Flying to Hawaii

[GVFlyer]

GV, why are you even wasting your time on this bozo. He's never gonna buy a Gulfstream, a Legacy, or a piper twin for that matter. The pro-pilots and the seasoned owners know what is what and the use real data to make their choices. If this guy had a Gulfstream job that payed a buck-and-a-half like we make, he would be singing a different tune. Don't you remember the story about 'sour grapes'.

Ace

Roger that, Ace.

 

[FracCapt]

Out of curiosity Legacy, who do you fly for?

That's one question he's always avoided.....things that make you go HMMMMmmmm!

 

[LegacyDriver]

You are making fun of PDA-induced typos? Ha!

You also denegrate the 14 aurplanes sold since 2002. Would Gulfstream have faired better with its G-I post-9/11 ? ? ? I doubt it. Embraer has done very well to introduce a new airplane into a crowded market it did not exist in previously.

Did EMB not recently confirm orders for FIFTY Legacy jets? That is pretty good if you ask me.

Who I work for is not relevant to the discussion. I fly EMBs that is all you need to know.

 

[xrated]

I was just curious who is flying Legecies. I don't plan on sending "my boys" out to bust some knee caps. I was wondering if you flew one that I wasn't aware of.

I know of Flight Options, Swift, and those managed by Swift (KSMO, KMMU), Apollo Group in SDL and one or two that have gone to the Middle East. I believe those too were connected to Swift.

If you fly for Swift, or even FLOPS for that matter, a latent part of your job is selling the planes and your job depends on it.....at least in the long run. Of those fifty orders, how many are from Swift? I know they committed to at least 25. Of the 14 listed on this post, 8 were connected to Swift one way or the other. Not sure if they sold any or if they were leased out. I know the AG airplane was sold outright. Not sure on the others.

Flops is looking to replace the Challengers and Gulfstreams with the Legacy and word is the owners are kicking and screaming over it. Three of their birds have the pig engines. Talk about a No-performing airplane! As you can tell by the list provided by GV, of the four planes operated by FLOPS, only one has been sold outright. Not a spectacular showing.

As I've said in the past, the Legacy will find a small niche, but to compare it to a Gulfstream is an insult to those who own and fly them.

P.S. Typing on a PDA, eight out of fourteen run by S.A.G., sounding like a sales guy? I bet I can guess who you work for. If you won't tell us, would you tell us if you came from flying a CE-560?

 

[GVFlyer]

Did EMB not recently confirm orders for FIFTY Legacy jets? That is pretty good if you ask me.

It's hard to know what Embraer is doing, Mauricio Bothelo's press releases have little relationship to reality. Indigo had an order for 25 and options for 25 more to be used as 19 passenger, 1700 nm max range airliners between MDW and TEB, but they went out of business. Ernie Edwards at Swift, a former Gulfstream salesman until he was made redundant, has options for 25 if he can manage to sell them. Of course, Swift is the North American "Authorized Distributor for Legacy Aircraft." The Swift options are all that JetNet is showing.

GV









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[LegacyDriver]

I thought Swift actually confirmed orders for fifty. They must think they can sell them if they have not already done so.

Give the airplane some time. It will carve out a pretty good niche over the next couple of years.

(I did not come from a 560 - I haven't been in a Slowtation Mark in six years. I am also NOT in any way related to sales ofthe Legacy. I am a Captain for a privately owned Legacy that is managed when I am not using it to fly my boss and his girlfriends around. )

 

[501261]

(I did not come from a 560 - I haven't been in a Slowtation Mark in six years. I am also NOT in any way related to sales ofthe Legacy. I am a Captain for a privately owned Legacy that is managed when I am not using it to fly my boss and his girlfriends around. )

Oh, so your the one flying that Legacy out of SMO.

I'm curious what's the range of that thing coming out of SMO? I'm not trying to flame you here, I'm just wondering if in the real world you can nonstop SMO-TEB 8 Pax, no wind, (considering you'll be at 5000' for the last 50 miles or so).

 

[LegacyDriver]

The airplane performs far better than the book says it will.





Coast to coast (Anywhere, CA to TEB)with 14,000 lbs of gas you can easily land with 4000 lbs. and that includes dragging it in low. The airplane is pretty efficient. Full boat vs 3 pax doesn't affect burn very much so far as I have noticed. I did 5:30 after bagging 15500 lbs. and landed with 4400 lbs last week. (Only about 25 on the tail most of the way.). I thought that was pretty good.

 

[501261]

Coast to coast (Anywhere, CA to TEB)with 14,000 lbs of gas you can easily land with 4000 lbs. and that includes dragging it in low. The airplane is pretty efficient. Full boat vs 3 pax doesn't affect burn very much so far as I have noticed. I did 5:30 after bagging 15500 lbs. and landed with 4400 lbs last week. (Only about 25 on the tail most of the way.). I thought that was pretty good.

I'm not talking Anywhere, CA (i.e. LAX, SFO, etc). I'm talking SMO. Can you get off of SMO, with 15,500lbs fuel, 8 PAX, on a 25C day out of a 5000' runway?

Again, I'm not trying to flame here, but SMO-TEB is a very, very popular business jet route. It is also one that a lot of business jets need to stop for, because real life you need 5:30 fuel onboard, and coming out of a 5000' runway that's asking a lot.

 

[LegacyDriver]

You can go out of a shorter runway than that. The wheels can be off the ground in 3K feet. The concern is the surrounding terrain.

I will run the numbers for you and give you a no-guess answer later.

SMO has not been a problem to TEB yet...I do not forsee it being one. Let me try your numbers...

29000 airplane
15000 gas
1600 pax and bags

45600 at takeoff...