FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[doh]

I got the girth thing covered...

 

[squawk]

Such a waste of bandwidth

 

[flex*wife]

After trying to find relevant info on over 20 pages of this thread I just had to skip here and ask the questions - sorry if they were answered already:

1. How many total FO pilots?
2. How many of that number are on furlough?
3. What's the date of hire on your most senior pilot, your pilot at 50% of working list, pilot at 50% of overall list, pilots at top and bottom of furlough list.

Seems like easy enough questions. I guess a lot will be gleaned from FOs willingness or not to answer.

I'm a strong supporter of a seat at the table but I'll be honest I'm not sure if it's worth it at this juncture for a flex family. The IBT has not been impressive so far... not my decision anyway but I think if hubby decides no as it stands right now I wouldn't have much to argue with his call...

Face it - KR has all of you -every last one of you - exactly where he wants you after all... pretty impressive for a man you all like to refer to as the devil incarnate. Maybe he does have a shot of mopping the floor with Warren Buffet's toupee.

BTW - the new vision insurance sucks - i have to take my kids to Walmart now instead of the doc we've seen for 10+ years. I'm guessing I can blame the IBT for that since we got integrated into the DAC plans...

 

[The Architect]

With All Due Respect

BTW - the new vision insurance sucks - i have to take my kids to Walmart now instead of the doc we've seen for 10+ years. I'm guessing I can blame the IBT for that since we got integrated into the DAC plans...

No, you can't blame the IBT for that.

The company determines which insurance provider they use.

The Flight Options CBA sets the minimum required coverage and the maximum percentage that a pilot is required to pay.

And really, do you think the IBT would endorse any plan requiring the use of Wal-Mart?

 

[shanes123]

Amazing how KRs choices are blamed on the IBT I don't get these peoples thought process!! Company picks n chooses a ins provider and it's the IBTs fault.

 

[flex*wife]

No, you can't blame the IBT for that.

The company determines which insurance provider they use.

The Flight Options CBA sets the minimum required coverage and the maximum percentage that a pilot is required to pay.

And really, do you think the IBT would endorse any plan requiring the use of Wal-Mart?

Amazing how KRs choices are blamed on the IBT I don't get these peoples thought process!! Company picks n chooses a ins provider and it's the IBTs fault.

Right - that's kind of the whole point - because of what IBT allowed as a MINIMUM requirement in this regard that decision is currently affecting my family even though we are not in the union since we were rolled into the FO plans for continuity, cost savings and management

Did you really think KR - or any other CEO - would do more than the minimum when already irritated? That was the responsibility of the union to fight for a better minimum.

So yes - in setting the minimum the IBT failed. How can you not get that and try to turn this into me being unreasonable?

At flex the employees did make it a point to have their voices known on insurance issues and to their credit management did their best to provide a higher quality of providers in the plans chosen. That went out the window when rolled into your new "minimums".

Oh BTW I misspoke - it's not as bad as Walmart. I just found out I cam take my family to Target too...

Here's the thing - I'm not anti union at all... look at my posting history. I am however anti crappy union. Right now my opinion is y'all have a crappy union.

So help me out here... How can you prove that FO's version of the IBT is a.) Anywhere near the competence level of the NJ IBT b.) Going to do better in the next round of negotiations and c.) Dampen the obvious acrimony between management and the pilot group that is at the heart of these problems if FJ signs on...

BTW - it would be nice to get the answers to the EASY questions from my first post. So now who is guilty of the smoke and mirror show?

 

[dime line]

Right - that's kind of the whole point - because of what IBT allowed as a MINIMUM requirement in this regard that decision is currently affecting my family even though we are not in the union since we were rolled into the FO plans for continuity, cost savings and management

Did you really think KR - or any other CEO - would do more than the minimum when already irritated? That was the responsibility of the union to fight for a better minimum.

So yes - in setting the minimum the IBT failed. How can you not get that and try to turn this into me being unreasonable?

At flex the employees did make it a point to have their voices known on insurance issues and to their credit management did their best to provide a higher quality of providers in the plans chosen. That went out the window when rolled into your new "minimums".

Oh BTW I misspoke - it's not as bad as Walmart. I just found out I cam take my family to Target too...

Here's the thing - I'm not anti union at all... look at my posting history. I am however anti crappy union. Right now my opinion is y'all have a crappy union.

So help me out here... How can you prove that FO's version of the IBT is a.) Anywhere near the competence level of the NJ IBT b.) Going to do better in the next round of negotiations and c.) Dampen the obvious acrimony between management and the pilot group that is at the heart of these problems if FJ signs on...

BTW - it would be nice to get the answers to the EASY questions from my first post. So now who is guilty of the smoke and mirror show?

Its our first contract! Besides expecting the world what do you really expect. Kenn has cost my family far more than the measly 1.56% that my insurance policy has cost me. You and everybody else looks at the NJ contract as the norm (me too) but......do you remember what the contract was like before the got the "good" one? Remember when FO Capts were about 15000 more than a NJ Capt. Nothing is perfect Flexwife!

 

[el raton]

Flexjet made me work 14 hours 2 days in a row!!

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Its our first contract! Besides expecting the world what do you really expect. Kenn has cost my family far more than the measly 1.56% that my insurance policy has cost me. You and everybody else looks at the NJ contract as the norm (me too) but......do you remember what the contract was like before the got the "good" one? Remember when FO Capts were about 15000 more than a NJ Capt. Nothing is perfect Flexwife!

I also remember back when FO had 800 +/- pilots.

I also remember when............

 

[doh]

Flexjet made me work 14 hours 2 days in a row!!

Somebody got in trouble if it was only two. That is lousy scheduling.

 

[slowtation capt]

After trying to find relevant info on over 20 pages of this thread I just had to skip here and ask the questions - sorry if they were answered already:

1. How many total FO pilots? 471
2. How many of that number are on furlough? I believe 175
3. What's the date of hire on your most senior pilot, your pilot at 50% of working list, pilot at 50% of overall list-8/2000, pilots at top-11/2000 and bottom-4/2008 of furlough list.

BTW - the new vision insurance sucks - i have to take my kids to Walmart now instead of the doc we've seen for 10+ years. I'm guessing I can blame the IBT for that since we got integrated into the DAC plans...

The Flight Options CBA sets the minimum required coverage and the maximum percentage that a pilot is required to pay.

You're right Architect, but I think a better explanation is needed to clarify what you mean by the minimum/maximum.

SECTION 24 - INSURANCE BENEFITS​

24.1 [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The Company shall maintain without change and continue to offer the pilots covered by this Agreement the same health, dental, vision, short term disability, long term disability, accidental death and dismemberment and life insurance benefits in effect on September 15, 2009. Effective January 1, 2011, and every January 1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]st [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]thereafter, the Company may change the insurance carriers but no change will result in lesser benefits (e.g. reductions in coverage or benefit levels) or higher employee out-of-pocket expenses, if applicable, (e.g., deductibles, co-payments, co-insurance, prescription charges) compared to those in effect on September 15, 2009, as set forth in the Summary Plan Description and the Schedule(s) of Benefits. [/FONT][/FONT]TA 10/29/09

24.2 Employee Contributions to Premiums
24.2(a) Medical Insurance
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Current employee contributions to the Medical Insurance premiums, which represent 23 percent of total Medical Plan Expenses, are set forth in the Medical and Dental Cost Appendix of the Agreement. Said amounts shall remain fixed until December 31, 2010. Effective January 1, 2011, and every January 1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]st [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]thereafter, the pilot contribution to Medical Insurance Premiums may be increased to ensure the Maintenance of Benefits as outlined in subsection 24.1. Any increase in Medical Plan Expenses compared to the previous year (January 1 to December 31) will result in an employee contribution rate of no more than a 23 percent of total Medical Plan Expenses.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[slowtation capt]

I also remember back when FO had 800 +/- pilots.

I also remember when............

It was actually a few #'s shy of 1000.

Are you trying to say TWA that it was the IBT's fault that we are less than half our pilots now then before somebody name S.M. Scheeringa and his little Indian sidekick was tasked by Raytheon with a contract to get Flight Options to a point that they were able to sell it off, because Ricci had the company in such bad financial shape that the only choice for Raytheon was to take it back over. And then after they sold it to HIG, the little indian sidekick Sanjay sued Raytheon for not making good on the contract they provided him that said he would receive a percentage of the sale, all the time they kept telling us we didn't need a contract, that nobody else at Flight Options had a contract, etc......

 

[dime line]

I also remember when............

We use to have 401K matching under Ricci

 

[slowtation capt]

We use to have 401K matching under Ricci

I remember when in a company meeting Ricci said that needed to come back ASAP. Oh wait that was only about 6 months ago.

 

[slowtation capt]

At flex the employees did make it a point to have their voices known on insurance issues and to their credit management did their best to provide a higher quality of providers in the plans chosen. That went out the window when rolled into your new "minimums".

All I have been hearing is how Flex management is the ones running the show now, and all Flight Options reports to them.

How is it then that you guys did not have a voice in making this crucial change to a policy that directly affects your livelihood?

How is it then that your management, the management that I have heard how wonderful and great they are, did not listen to your voices?