For SWA Poolies

[waveflyer]

That thing just censored c'h'o'r'e's !
Funny.

 

[Moon-dog]

Well, I have no beef with Wal-Mart. Shop there every day, however, if you do, then by all means do not.

 

[Whataburger]

When Lorenzo was doing his thing, if your family bought a ticket on CAL, what would you think? There are plenty of reasons, union and otherwise to morally reject walmart. My favorite way to vote in america is with my wallet. I take as much pride in being a conscientious spender as I do in being an informed and conscientious voter.

You may disagree with me on some issues, but hope you agree that who we patronize is an important vote in any capitalist system. I encourage you to look into wal-mart's practices and see if you want to support that. There are lots of big stores where you can combine your shopping c************************* and will only have to spend a few bucks more. It's worth it to me. You get to decide for yourself, that's true. But my family knows that when they buy airline tickets- it's not just about price- it's about employee QOL and corporate responsibility. No less than a dozen of them have used up their points on united and fly southwest domestically and a selection of international carriers abroad.

We ought to reward corporate responsibility and punish corporate corruption.

Nice post. I understand what your saying. However, some of us live in areas where there aren't many options. In addition, as a pilot with a family, I have to be both conscientious of how I spend my money and how I spend my time.

My wife spends five-forths of my paycheck anyways. There's not much left over for the Waltons.

 

[waveflyer]

As a former poolie... My bad, on the thread drift- good luck to you all. Right or wrong, I'm an optimist. But by all means, as time marches on, keep exploring other opportunities that you might like- and pursue them aggressively-(Delta) you just never know what the future will hold.

You don't have a job until you have a job. And you don't have a choice until you have a choice.

Take care

 

[4 Fan Trashcan]

keep exploring other opportunities that you might like- and pursue them aggressively-(Delta) you just never know what the future will hold.

Are any of you at the bottom of the SWA seniority list considering leaving for one of the other carrier's that have announced hiring (Delta, Air Tran and Jet Blue)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BigEasy]

Are any of you at the bottom of the SWA seniority list considering leaving for one of the other carrier's that have announced hiring (Delta, Air Tran and Jet Blue)?

Thanks in advance.

Not a chance!!

We are not perfect here at SWA, no one is, but we are absolutely different from everyone else. I have worked for several carriers and seen the good, bad, and ugly.

Long upgrades now due to economy and age 65 still has not put a damper on how I feel about working in this organization. It is true, being here is different from where you are coming from. It is not a party every night but it is an environment that one can appreciate. Keep in mind I am no kool aid drinker, not even close, but I have seen what is out there and am proud to be part of this airline.

Good luck to all the poolies and hopefully we see you on property soon. I will glad to buy you an adult beverage on an overnight!

Bigeasy

 

[redflyer65]

I don't think so. The only reason I could see that if someone "had" to fly a widebody like Delta has. I would think most people would have already made that decision by now.

We did have some in the last classes of '08 choose to come from Delta, but to each their own.

 

[Bigoober]

Waveflyer, don't worry. You were dead on with your post even if I do visit Wal-Mart on occasion. A true capital market would vote with its wallet and it would flush out the corrupt, immoral, and weak. We wouldn't need all the regulations and laws for any number of causes. Unfortunately, I see how time does not allow for a truly educated vote when it comes to spending money, or in some cases, some people are just dumb.

Trashcan, how many people do you think are going to bite on your question? I am betting it is in the low single digits, if not zero, based on what I have heard from my friends at SWA. Interesting question though. We'll keep swimming. I thought I was getting into a pool, not an ocean when I was told to tread. Good thing I like the water.

 

[StopNTSing]

Are any of you at the bottom of the SWA seniority list considering leaving for one of the other carrier's that have announced hiring (Delta, Air Tran and Jet Blue)?

Thanks in advance.

You could certainly make a case for Delta. I'd be surprised if anyone actually left SWA for Air Tran or JetBlue, though.

 

[4 Fan Trashcan]

Trashcan, how many people do you think are going to bite on your question? I am betting it is in the low single digits, if not zero, based on what I have heard from my friends at SWA. Interesting question though. We'll keep swimming. I thought I was getting into a pool, not an ocean when I was told to tread. Good thing I like the water.

Just curious. It's not a stretch to imagine that there are a couple ATL, MSP, DTW or even NYC commuters who've been stuck on reserve in OAK or LAS for the last 2 years.

 

[PSL]

Yes there are ... just flew with a FO who was making the XC commute to sit reserve in OAK.

This is a new reality for us. We have not experienced seniority list stagnation like this; ever.

9/11/2001 put the brakes on for a little over 18 months (if memory serves).

Age 65, the economy, rising incremental costs (labor and fuel) and a decrease in risk tolerance have all lead up to our new reality.

I remember reading the Age 65 Pro/Con paper that came out from SWAPA when they were in the final press to change the legislation to conform with ICAO standards. The positon paper asserted that upgrades would be delayed in the 1.5 to 2.5 year range. One of the justifications was that SWA would continue to take on airframes (SWA had until this recent reality taken most of their options) and expand. The author of the paper, some time later, stated that he was rushed and wished he had more time to put out a balanced pro/con piece. I don't believe the guy to be evil or motivated to misrepresent the facts (hell I yanked gear for him for many years), but his timing and accuracy could not have been more off the mark.

It wasn't but three weeks later we announced an aggregate 8% reduction in flying, cancellation of future new hire classes and rescheduling of aircraft deliveries.

Now, for the first time in our history we have 10 year FOs, with the upgrade window growing longer by the month. We have downgraded captains and cut our lance captain program.

Many captains who were hired before 1999 have a difficult time understanding our new reality. I know this because when these 10 year FOs sit down with me I hear the stories of clueless captains.

When I started, Chief Pilots and Check Airman made it those positions around the 6 - 8 year point. This, for me, underscores just how different our reality is now from the past.

SL

 

[spciii]

Trashcan,
You trying to stir up a poopstorm here? :bomb: This thread was dying till you came along!

Though I don't think too many people (if any) will leave SWA once on property, I wonder how many will leave the pool, especially those living in NWelta cities.
spciii

 

[waveflyer]

I wouldn't leave Swa. That doesn't mean I wouldn't leave my regional for another job, depending on who it was.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Yes there are ... just flew with a FO who was making the XC commute to sit reserve in OAK.

This is a new reality for us. We have not experienced seniority list stagnation like this; ever.

9/11/2001 put the brakes on for a little over 18 months (if memory serves).

Age 65, the economy, rising incremental costs (labor and fuel) and a decrease in risk tolerance have all lead up to our new reality.

I remember reading the Age 65 Pro/Con paper that came out from SWAPA when they were in the final press to change the legislation to conform with ICAO standards. The positon paper asserted that upgrades would be delayed in the 1.5 to 2.5 year range. One of the justifications was that SWA would continue to take on airframes (SWA had until this recent reality taken most of their options) and expand. The author of the paper, some time later, stated that he was rushed and wished he had more time to put out a balanced pro/con piece. I don't believe the guy to be evil or motivated to misrepresent the facts (hell I yanked gear for him for many years), but his timing and accuracy could not have been more off the mark.

It wasn't but three weeks later we announced an aggregate 8% reduction in flying, cancellation of future new hire classes and rescheduling of aircraft deliveries.

Now, for the first time in our history we have 10 year FOs, with the upgrade window growing longer by the month. We have downgraded captains and cut our lance captain program.

Many captains who were hired before 1999 have a difficult time understanding our new reality. I know this because when these 10 year FOs sit down with me I hear the stories of clueless captains.

When I started, Chief Pilots and Check Airman made it those positions around the 6 - 8 year point. This, for me, underscores just how different our reality is now from the past.

SL

Well done!:beer:
The first dose of reality from a sw guy on this forum in a long while!

 

[GuppyWN]

A SWA poolie is only a poolie. If Mother Delta calls you'd be a fool not to hot foot it over there. You'll have a great job while you wait to see if "that other joint" calls for a class date.

Gup

 

[Mickey D]

Are any of you at the bottom of the SWA seniority list considering leaving for one of the other carrier's that have announced hiring (Delta, Air Tran and Jet Blue)?

Thanks in advance.

I doubt that there are. While there may be some that entertain the thought, the reality is that our most junior class is coming up on year 3 pay in September, which is pretty darn good coin. That alone would make it really difficult to rationalize a move to the bottom of another paylist at year one pay.

That being said, we have a lot of east coasters commuting to OAK, LAS and PHX, and it really does start to get to you. I would think that if anyone were seriously considering going to another airline, it would be most likely be to an airline with a base closer to home for them-- which would be a mistake because that plan could easily backfire if for some reason they didn't get their choice of base at the other carrier and the music stopped leaving them stuck there, as well.

I think most of us see a small light just beginning to form at the end of the tunnel with the possibility for some growth and/or base shifting with what seems as a possibility that Denver will open up. For those of you in the pool--keep your chin up and thanks for waiting. As one of the folks making the above mentioned commute, I for one can say that although it sucks at times, it has really been well worth it. Lots of great guys here who are really looking forward to buying your beer on overnights!

 

[Sumo14]

Nice post PSL... I'll keep swimming.

 

[Whataburger]

Lots of great guys here who are really looking forward to buying your beer on overnights!

...even if they cost $5 a piece. Now you just get one instead of five.

This whole gig will be worth the wait. Keep the faith.

 

[waveflyer]

...even if they cost $5 a piece. Now you just get one instead of five.

This whole gig will be worth the wait. Keep the faith.

No, no, no. ;-)
if I'm around, you'll still get 5(!) and probably a shot or two!
;-)

 

[T B O N E]

Another interesting data point is there are at least 3-4 current Delta guys swimming in the SWA pool.

 

[GuppyWN]

It's good to have options.

Gup

 

[Sumo14]

Another interesting data point is there are at least 3-4 current Delta guys swimming in the SWA pool.

And a few CAL guys.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I take it the interview didn't go well?

actually it went great, been here at good ole SWA 3 and a half years and counting. Best job ever had, I just wont change the channel when you are in the workout room watching FOX News.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Are any of you at the bottom of the SWA seniority list considering leaving for one of the other carrier's that have announced hiring (Delta, Air Tran and Jet Blue)?

Thanks in advance.

Personally I think thats crazy, almost career suicide if not done carefully. Even the most junior FO at SWA is making way more than the bottom of Jetblue, DAL, and Airtran with 16 days off. Being at the bottom of any list is a crappy place to be, but to bounce from bottom to bottom is even worse unless the carrier you are working for is on the way out, or Furloughs are about to happen. Everyones situation is different, but to leave the bottom of SWA for any of the other carriers right now would be a HUGE gamble.

When any of us get hired at any of these carriers nothing is guaranteed. Bouncing around the bottom is dangerous, I wouldn't do it. The only way to move up is by staying put, and if staying put at SWA is not making someone happy, I doubt they will be happy at the bottom of any carrier. Then again, nothing is guaranteed.......

 

[Skyboy722]

Personally I think thats crazy, almost career suicide if not done carefully. Even the most junior FO at SWA is making way more than the bottom of Jetblue, DAL, and Airtran with 16 days off. Being at the bottom of any list is a crappy place to be, but to bounce from bottom to bottom is even worse unless the carrier you are working for is on the way out, or Furloughs are about to happen. Everyones situation is different, but to leave the bottom of SWA for any of the other carriers right now would be a HUGE gamble.

When any of us get hired at any of these carriers nothing is guaranteed. Bouncing around the bottom is dangerous, I wouldn't do it. The only way to move up is by staying put, and if staying put at SWA is not making someone happy, I doubt they will be happy at the bottom of any carrier. Then again, nothing is guaranteed.......

I'm not so sure...

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not leaving. BUT... I really wouldn't be that surprised if a few people left. I'm not commenting on whether or not it's a smart move (who knows?) but I wouldn't be shocked to see some guys who are looking at 20 year upgrades decide that maybe they don't want to retire in the right seat, which is a very real possibility for alot of guys now. Upgrade time is a big player now. I think when SWA was recently upgrading in 5 years it was just about unbeatable in terms of career earnings expectations. But now?????

Of course, it still is a great company, great treatment, great QOL, etc., but there is now more to consider...

And actually, the only way to move up is to be at a company that is....moving up. Just a thought....

 

[puddlejumper101]

I'm not so sure...

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not leaving. BUT... I really wouldn't be that surprised if a few people left. I'm not commenting on whether or not it's a smart move (who knows?) but I wouldn't be shocked to see some guys who are looking at 20 year upgrades decide that maybe they don't want to retire in the right seat, which is a very real possibility for alot of guys now. Upgrade time is a big player now. I think when SWA was recently upgrading in 5 years it was just about unbeatable in terms of career earnings expectations. But now?????

Of course, it still is a great company, great treatment, great QOL, etc., but there is now more to consider...

And actually, the only way to move up is to be at a company that is....moving up. Just a thought....

that is a very tough call...in fact, it's downright ugly. Here is the thing, when basing a move on upgrade time, anyone might be setting up for dissapointment. Any carrier at this level requires a good 5 years at the very least to upgrade. (DAL more than that, JB and Airtran should be at around 5 years.) If someone already invested say 2 years at SWA and then has to wait say 5 years at JB, then is it worth it? That's like trying to predict the future, and I don't know many people that can do that, so we base this decision on luck. Just like SWA can ramp up and next thing you know upgrade time falls again. I know quite a few guys at other carriers that got burned bad by jumping ship from a healthy carrier. Tons of guys jumped to UAL and AA back ten years ago and who would have thunk it.

Is being PIC everything? I understand the $$$ is there but to leave a 120K right seat job at a healthy carrier for the bottom of another carrier because of PIC time...man that's risky. Once you make it to a major, it becomes a marathon not a race...unless the writing is on the wall for the company you work for. Another thing, try convincing DAL, JB, or Airtran HR Dept. to hire you after leaving SWA...they would be asking tons of questions about that, and if you mention upgrade time...they will not hire you. Just saying...that's as tough a call as you can have.

 

[4 Fan Trashcan]

No, no, no. ;-)
if I'm around, you'll still get 5(!) and probably a shot or two!
;-)

We'll take you up on it! Hopefully sooner rather than later. Appreciate all the replies to the original question.

 

[Skyboy722]

We'll take you up on it! Hopefully sooner rather than later. Appreciate all the replies to the original question.

What was the orginal question anyway? I forget...

 

[4 Fan Trashcan]

What was the orginal question anyway? I forget...

Easy to lose track of that around here isn't it?

 

[waveflyer]

What was the orginal question anyway? I forget...

I think it was 'why do the few liberals on the propert still get like 55% of the ass?'

was that it? And something about ratings...
;-)

just kidding! No more hijacks!

LGA, BOS, MSP, MKE, Expanding in DEN, rumors of San Juan, now CHS and GSP in the near future.
The days of the 5 year upgrade may be over, but there's still a LOT of opportunity for SWA and new pilots. Keep your heads up- people have been predicting the demise of Swa for years. So relax, be aggressive with mother D if it's a place you could be happy- like Gup said- choices are better than no choices- but I predict you'll be here soon.