FLOPS Union Busting

[SeaSpray]

Why Teamsters? Laying aside the fact that Flt Ops pilots are going to be very much in control of their fate by joining a Local comprised only of frac pilots and ran by frac pilots, your question can be answered. Starting with the suggestion of forming an employee organization like that at SWA. That is only possible because the pilots are treated with respect by SWA management, who pays them like the professionals they are. Although equally deserving, the Flt Ops pilots don't seem to have that relationship at their company. When you're being listened to it isn't necessary to raise your voice and wave your arms. It looks like the Flt Ops pilots have to do both and that requires money--dues. When you compare Teamsters to a union like ALPA, the frac pilots get a better deal. A much smaller portion of the collected dues is sent to national than at other unions. 1108 was satisfied with the return on their dues--at the Local level and with help/advice received from Teamsters. I witnessed some of that help, myself, at Omaha where the NJ pilots kicked off their picketing campaign.

It is obvious that the anti-union side has a weak argument against frac pilots joining 1108. You don't argue the case on its own merits, like 1108's excellent track record, and you make comparisons that don't apply, like SWA. You turn a deaf ear to all the NJ pilots who have told you that they have enjoyed a great return on their union investment. Would you have us believe that 2000 plus pilots made a bad decision to form their own Local and that the contract they won wasn't worth fighting for? That is the group that Options pilots will be joining. Debate the issue, if you must, but at least keep it fair.

Of course I'm arguing the case on it's merits. My post was about demeaning yourself through association. One can always take the high road by not associating yourself with a demonstrated and proven criminal activity like the Teamsters. I notice that you wisely didn't attempt to challenge the irrefutable facts in my post which are a matter of public record.

For some it would be a character and ethical issue. I would think it would be really tough for your husband, a former military officer, to sacrifice his integrity for personal gain. What I hear you saying is that it doesn't matter what they are, as long as we get ours, it's O.K.

If you really want to speak the truth, you would confess that NJA pilots really wanted to form their own union in October 2004, but that the Teamsters had you so tied up contractually, that all you could do is form a new local. If you are really an ethical person and didn't know this, check the facts.

SS

 

[yosemite]

Of course I'm arguing the case on it's merits.

No, not really... what you are arguing is 50 year old story. The IBT of today is an organization way seperated from it's past.

For some it would be a character and ethical issue. I would think it would be really tough for your husband, a former military officer, to sacrifice his integrity for personal gain.

Hmm... so you are saying that because he or you are ex-military, that somehow you have a better personal integrity than a civilian only pilot?

If you really want to speak the truth, you would confess that NJA pilots really wanted to form their own union in October 2004, but that the Teamsters had you so tied up contractually, that all you could do is form a new local. If you are really an ethical person and didn't know this, check the facts.

That one is really funny. I was there; I participated in the discussions. I have the documents and e-mails saved as a historical reference. It ONLY takes 35% of a union membership to de-certify union representation. We could have done that at any time, and it was made more than clear to the IBT National Leadership that we would de-certify if our request to withdraw from Local 284 was not honored. There were no "contracts" in any form which kept us financially or otherwise obligated to the Teamsters. However, the Strong Union leadership asked the members to give them the chance to get the new local going and we did. We NEVER wanted to drop Teamster affiliation, EVER. The value of 1.4 million members supporting us, both financially and with their physical presence, in our fight was too strong of an advantage to disregard.

Would we have pulled out if the Teamsters National not come through? You betcha... Why didn't we? Because the Teamsters National recognized the value of a true class and craft local for Fractional Aviation and supported it fully once the true facts became known.

Those, SeaSpray, ARE the facts.

 

[netjetwife]

This one's really a stretch---demeaning yourself through association? Local 1108 is responsible for no one's actions but their own. Fairness demands we give credit where credit is due, and assign blame only where it has been earned.

Talk about grasping at straws---sacrifice his integrity for personal gain. By volunteering for 1108?! I've watched my husband perform his duties for 1108 with the same loyalty, dedication and discretion that he exhibited in his AF career. The NJ pilot group has watched the leadership of 1108 sacrifice personal gain for the good of the union. My husband is one of those making less than he could if he weren't volunteering right now. Suffice it to say, his integrity is as high as ever, even if his paycheck isn't.

The facts you speak of may be a matter of public record, but they don't interest me. When I think of the union, I think of the NJ pilots--of 1108. I think of the other frac pilots that may soon be joining 1108. I look at the way 1108 has changed the lives of the NJ pilots and their families. I consider the potential that 1108 can do the same thing for other frac pilots and their families. That's the "record" that matters to me.

If you have heard anything else, SS, it didn't come from my posts. I suggest that it is your own voice trying to drown out my message of confidence in 1108 and hope for the other frac families.

 

[SeaSpray]

No, not really... what you are arguing is 50 year old story. The IBT of today is an organization way seperated from it's past.

Actually, the Teamster's criminal history goes back more than 50 years, but the "Chicago Tribune" article about present Teamster's General President James Hoffa is current.

Ron Carey, who preceded Hoffa as president was indicted 7 Feb 2001.

Here's a brief history of the last 20 years:

1985 13 October - Teamster's President Roy Williams agrees to cooperate with the federal investigation of the relationship between organized crime and the union in exchange for a 45-day delay of his date for reporting to prison. Two weeks later Williams gives spectacular testimony confirming that the mafia controlled the Teamster leadership.


1986 Mid-May - Teamster's President Jackie Presser indicted on charges ranging from racketeering to embezzling $700,000 in a ghost employee scam. Released on $50,000 bond and continues as general president.


1986 November - Anthony 'Fat Tony' Salerno, convicted boss of the Genovese crime family, and his associates Milton Rockman, John 'Peanuts' Tronolone and Vincent Cararo (don't you just love the names?) were charged with arranging the election of Jackie Presser to the office of general president of the Teamsters Union, and with influencing Presser's decisions about union business and about management of pension and welfare funds.


1986 November - The Department of Justice indicated that it would file a civil suit against the Teamsters under the Racheteer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act to remove the General Executive Board of the IBT.


1988 May 4 - Jackie Presser takes leave of absence and Weldon Mathis, in accordance with the union's constitution, becomes acting general president. Because of poor health, Presser never comes to trial on the charges of labor racketeering, and he dies in July 1988 of a heart attack during surgery.


1989 March 13 - U.S. Department of Justice and the Teamsters Union reach agreement to settle RICO suit. The Wall Street Journal on March 14, 1989 reported the agreement, "influenced by the concerns and platform...of the Teamsters for a Democratic Union" provided for the direct election of all convention delegates and the union's international officers in 1991.


1991 - Ron Carey elected by Teamsters rank and file as general president.


1996 - Ron Carey re-elected general president.

1997 November - Election overturned. Ron Carey barred from running for re-election for allegations of campaign funding improprieties.

1999 - James Hoffa becomes general president.

Hmm... so you are saying that because he or you are ex-military, that somehow you have a better personal integrity than a civilian only pilot?

Can't comment on this, the only commercial civilian flying I've done was at COS when I was a college student. But ask NetJetsWife's husband about this one and he will tell you that he was rated on his integrity on his ER and that the Air Force doesn't tolerate integrity flaws in leaders who might be called on to order men and women to their death. In 1999 General Hugh Shelton, then Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, relieved General Wesley Clark as SHAPE Commander over issues of "integrity and character", so nobody gets a bye.

That one is really funny. I was there; I participated in the discussions. I have the documents and e-mails saved as a historical reference. It ONLY takes 35% of a union membership to de-certify union representation...There were no "contracts" in any form which kept us financially or otherwise obligated to the Teamsters...

My source says that it would have been financially prohibitive to sever your ties with the Teamsters in 2004.

In any event, my original post concerned not why you are in bed with the Teamsters, but why FLOPS would choose them when they have the opportunity to start their own organization or align themselves with a group that doesn't have such a colorful history.

Uh-oh, gotta go. There's a big guy with a badly broken nose and a baseball bat at my quarters door yelling that he wants to talk to me about my big, fat mouth!

SS

 

[netjetwife]

I should think it's obvious. Options pilots are more interested in what happened in the fractional industry in the past year than in the history of a huge organization that includes many labor groups. Put it this way---concerned citizens don't refuse to become involved in community govt because of scandals at the national level. Open-minded people judge others on their own merits, and certainly don't hold over a million workers responsible for the actions of a few. I think frac pilots are more interested in the help 1108 can give them than they are in acting on biased opinions they don't share with the anti-union pilots among them. They are basing their votes on 1108's record of improving the lives of the NJ pilots and their families, which is the right thing to do. By voting for 1108, they are choosing to stand with other pilots who are changing the industry and demanding professional compensation and treatment for all frac pilots.

 

[realityman]

SS, please take the time to check your facts, and above all else, LISTEN to what other people actually involved with this are saying. The answers to your questions are already here!
1)Starting an in-house union at NJA was looked at. It turned out that it would be prohibitively expensive to do so. Even with 2000 pilots chipping in dues. So how are the FLOPS pilots supposed to come up with that dough? Truly good and effective lawyers are very pricey. By remaining with Teamsters we had more than just our dues to draw upon, plus an already established network of lawyers to use, as well as other aviation locals within Teamsters (like the one at Airborne) to advise and guide us.

2)The pilots would have liked to get away from Local 284 back in 2004, just as you say, but the reasons we didn't aren't what you are putting forth. Quite simply, we had very ineffective leadership (Our previous MEC) who wouldn't stand up to a fat lady in a marathon. As soon as our new leadership was elected, we broke away and formed our own local, 1108, in an almost unheard of short period of time WITH the Teamsters National backing us to do so.

3)Corruption in the Teamsters? Yeah, so what? There's corruption everywhere. Government (national and local), in corporations, schools, aviation, and yes, even in the military. That doesn't mean we can't be a moral and ethical side of a union that may be tarnished in certain areas. Jimmy Hoffa dosn't seem to involve himself much with our little branch of the Teamsters, except when we needed to filter out the corruption of our old Local 284.

Ultimately, it's up to the FLOPS pilots to decide how they want to handle this. So far, our local 1108's record is pretty good at getting the desired results. Based on those facts, they are doing the right thing.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent post, Realityman!

There you have it. A realistic view of the situation. One that is exactly as I remember it, as well. The pros and cons were weighed by the NJ pilots who made the smart decision. The results speak for themselves, as did all those cards turned in by Flt Ops pilots who are ready to stand up to corporate greed and disrespect for their profession.

Best of luck to you all,
Netjetwife

 

[netjetwife]

Do you suppose the union-busting firm hired by Options has seen the coverage the pilots got in the Teamsters Airline Journal? News of the pilots' union drive is spreading faster and further than their efforts to squash it. What a waste of money! That just confirms that it isn't a matter of not being able to afford industry wages. The company has the money; they just choose to spend it on other things, obviously.

To the Flt Ops pilots sitting on the fence--you should find a copy of this journal and take a look on page 5. It's too easy to think of your situation as only a personal matter between the pilots and the company. In truth, your battle is part of a much bigger picture that has repercussions throughout the industry. Seeing it in black and white has a way of bringing that point home. It's not just your career future at stake, those of your fellow Ops pilots, and the financial well being of all your families that is being decided by your vote. Your decisions as pilots of the "second-largest fractional carrier" will have an impact on the rest of the industry. There's a lot of other pilots and their families whose future will be affected by your vote. Please don't let them down. Many in the aviation community are watching and waiting to see the outcome. I just received that proof in the mail. There is more support for your cause than perhaps you realize.

Just one of many cheering you on,
Netjetwife


ALL PROFESSIONAL PILOTS DESERVE A PROFESSIONAL CONTRACT

1108--CHANGING THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, ONE COMPANY AT A TIME

 

[choppengruven]

netjetwife

Thank you for taking the time to educate yourself on whats happening with our drive. The 1108 will be 800 pilots stronger come March 2nd.

 

[dime line]

I can't wait!!!! 10 more days