Flying to Hawaii

[GVFlyer]

GV, why are you even wasting your time on this bozo. He's never gonna buy a Gulfstream, a Legacy, or a piper twin for that matter. The pro-pilots and the seasoned owners know what is what and the use real data to make their choices. If this guy had a Gulfstream job that payed a buck-and-a-half like we make, he would be singing a different tune. Don't you remember the story about 'sour grapes'.

Ace

Roger that, Ace.

 

[FracCapt]

Out of curiosity Legacy, who do you fly for?

That's one question he's always avoided.....things that make you go HMMMMmmmm!

 

[LegacyDriver]

You are making fun of PDA-induced typos? Ha!

You also denegrate the 14 aurplanes sold since 2002. Would Gulfstream have faired better with its G-I post-9/11 ? ? ? I doubt it. Embraer has done very well to introduce a new airplane into a crowded market it did not exist in previously.

Did EMB not recently confirm orders for FIFTY Legacy jets? That is pretty good if you ask me.

Who I work for is not relevant to the discussion. I fly EMBs that is all you need to know.

 

[xrated]

I was just curious who is flying Legecies. I don't plan on sending "my boys" out to bust some knee caps. I was wondering if you flew one that I wasn't aware of.

I know of Flight Options, Swift, and those managed by Swift (KSMO, KMMU), Apollo Group in SDL and one or two that have gone to the Middle East. I believe those too were connected to Swift.

If you fly for Swift, or even FLOPS for that matter, a latent part of your job is selling the planes and your job depends on it.....at least in the long run. Of those fifty orders, how many are from Swift? I know they committed to at least 25. Of the 14 listed on this post, 8 were connected to Swift one way or the other. Not sure if they sold any or if they were leased out. I know the AG airplane was sold outright. Not sure on the others.

Flops is looking to replace the Challengers and Gulfstreams with the Legacy and word is the owners are kicking and screaming over it. Three of their birds have the pig engines. Talk about a No-performing airplane! As you can tell by the list provided by GV, of the four planes operated by FLOPS, only one has been sold outright. Not a spectacular showing.

As I've said in the past, the Legacy will find a small niche, but to compare it to a Gulfstream is an insult to those who own and fly them.

P.S. Typing on a PDA, eight out of fourteen run by S.A.G., sounding like a sales guy? I bet I can guess who you work for. If you won't tell us, would you tell us if you came from flying a CE-560?

 

[GVFlyer]

Did EMB not recently confirm orders for FIFTY Legacy jets? That is pretty good if you ask me.

It's hard to know what Embraer is doing, Mauricio Bothelo's press releases have little relationship to reality. Indigo had an order for 25 and options for 25 more to be used as 19 passenger, 1700 nm max range airliners between MDW and TEB, but they went out of business. Ernie Edwards at Swift, a former Gulfstream salesman until he was made redundant, has options for 25 if he can manage to sell them. Of course, Swift is the North American "Authorized Distributor for Legacy Aircraft." The Swift options are all that JetNet is showing.

GV









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[LegacyDriver]

I thought Swift actually confirmed orders for fifty. They must think they can sell them if they have not already done so.

Give the airplane some time. It will carve out a pretty good niche over the next couple of years.

(I did not come from a 560 - I haven't been in a Slowtation Mark in six years. I am also NOT in any way related to sales ofthe Legacy. I am a Captain for a privately owned Legacy that is managed when I am not using it to fly my boss and his girlfriends around. )

 

[501261]

(I did not come from a 560 - I haven't been in a Slowtation Mark in six years. I am also NOT in any way related to sales ofthe Legacy. I am a Captain for a privately owned Legacy that is managed when I am not using it to fly my boss and his girlfriends around. )

Oh, so your the one flying that Legacy out of SMO.

I'm curious what's the range of that thing coming out of SMO? I'm not trying to flame you here, I'm just wondering if in the real world you can nonstop SMO-TEB 8 Pax, no wind, (considering you'll be at 5000' for the last 50 miles or so).

 

[LegacyDriver]

The airplane performs far better than the book says it will.





Coast to coast (Anywhere, CA to TEB)with 14,000 lbs of gas you can easily land with 4000 lbs. and that includes dragging it in low. The airplane is pretty efficient. Full boat vs 3 pax doesn't affect burn very much so far as I have noticed. I did 5:30 after bagging 15500 lbs. and landed with 4400 lbs last week. (Only about 25 on the tail most of the way.). I thought that was pretty good.

 

[501261]

Coast to coast (Anywhere, CA to TEB)with 14,000 lbs of gas you can easily land with 4000 lbs. and that includes dragging it in low. The airplane is pretty efficient. Full boat vs 3 pax doesn't affect burn very much so far as I have noticed. I did 5:30 after bagging 15500 lbs. and landed with 4400 lbs last week. (Only about 25 on the tail most of the way.). I thought that was pretty good.

I'm not talking Anywhere, CA (i.e. LAX, SFO, etc). I'm talking SMO. Can you get off of SMO, with 15,500lbs fuel, 8 PAX, on a 25C day out of a 5000' runway?

Again, I'm not trying to flame here, but SMO-TEB is a very, very popular business jet route. It is also one that a lot of business jets need to stop for, because real life you need 5:30 fuel onboard, and coming out of a 5000' runway that's asking a lot.

 

[LegacyDriver]

You can go out of a shorter runway than that. The wheels can be off the ground in 3K feet. The concern is the surrounding terrain.

I will run the numbers for you and give you a no-guess answer later.

SMO has not been a problem to TEB yet...I do not forsee it being one. Let me try your numbers...

29000 airplane
15000 gas
1600 pax and bags

45600 at takeoff...

 

[TIS]

They always degenerate into flamefests cuz g-string pilots refuse to admit the deficiencies in their airplane.

People who've never flown Gulfstreams just don't get it! Ask any former Gulfstream pilot about the non-Gulfstream airplane they fly now and the first thing you'll hear in a wistful and longing voice is, "Well, it ain't a Gulfstream."

The reality is that airplanes break. Legacies are no exception. Legacies are new at the moment but that will change. So will the economy in Brasil. That oughtta add some interesting flavor to the DOCs.

I have yet to be grounded in a G in ten years of flyin' 'em. There are only a few things that will do it rock solid. Other than that, the MEL says you can break half the plane and still get it hom from the other side of the world. that's a nice warm fuzzy for me. I don't like having an impaired airplane to fly but fly, it I will if I need to.

TIS

 

[LegacyDriver]

I fly with a guy who is typed in and flown the II, III, and IV as well as the Slowtation X and he expresses no regrets re: leaving the Gulfstream world. He b*tches all the time wanting his X back though--he is some sort of speed freak.

As for the question about KSMO... Zero wind, 25 C, 4800 feet of runway...Legacy is limited to 45000 lbs at takeoff for E TO power.

So, use actual weights or leave behind a little gas, or go earlier in the day. Even leaving some gas behind (15K instead of 15500) you still make TEB easily. FL 410 capability is coming and that will eventually help the range when we get the pressurization software so the gas will not be an issue soon regardless.

 

[xrated]

Wow, a Legacy pilot calling it a "Slowtation X". C.Y. you are a crazy dude! Swift did not buy 50 Legacies, they realized after very lack luster interest, they stuck to their 25 firm orders and let the 25 options slide. They knew a stinker when they saw one! Also, will that thin skinned third world Jet pop if they pump it up any more. FL410 in a regional jet? We've seen what happens when you do that!

 

[LegacyDriver]

What is your source? Minw say Swift bought fifty firm.

Thin-skinned? I think you must be confusing yourself with that tiny G-String landing gear strut. Looks like a pencil. I thought you could land it on a carrier! Not! Legacy gear looks like a telephone pole by comparison.

Time will tell with the airplane. It is not the highest priority on EMB's list these days with the debut of the 170...

 

[TIS]

Okay, a few things here

I fly with a guy who is typed in and flown the II, III, and IV as well as the Slowtation X and he expresses no regrets re: leaving the Gulfstream world.

I never said anything about regret! I just implied that when one thinks of a GIII and the climb at max gross one remembers fondly what real performance is! RR Spey - Britain's equivalent of the J79. Can't beat that!

FL 410 capability is coming and that will eventually help the range when we get the pressurization software so the gas will not be an issue soon regardless.

Uhh, you need software to operate at FL410? That's a problem right there! That you can't go to FL450 is another. I guess you're down there with all the airliners banging around wishing you could go higher. Me? I just go there! No software required! Just a nice source of AC power (but DC'll do - in a pinch).

I think you must be confusing yourself with that tiny G-String landing gear strut. Looks like a pencil. I thought you could land it on a carrier! Not! Legacy gear looks like a telephone pole by comparison.

Umm, let's not forget who designed and originally built that landing gear you seem to think is so wimpy. That would be a GRUMMAN product. That company built more carrier-based aircraft than any other aircraft manufacturer in U.S. history. They didn't call the factory the Bethpage Iron Works for nothing you know! I think that's about enough said about the landing gear, don't you? They work just fine for me.

And one last item. We have the windows. Anyone whose seen 'em knows what I'm talking about. Everyone else has those PUNY girlie-man windows - yawh. There's no view of the world like the one you get from a Gulfstream.

Zero compromise! No one else can say that - PERIOD!

TIS