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FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

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slowtation capt said:
Guess I mis-spoke and made it hard for some to understand.
It wasn't a passcode, it was his login information and it's easy, just as you signed up for this website. You have a login and a password.
Said person signed up for a message board, the message board was similar in nature to this and to the IBT message board.
It was not the same message board as the 1108 is now.
So, simple enough, he signed up, and gave his username and password to management.

Just as your DO is spending time reading these boards and putting pieces together of who is who. It's easy for him to do, just mention where you overnighted, who you ran into, that you need to go fly right now and can't post, etc.....

He puts all the pieces together and his creating a list of who is who, who is saying what, etc....

Don't believe me, don't care, heard the words from his mouth. Said it himself, said he had be tasked with finding out who is for and against, who is saying positive, who is saying negative on these boards. Everynight he said he monitors the boards.

So they knew who this poster was, brought him on a CGF1 arrival, presented his post, and fired him.
Took some time, but he did get his job back, as he made no more a specific threat to the company than Warlord just did.
Click to expand...

So now all he has to do is remember who he said that to and he now knows who you are also.

Genius
 
TWA 2 ASA FO said:
So now all he has to do is remember who he said that to and he now knows who you are also.

Genius
Click to expand...

I have always thought of myself as smart not genius, but thank you for the compliment.

slowtation capt said:
Don't believe me, don't care, heard the words from his mouth. Said it himself.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that he said it to me directly.

I could have been sitting in an fbo
Riding in the hotel/fbo van
Checking into a hotel
Eating dinner
Having drinks
Eating Breakfast
Talking directly to him.
 
slowtation capt said:
I have always thought of myself as smart not genius, but thank you for the compliment.



I didn't say that he said it to me directly.

I could have been sitting in an fbo
Riding in the hotel/fbo van
Checking into a hotel
Eating dinner
Having drinks
Eating Breakfast
Talking directly to him.
Click to expand...

You said you heard the words from his mouth.

I understand you are back peddling since you realize you shouldn't have said what you did, but please explain to me how if you heard the words from his mouth that he didn't say it to you directly.
 
TWA 2 ASA FO said:
You said you heard the words from his mouth.

I understand you are back peddling since you realize you shouldn't have said what you did, but please explain to me how if you heard the words from his mouth that he didn't say it to you directly.
Click to expand...

If you are unable to comprehend how somebody can hear words come from somebody's mouth but not be spoken directly to then there is nothing I can say that will make you understand
 
Have not been on FI in a few weeks and it does not look like I missed much. This debate was beaten to death months ago. Now it is just a pi$$ing contest. You Flops guys have done a lousy job trying to convince Flex pilots to join you. I need more than KR has triple 6s behind his ball sack and then someday a red pointy tail is going blow out of his a$$. Some of us may feel threatened by KRs ownership of us, but I think most of us feel that the bigger more immediate threat is IBT.
KR just stated that he is in no hurry to combine ops or pilot groups. So single carrier and integration would only come from IBT. Why does IBT want to merge so badly when clearly we don't. Is it because you think we can help you get a pay raise, something you can't seem to do on your own? Enough of us have had less than friendly encounters with FO pilots who have made it no secret they want to fly challengers, even if it means some of us being bumped out. Is that it? Or you want to "help" us battle evil management?
I and others have been asking these questions for months and can't seem to get a good answer. The repeated answer is Kenn wants it. How ironic that IBT is willing to help Kenn by organizing and integrating Flex pilots into IBT only to do battle with him afterwards.
If IBT forces single carrier and integration at this time you face a huge risk of having IBT voted out. So what we are telling you is to back off and let us experience Management by Trust for a few years. Flops gets to keep IBT and we get to keep the threat of a union and if you guys are right, then you will find a much more receptive group of pilots down the road. Force the issue now, then expect a $hitstorm.
 
The guys on this board from FO don't represent the opinion of all the pro-union pilots at FO any more than you represent the tiny group of anti-union pilots at FJ.
 
CL-350 said:
Have not been on FI in a few weeks and it does not look like I missed much. This debate was beaten to death months ago. Now it is just a pi$$ing contest. You Flops guys have done a lousy job trying to convince Flex pilots to join you. I need more than KR has triple 6s behind his ball sack and then someday a red pointy tail is going blow out of his a$$. Some of us may feel threatened by KRs ownership of us, but I think most of us feel that the bigger more immediate threat is IBT.
KR just stated that he is in no hurry to combine ops or pilot groups. So single carrier and integration would only come from IBT. Why does IBT want to merge so badly when clearly we don't. Is it because you think we can help you get a pay raise, something you can't seem to do on your own? Enough of us have had less than friendly encounters with FO pilots who have made it no secret they want to fly challengers, even if it means some of us being bumped out. Is that it? Or you want to "help" us battle evil management?
I and others have been asking these questions for months and can't seem to get a good answer. The repeated answer is Kenn wants it. How ironic that IBT is willing to help Kenn by organizing and integrating Flex pilots into IBT only to do battle with him afterwards.
If IBT forces single carrier and integration at this time you face a huge risk of having IBT voted out. So what we are telling you is to back off and let us experience Management by Trust for a few years. Flops gets to keep IBT and we get to keep the threat of a union and if you guys are right, then you will find a much more receptive group of pilots down the road. Force the issue now, then expect a $hitstorm.
Click to expand...

I Agree 350..And trust me I am sure most Flops pilots don't want to integrate with FJ. Why would we? There is a very high probability that we would lose the 1108. And if the majority of FO pilots didn't want the 1108 it wouldn't be here. I think that both sides should just stay separate. It won't take long for KR to show his true colors. And you won't notice it over night it will be a slow gradual deteration of your quality of life. little longer days, hotels a little cheaper, crew meals accidentally not ordered but we really need you to do 3 more legs, Quality crew meals, couple emails announcing a few minor changes that take away from the pilot group. KR is to smart to change everything in a day he knows there would be a backlash from that. He's gonna change it so slowly that you will hardly even notice and then in a few years you are gonna look back and say " what the ******************** happened????? TOO LATE!!! But FLOPS quality all though maybe not the best won't change at all cause at least we have a legal binding contract with the financial backing to fight KR and his team of lawyers. Something you don't have with that little piece of paper he forced you to sign.. So single carrier status is nothing I wanna see happen..
 
After trying to find relevant info on over 20 pages of this thread I just had to skip here and ask the questions - sorry if they were answered already:

1. How many total FO pilots?
2. How many of that number are on furlough?
3. What's the date of hire on your most senior pilot, your pilot at 50% of working list, pilot at 50% of overall list, pilots at top and bottom of furlough list.

Seems like easy enough questions. I guess a lot will be gleaned from FOs willingness or not to answer.

I'm a strong supporter of a seat at the table but I'll be honest I'm not sure if it's worth it at this juncture for a flex family. The IBT has not been impressive so far... not my decision anyway but I think if hubby decides no as it stands right now I wouldn't have much to argue with his call...

Face it - KR has all of you -every last one of you - exactly where he wants you after all... pretty impressive for a man you all like to refer to as the devil incarnate. Maybe he does have a shot of mopping the floor with Warren Buffet's toupee.

BTW - the new vision insurance sucks - i have to take my kids to Walmart now instead of the doc we've seen for 10+ years. I'm guessing I can blame the IBT for that since we got integrated into the DAC plans...
 
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With All Due Respect

flex*wife said:
BTW - the new vision insurance sucks - i have to take my kids to Walmart now instead of the doc we've seen for 10+ years. I'm guessing I can blame the IBT for that since we got integrated into the DAC plans...
Click to expand...

No, you can't blame the IBT for that.

The company determines which insurance provider they use.

The Flight Options CBA sets the minimum required coverage and the maximum percentage that a pilot is required to pay.

And really, do you think the IBT would endorse any plan requiring the use of Wal-Mart?
 
Amazing how KRs choices are blamed on the IBT I don't get these peoples thought process!! Company picks n chooses a ins provider and it's the IBTs fault.
 
The Architect said:
No, you can't blame the IBT for that.

The company determines which insurance provider they use.

The Flight Options CBA sets the minimum required coverage and the maximum percentage that a pilot is required to pay.

And really, do you think the IBT would endorse any plan requiring the use of Wal-Mart?
Click to expand...

shanes123 said:
Amazing how KRs choices are blamed on the IBT I don't get these peoples thought process!! Company picks n chooses a ins provider and it's the IBTs fault.
Click to expand...

Right - that's kind of the whole point - because of what IBT allowed as a MINIMUM requirement in this regard that decision is currently affecting my family even though we are not in the union since we were rolled into the FO plans for continuity, cost savings and management

Did you really think KR - or any other CEO - would do more than the minimum when already irritated? That was the responsibility of the union to fight for a better minimum.

So yes - in setting the minimum the IBT failed. How can you not get that and try to turn this into me being unreasonable?

At flex the employees did make it a point to have their voices known on insurance issues and to their credit management did their best to provide a higher quality of providers in the plans chosen. That went out the window when rolled into your new "minimums".

Oh BTW I misspoke - it's not as bad as Walmart. I just found out I cam take my family to Target too...

Here's the thing - I'm not anti union at all... look at my posting history. I am however anti crappy union. Right now my opinion is y'all have a crappy union.

So help me out here... How can you prove that FO's version of the IBT is a.) Anywhere near the competence level of the NJ IBT b.) Going to do better in the next round of negotiations and c.) Dampen the obvious acrimony between management and the pilot group that is at the heart of these problems if FJ signs on...

BTW - it would be nice to get the answers to the EASY questions from my first post. So now who is guilty of the smoke and mirror show?
 
flex*wife said:
Right - that's kind of the whole point - because of what IBT allowed as a MINIMUM requirement in this regard that decision is currently affecting my family even though we are not in the union since we were rolled into the FO plans for continuity, cost savings and management

Did you really think KR - or any other CEO - would do more than the minimum when already irritated? That was the responsibility of the union to fight for a better minimum.

So yes - in setting the minimum the IBT failed. How can you not get that and try to turn this into me being unreasonable?

At flex the employees did make it a point to have their voices known on insurance issues and to their credit management did their best to provide a higher quality of providers in the plans chosen. That went out the window when rolled into your new "minimums".

Oh BTW I misspoke - it's not as bad as Walmart. I just found out I cam take my family to Target too...

Here's the thing - I'm not anti union at all... look at my posting history. I am however anti crappy union. Right now my opinion is y'all have a crappy union.

So help me out here... How can you prove that FO's version of the IBT is a.) Anywhere near the competence level of the NJ IBT b.) Going to do better in the next round of negotiations and c.) Dampen the obvious acrimony between management and the pilot group that is at the heart of these problems if FJ signs on...

BTW - it would be nice to get the answers to the EASY questions from my first post. So now who is guilty of the smoke and mirror show?
Click to expand...


Its our first contract! Besides expecting the world what do you really expect. Kenn has cost my family far more than the measly 1.56% that my insurance policy has cost me. You and everybody else looks at the NJ contract as the norm (me too) but......do you remember what the contract was like before the got the "good" one? Remember when FO Capts were about 15000 more than a NJ Capt. Nothing is perfect Flexwife!
 
dime line said:
Its our first contract! Besides expecting the world what do you really expect. Kenn has cost my family far more than the measly 1.56% that my insurance policy has cost me. You and everybody else looks at the NJ contract as the norm (me too) but......do you remember what the contract was like before the got the "good" one? Remember when FO Capts were about 15000 more than a NJ Capt. Nothing is perfect Flexwife!
Click to expand...

I also remember back when FO had 800 +/- pilots.

I also remember when............
 
flex*wife said:
After trying to find relevant info on over 20 pages of this thread I just had to skip here and ask the questions - sorry if they were answered already:

1. How many total FO pilots? 471
2. How many of that number are on furlough? I believe 175
3. What's the date of hire on your most senior pilot, your pilot at 50% of working list, pilot at 50% of overall list-8/2000, pilots at top-11/2000 and bottom-4/2008 of furlough list.

BTW - the new vision insurance sucks - i have to take my kids to Walmart now instead of the doc we've seen for 10+ years. I'm guessing I can blame the IBT for that since we got integrated into the DAC plans...
Click to expand...

The Architect said:
The Flight Options CBA sets the minimum required coverage and the maximum percentage that a pilot is required to pay.
Click to expand...

You're right Architect, but I think a better explanation is needed to clarify what you mean by the minimum/maximum.


SECTION 24 - INSURANCE BENEFITS​
24.1 [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The Company shall maintain without change and continue to offer the pilots covered by this Agreement the same health, dental, vision, short term disability, long term disability, accidental death and dismemberment and life insurance benefits in effect on September 15, 2009. Effective January 1, 2011, and every January 1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]st [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]thereafter, the Company may change the insurance carriers but no change will result in lesser benefits (e.g. reductions in coverage or benefit levels) or higher employee out-of-pocket expenses, if applicable, (e.g., deductibles, co-payments, co-insurance, prescription charges) compared to those in effect on September 15, 2009, as set forth in the Summary Plan Description and the Schedule(s) of Benefits. [/FONT][/FONT]TA 10/29/09

24.2 Employee Contributions to Premiums
24.2(a) Medical Insurance
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Current employee contributions to the Medical Insurance premiums, which represent 23 percent of total Medical Plan Expenses, are set forth in the Medical and Dental Cost Appendix of the Agreement. Said amounts shall remain fixed until December 31, 2010. Effective January 1, 2011, and every January 1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]st [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]thereafter, the pilot contribution to Medical Insurance Premiums may be increased to ensure the Maintenance of Benefits as outlined in subsection 24.1. Any increase in Medical Plan Expenses compared to the previous year (January 1 to December 31) will result in an employee contribution rate of no more than a 23 percent of total Medical Plan Expenses.
[/FONT][/FONT]
 
TWA 2 ASA FO said:
I also remember back when FO had 800 +/- pilots.

I also remember when............
Click to expand...

It was actually a few #'s shy of 1000.

Are you trying to say TWA that it was the IBT's fault that we are less than half our pilots now then before somebody name S.M. Scheeringa and his little Indian sidekick was tasked by Raytheon with a contract to get Flight Options to a point that they were able to sell it off, because Ricci had the company in such bad financial shape that the only choice for Raytheon was to take it back over. And then after they sold it to HIG, the little indian sidekick Sanjay sued Raytheon for not making good on the contract they provided him that said he would receive a percentage of the sale, all the time they kept telling us we didn't need a contract, that nobody else at Flight Options had a contract, etc......
 
flex*wife said:
At flex the employees did make it a point to have their voices known on insurance issues and to their credit management did their best to provide a higher quality of providers in the plans chosen. That went out the window when rolled into your new "minimums".
Click to expand...

All I have been hearing is how Flex management is the ones running the show now, and all Flight Options reports to them.

How is it then that you guys did not have a voice in making this crucial change to a policy that directly affects your livelihood?

How is it then that your management, the management that I have heard how wonderful and great they are, did not listen to your voices?
 

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