you wont believe that but I do. Did you know that Al Qaeida operatives were already arrested in the U.S. whose mission was to assasinate President Bush? That is why the terrorist threat level was raised in August 2002. I also remember the President saying that most of the successes of our war against these monsters will be mostly unknown. Obviously because of the sleeper cells that are still here. I would say that President Bush clearly has had the most difficult Presidency of at least the last half century. He stepped up though, and now many of you want to kick him in the teeth. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback. Could you have done what Bush did if you were President? Would you have had the backbone, conviciton, and will regardless of popular opinion national or worldwide to do what's right? He did. And I thank God everyday for it. I don't care what ALPA says because my family comes first. You can tell Capt. Woerth, because if we have another terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

 

[vc10]

OK, so in what way is the current mess in Iraq the fault of Clinton?

The last two days have seen a unit refuse to take orders in Iraq. It gets more like Vietnam every day.

We're p*ssing away American leadership and credibility. We're becoming a pariah state. We should never do things simply to be popular in the world, but just as you and I are stronger because we have friends to support us, so the US needs friends. We're stronger when we have friends.

Oh, and by the way, Poland will remove troops from Iraq in 2005. DON'T FORGET POLAND! 75% of Poland wants their troops out of Iraq. On second thought, DO FORGET POLAND...

The president isn't getting the job done. Time to go, George.

Once again, the ABB crowd shows their true colors. What will you NOT blame on the President? Do you REALLY think he could control the growth rate of the influenza vaccine material? Could he have controlled the intel reports that came to him (and the rest of the modern world's intelligence sources, BTW) about Iraq's WTDs? I'm sure this is all a ploy to help those Republican evildoers pervade their tainted beliefs on the rest of us, instead of a genuine interest in the well-being of our country.
How 'bout this spin; the recession began as a result of CLINTON domestic policy...the corporate scandals emerged after 8 years of CLINTON domestic politics...the horrific events of 9/11 occured after the CLINTON administration had no less than 3 opportunites to take out Bin Ladin, but decided not to...CLINTON international politics led to the war on terror the way we know it. Invasion of Iraq was a result (in part) to the CLINTON administration allowing UN sanctions to be violated for better than 10 years.
So if you must, feel free to bash Bush because of todays major national problems, but try to understand where they came from before you blame him and him alone.

 

[vc10]

Bush: Criminally Negligent

CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT.


Planning for after the war in Iraq non-existent

By WARREN P. STROBEL and JOHN WALCOTT

Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - In March 2003, days before the start of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, American war planners and intelligence officials met at Shaw Air Force Base in South Carolina to review the Bush administration's plans to oust Saddam Hussein and implant democracy in Iraq.

Near the end of his presentation, an Army lieutenant colonel who was giving a briefing showed a slide describing the Pentagon's plans for rebuilding Iraq after the war, known in the planners' parlance as Phase 4-C. He was uncomfortable with his material - and for good reason.

The slide said: "To Be Provided."

A Knight Ridder review of the administration's Iraq policy and decisions has found that it invaded Iraq without a comprehensive plan in place to secure and rebuild the country. The administration also failed to provide some 100,000 additional U.S. troops that American military commanders originally wanted to help restore order and reconstruct a country shattered by war, a brutal dictatorship and economic sanctions.

 

[46Driver]

VC,
Just curious. You are very outspoken against Bush and his foreign policy. Tell me: 1) How Kerry's foreign policy will differ and 2) What do you think Bush's reasons and goals were by invading Iraq?

 

[68pilot]

So is everyone here stupid?
It took 30 seconds to find out about TAPA, the Transmeridian Airline Pilots Union.
Transmeridian is a Union Airline.
End of Discussion.

 

[kevdog]

Hey, do any of you guys remember what W said right after the 9/11 attacks? Let me remind you...he talked about the war on terror being a religious crusade, Osama Bin Laden being Wanted...Dead or Alive, The U.N. not doing their job with their inspectors and finding WMD in Iraq, ridding the world of EVIL DOERS, etc. Sorta sounds like a SNL skit. All he can talk about now is smack about John Kerry being a Flip Flopper. I wonder why he is so defensive.

W Back to Crawford, if only he could find it on a map himself.