Flopsions Management....Corupt Third World Mentality

[Galaxy]

You are out of context.

The steel workers were mentioned only in respect to the era for which unions were first formed and the original mission before there were federal laws to protect workers. The original mission is different from what happens today.

Contract or fire sale? Personally, I'd like to see the fire sale so the rest of the industry can see and learn what happens when unions infultrate an industry.

Out of context? NOT! You keep running your lips about steel workers so I show you how an uneducated guy can pull in 100K yr and you blow it off. Pay the pilots what they are worth or get out. You say UNIONS were formed before federal protection laws. Don't you remember..everyone telling you that unions were started due to GREED and UNSAFE working conditions. There you go again with only HALF TRUTHS. So the UNIONS of today are protecting members from mgt's GREED.
I would love to see a FIRE SALE too-as jobs are easy to come by these days. It will show the industry that the mgt is unable to NEGOTIATE. Then you, that Alfred E Numan looking CEO with his pet Babo can all go looking for jobs with yet another failure on your cemetary view of a resume.
Good Luck packing your crap.

CONTRACT or FIRE SALE.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Incredible Incompetence & Corrupt Third World Management.

Originally Posted by GerryG
Just when I think they can't go any lower:

To each Flight Options pilot:

Most of you are aware of the Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996 (“PRIA”). We regularly receive questions about what information we are required by PRIA to provide to potential employers when a current or former Flight Options pilot is being considered for employment by another air carrier. These questions are especially appropriate now because the Department of Transportation through the FAA revised its guidance in November 2007 (see http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/).

PRIA was enacted to help ensure that air carriers and air operators under 14 CFR part 121 and 135, or a hiring air operator under 14 CFR part 125, adequately investigate a pilot’s background before allowing that pilot to conduct commercial air carrier flights. Under PRIA, a hiring employer cannot place a pilot into service until it obtains detailed records of the last five years of the pilot’s background and other safety-related records from a pilot applicant’s former employer(s). In response to these mandated inquiries from potential employers, we have been required to provide certain records regarding the pilot’s employment at Flight Options such as training and checking records, drug and alcohol test records, and disciplinary records that related to a pilot’s performance as a pilot.

THE DOT-FAA ADVISORY CIRCULAR (AC) 120-68D

The November 2007 AC provides a significantly expanded interpretation of a carrier’s duty to provide records according to PRIA requests from a prospective employer. In addition to the records we have provided in the past, we are now compelled to comply with section 2-3.d., that is, Records Concerning Disciplinary Actions: “...Your previous employer <Flight Options> must report all disciplinary actions, including those that do not involve your performance as a pilot, if they played any role in your termination or release from employment.” (The italicized words in the previous sentence are italicized in the Advisory Circular.)

WHAT DOES THIS DOT-FAA CLARIFICATION MEAN TO ME?

This change will not affect the vast majority of our flight crewmembers. For the small number of pilots whose employment was terminated, or who resigned in lieu of termination or to avoid involuntary termination, the new Advisory Circular requirements may result in the provision of additional information regarding the pilot’s disciplinary record that may not have been previously given. This will provide a prospective employer with a fuller picture of the pilot applicant’s employment history.

Best regards,

Bob

For those of you that are not familiar with the management players at Floptions let me enlighten you about "Bob", "Bob/B19".

The Butt Monkey that sent out this threatening insult of a message to our pilots in none other the Bob Tyler, VP of Operations. Bob has had a history anti union work and of these types of messages at Floptions dating back to 2005 when he came to the company.

A little history on Babbling Bob that you might find interesting. Bob is a Eastern SCAB. He helped Lorenzo to destroy Eastern but ensured his pay out when the airline failed. He sold his fellow pilots down the river for his own gain. He was successful at defeating union organization at Jet Aviation while there as VPO. Once a SCAB always SCAB. He has spread FUD, distortions and out right untruths his entire time at Floptions. All the while using his slick, used car salesmen personality and skills to sell himself a one of us, a good old boy from the south, looking out for our best interest. What a crock of bullsh!t.

This latest Babbling Bob message has no other mission then an attempt to instill fear in the weak sisters among us. We are finally getting managements attention and the cost of not being serious about concluding contract negotiations is starting to have a high price. As that price goes up so will managements desire to quicken the pace of negotiations.

Don't allow this POS SCAB to intimidate you or dissuade you from our goals. We are winning this fight, management knows it and this email is just another underhanded ploy from our,

Corrupt Third World Management.​

 

[fischman]

I stand by my statement.

The union mission has changed from protecting those who could not protect themselves because they were forced to work because there were NO OTHER OPTIONS available.

Unions today are there to "represent" workers by squeezing every last cent of cash from an employer, even if it might mean the company doesn't survive.

Today's employees have choices, they are not forced to work where they do as they did when unions were first formed.

How do you explain the success at NetJets and IBT1108? It is complete contradiction to your statement.

Seriously, and I am not insulting you. I think you are ignorant to the situation and it only make you look foolish and desperate.

We are working with a model that is mutually beneficial to the company and pilots. I wish you could see that.

 

[B19 Flyer]

For those of you that are not familiar with the management players at Floptions let me enlighten you about "Bob", "Bob/B19".

The Butt Monkey that sent out this threatening insult of a message to our pilots in none other the Bob Tyler, VP of Operations. Bob has had a history anti union work and of these types of messages at Floptions dating back to 2005 when he came to the company.

A little history on Babbling Bob that you might find interesting. Bob is a Eastern SCAB. He helped Lorenzo to destroy Eastern but ensured his pay out when the airline failed. He sold his fellow pilots down the river for his own gain. He was successful at defeating union organization at Jet Aviation while there as VPO. Once a SCAB always SCAB. He has spread FUD, distortions and out right untruths his entire time at Floptions. All the while using his slick, used car salesmen personality and skills to sell himself a one of us, a good old boy from the south, looking out for our best interest. What a crock of bullsh!t.

This latest Babbling Bob message has no other mission then an attempt to instill fear in the weak sisters among us. We are finally getting managements attention and the cost of not being serious about concluding contract negotiations is starting to have a high price. As that price goes up so will managements desire to quicken the pace of negotiations.

Don't allow this POS SCAB to intimidate you or dissuade you from our goals. We are winning this fight, management knows it and this email is just another underhanded ploy from our,

Corrupt Third World Management.​

First, I'm not Bob, and I believe unions are the absolute scum of the earth because of posts like the one here.

You are nothing but a fear mongerer.

The information he gave you was helping you out. Pilots are never up on the curve on legal matters, and if your union was on the ball, you would have heard about the rewrite and changes in PRIA long before now.

He gave you a heads up on something we've known about in 121 since before it was actually released. (Hmmm, we aren't union, I wonder if that is why?)

This isn't an attack on pilots, he's passing along information that has been public for well over 2 months.

Your UNION failed you by not giving you this information first. Depend on the union and your career will fail.

I've got no stake in the union thing at FLOPS with the exception of enjoying the debate. But when I see you use something that has been known industry-wide for months now, and use it to create fear with it, you are nothing but a fear mongering idiot that deserves everything that the union dumps on you.

Oh, and one other thing. You really need to educate yourself about Texas Air before throwing it around. Lorenzo was involved in a lot more than Eastern, and that debacle started long before Lorenzo stepped in. He saved as many careers with pilots and ground employees at other carriers than were lost at Eastern, and the mechanics at Eastern had ample opportunity to meet him in the middle. By stepping into Eastern, at least they had a chance. The union was going to take Eastern down with or without Lorenzo's intevention.

 

[B19 Flyer]

How do you explain the success at NetJets and IBT1108? It is complete contradiction to your statement.

Seriously, and I am not insulting you. I think you are ignorant to the situation and it only make you look foolish and desperate.

We are working with a model that is mutually beneficial to the company and pilots. I wish you could see that.

I explain the success the exact same way I would explain the success of the ALPA industry leading contracts with United and Delta in 1999 through 2001. They all failed even though initially they looked spectacular.

The only ignorant one is the one that can't see that the history of "industry leading contracts" is bleak.

Time is the only thing that will tell, and I hope the contract works out. The big difference between my career and yours, is that my carrier can adjust to the market without labor being involved. As a result, I have a better chance at not being furloughed than you do.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Out of context? NOT! You keep running your lips about steel workers so I show you how an uneducated guy can pull in 100K yr and you blow it off. Pay the pilots what they are worth or get out. You say UNIONS were formed before federal protection laws. Don't you remember..everyone telling you that unions were started due to GREED and UNSAFE working conditions. There you go again with only HALF TRUTHS. So the UNIONS of today are protecting members from mgt's GREED.
I would love to see a FIRE SALE too-as jobs are easy to come by these days. It will show the industry that the mgt is unable to NEGOTIATE. Then you, that Alfred E Numan looking CEO with his pet Babo can all go looking for jobs with yet another failure on your cemetary view of a resume.
Good Luck packing your crap.

CONTRACT or FIRE SALE.

No... it's not the same. Your union rhetoric is twisting the posts. I'm talking about 1935 and a group of workers without choices.

You are talking about uneducated guys making six figures today.

That proves my point. The union is no longer there to simply provide the basics of life in an unregulated world where there were no choices.

The mission has changed.

 

[CaveoFalco]

First, I'm not Bob, and I believe unions are the absolute scum of the earth because of posts like the one here.

You are nothing but a fear mongerer.

The information he gave you was helping you out. Pilots are never up on the curve on legal matters, and if your union was on the ball, you would have heard about the rewrite and changes in PRIA long before now.

He gave you a heads up on something we've known about in 121 since before it was actually released. (Hmmm, we aren't union, I wonder if that is why?)

This isn't an attack on pilots, he's passing along information that has been public for well over 2 months.

Your UNION failed you by not giving you this information first. Depend on the union and your career will fail.

I've got no stake in the union thing at FLOPS with the exception of enjoying the debate. But when I see you use something that has been known industry-wide for months now, and use it to create fear with it, you are nothing but a fear mongering idiot that deserves everything that the union dumps on you.

Oh, and one other thing. You really need to educate yourself about Texas Air before throwing it around. Lorenzo was involved in a lot more than Eastern, and that debacle started long before Lorenzo stepped in. He saved as many careers with pilots and ground employees at other carriers than were lost at Eastern, and the mechanics at Eastern had ample opportunity to meet him in the middle. By stepping into Eastern, at least they had a chance. The union was going to take Eastern down with or without Lorenzo's intevention.

A union is the membership and in this industry, the membership is pilots. In very direct way you just stated that unionized pilots are "the scum of the earth". You have no basis for such an outlandish, broad brushed, hate filled, grudge laden comments. You have absolutely no clue what IBT1108 offers - you are not there and therefore cannot speak in an educated capacity on anything that is IBT1108. I will tell you it is far more than just the contract. IBT1108 did not leverage anyone at anytime to get the 2007 CBA. It was agreed between NJA and IBT1108 of both parties free will. Either could have walked at anytime and waited for 2010.

Since you are so smart about Unions and what they do, why don't you speak about the role of Section 17 in the IBT1108/NJA 2007 CBA? Ever heard of LRMP, NOCODE, SOD, Joint Committees? How about Section 18 of the IBT1108/NJA 2007 CBA? Can you speak to that? I think not so all your antiquated, "I was wronged in the old days", uninformed writing is nothing more than vitriolic chicken scratch.

 

[dime line]

First, I'm not Bob, and I believe unions are the absolute scum of the earth because of posts like the one here.

You are nothing but a fear mongerer

.

And, What do you think you spread on this board?

The information he gave you was helping you out.

Pilots are never up on the curve on legal matters

Let me guess "the company will take care of us" I have some land to sell you. , and if your union was on the ball, you would have heard about the rewrite and changes in PRIA long before now.

He gave you a heads up on something we've known

about in 121 since before

Moron were not 121, none of us really care about 121. We fly the people that own the airline you work for!!

it was actually released. (Hmmm, we aren't union, I wonder if that is why?)

This isn't an attack on pilots, he's passing along information that has been public for well over 2 months.

Your UNION failed you by not giving you this information first. Depend on the union and your career will fail.

I've got no stake in the union thing at FLOPS with the exception of enjoying the debate. But when I see you use something that has been known industry-wide for months now, and use it to create fear with it, you are nothing but a fear mongering idiot that deserves everything that the union dumps on you.

Oh, and one other thing. You really need to educate yourself about Texas Air before throwing it around. Lorenzo was involved in a lot more than Eastern, and that debacle started long before Lorenzo stepped in. He saved as many careers with pilots and ground employees at other carriers than were lost at Eastern, and the mechanics at Eastern had ample opportunity to meet him in the middle. By stepping into Eastern, at least they had a chance. The union was going to take Eastern down with or without Lorenzo's intevention.

..........

 

[realityman]

B19 is painting LORENZO as the VICTIM?!!
Oh my, now THAT's some good humor!

Hey B19, since you're all about how unions have changed, is it possible that unions are STILL CHANGING and might now be actually helpful to both its members AND the company?

Our contract negotiations got quite contentious in '05. But why don't you list for me one single way that 1108 has been bad for NJA. I'm not talking about our union under the old 284 (although i doubt they were bad for NJA as they kept us working for ridiculously low wages). I'm talking about 1108. How have we hurt NJA? ANother poster here mentioned quite a few cooperative programs we have with the company that has been improving things for EVERYONE. So please tell me in what horrible ways our union is hurting NJA?

And you still haven't answered my question (well many questions really) as to why you feel pilots should be paid only an average wage?

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 is painting LORENZO as the VICTIM?!!
Oh my, now THAT's some good humor!

Hey B19, since you're all about how unions have changed, is it possible that unions are STILL CHANGING and might now be actually helpful to both its members AND the company?

Our contract negotiations got quite contentious in '05. But why don't you list for me one single way that 1108 has been bad for NJA. I'm not talking about our union under the old 284 (although i doubt they were bad for NJA as they kept us working for ridiculously low wages). I'm talking about 1108. How have we hurt NJA? ANother poster here mentioned quite a few cooperative programs we have with the company that has been improving things for EVERYONE. So please tell me in what horrible ways our union is hurting NJA?

And you still haven't answered my question (well many questions really) as to why you feel pilots should be paid only an average wage?

Not quoting that Lorenzo was a victim, never stated that. What I did say was that Lorenzo saved a hell of a lot of jobs too during a time frame in aviation history where airlines were vanishing due to deregulation. He gets tagged for trying to save a sinking ship that was doomed before he took over. He was successful with CAL, and others. Never gets noted in the history books though.

Oh, and I believe that market forces drive wages. I don't believe that pilots should make "average" wages, but before you post you need to look at where that statement came from.

It came from the discussion on the union mission and how it has changed.

In 1935 workers did not have a choice and did not make an average wage. They had their place in time.

Today, workers have choices, they aren't locked to only one company geographically as they were then.

Pilots are highly trained and deserve a great wage. The rest of the workers are too, not just the pilots. It's wrong when a union comes in and places all of their efforts and careers at risk, just because they've made the choice not to fly.

Unions today are all about getting every last cent of extra cash and how to work as little as possible with impossible work rules.

Unions are no longer about protecting those who can't protect themselves.


www.unionfacts.com