FLOPS Pilots vs FLOPS Pilots. Is this still going on?

[993_Pilot]

You are so full of $hit !!!

Well.. you don't spend much time in large corporate headquarters do you? Pretty much everything is done under the watchful eye of a camera in the sake of security, not safety. The idea of having a camera on the flight deck is to improve safety. So the answer is yes, I do welcome the cameras because there is a positive meaning behind it and I know that it improves safety and security in the building.

There are plenty of cameras for security in FBO's and on the ramps too. Pilot's don't object to this, but it isn't the same thing as having your every word and action recorded, to be later scrutinized and second guessed by Monday morning quarterbacks. Come talk to me when you're willing to give us that kind of oversight in to your job. I'll pay for the equipment and install myself!

It's not going to happen again, the new union MEC has already sent a clear message they want a more standard contract. Those days are as good as over.

Maybe true at SWA, but that doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen elsewhere. Like I said before, be creative, be constructive, be a leader! Herb Kelleher was a true leader whose employees loved him. You B19, are mearly a manager, and I think you probably already know what your employees think of you.

Unions don't want to take that risk, you know that as well as i do. That's why there are so few contracts with that carrot built in. They don't want to take a pay cut when there is no profit, they want every last golden egg that goose can produce.

IIRC, both United and Continental's unions have given up salary for a stake in the company in the past. There have probably been others too. Maybe when Flops & the 1108 start on salary & compensation, it would be worth discussing. Of course it is a much easier pill to swallow when management is risking as much or more than those they are asking to do this. Are you working without a contract? Are you salaried, or does your compensation depend on the profitability of the company? I know you won't answer these here, but answer them to yourself, then think about it for a while.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19,

Are you going to tell me you have a camera watching you in YOUR office. Recording the phone calls. Recording the meetings. Recording what you do on the computer? Yet another lie from you.


BULL!!!

Well, you are right. I don't have a camera watching every move I make, that's true. From fracs to legacy carriers many parts of any air carrier are recorded though fischman for regulatory reasons as well as training reasons.

The cameras in the workplace are there to bolster security to help people be safe. Should something occur, they will indeed help to sort out what happened to build additional safety into the building.

The NTSB has made the recommendation for the exact same reason. To keep people from dying and getting injured by helping to detirmine what happens in the event of an accident.

Apparently you feel that the NTSB does not have a valid point in their recommendation of using modern technology to the greatest extent possible. To use your own words, what are you scared of?

 

[B19 Flyer]

There are plenty of cameras for security in FBO's and on the ramps too. Pilot's don't object to this, but it isn't the same thing as having your every word and action recorded, to be later scrutinized and second guessed by Monday morning quarterbacks.

Every word you say is already recorded. The camera recommendation is there to see what is happening for those items that have no ability to otherwise be recorded. There are many things a camera will pick up that will give the final piece of the puzzle to keep others safe.

Come talk to me when you're willing to give us that kind of oversight in to your job. I'll pay for the equipment and install myself!

Once again, while every word and keystroke isn't recorded... I think you underestimate the oversight of management in any company and the microscope they are in.

Maybe true at SWA, but that doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen elsewhere. Like I said before, be creative, be constructive, be a leader! Herb Kelleher was a true leader whose employees loved him. You B19, are mearly a manager, (really?) and I think you probably already know what your employees think of you.

ROFL... if you've read my posts, you'll know that I no longer am in a position where I have employees reporting to me.

IIRC, both United and Continental's unions have given up salary for a stake in the company in the past.

It was a United Union leader that famously stated: "We don't want to kill the golden goose. We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg."

http://www.airlinesafety.com/Unions/DeadGoose.htm

You also forget that it was Frank Lorenzo that saved Continental from certain demise.


There have probably been others too. Maybe when Flops & the 1108 start on salary & compensation, it would be worth discussing. Of course it is a much easier pill to swallow when management

You keep using the word management... you DO realize that the risk is spread out over the entire organization, non-represented employees, owners, stockholders and investors, right?

is risking as much or more than those they are asking to do this.

Are you working without a contract?

Yes.

Are you salaried, or does your compensation depend on the profitability of the company?

I am salaried with a nice profit sharing program. (not a bonus). The carrier is NON-union and to reiterate earlier statements, it not only has the best pay and benefits, but also is the most secure I've ever felt with in over two decades of being in aviation. No union turmoil with any group because unions don't exist. I can't think of any group within the organization that would disagree with me on that.

I know you won't answer these here, but answer them to yourself, then think about it for a while.

....................

 

[imacdog]

Wow, just to think B actually does this for a living. What a sad existance.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Thread drift - a few ideas on the the use of cockpit image recorders (cameras!)....... come to the UK, we have the highest number of CCTV cameras anywhere!!

According to the latest studies, Britain has a staggering 4.2million CCTV cameras - one for every 14 people in the country - and 20 per cent of cameras globally. It has been calculated that each person is caught on camera an average of 300 times daily.

It's on the NTSB "to do" list - for FAA action & there was a comprehensive study by the UK CAA a couple of years ago. Also, it is on the "pending" ICAO list of safety matters. In short, it's gonna happen - & as long as the appropriate privacy safeguards are made, then that's fine with me.

There was a Trident accident near Heathrow in 1972, 188 killed; prior to that the situation with regards to cockpit voice recorder was voluntary. It became mandatory after the inquiry into the crash, as there had been no way to record who said what/did what - other than knowing that someone raised the slats too early. if you want to read the report (with some quaint proper English!), it's here - I won't link it directly, it's a large download.

Look at Flt Data Recording (FDR) - lots of "big brother will be watching me" complaints prior to its introduction, but it makes the aviation world a much safer place.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Wow, just to think B actually does this for a living. What a sad existance.

For entertainment only!

 

[fischman]

Well, you are right. I don't have a camera watching every move I make, that's true.

...So you are starting to understand huh?

 

[Semore Butts]

Again, you have problems in my opinion

B-19 says this why he comes to Flightinfo?

For entertainment only!

What kind of person comes to a website just to stir up trouble among people that are struggling to make a decent living, and people who are losing their livelyhoods?

That is how you entertain yourself?

There must be some websites that have doctors that may be able to help you with your obvious problem.

Why don't you just leave us alone?

 

[993_Pilot]

It was a United Union leader that famously stated: "We don't want to kill the golden goose. We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg."

So, one bad statement by a union leader makes all unions bad? By this logic, I guess we should throw all management in jail because a few have committed crimes while they bilked their company.

You keep using the word management... you DO realize that the risk is spread out over the entire organization, non-represented employees, owners, stockholders and investors, right?

Yes, I do, but management is typically the only ones with golden parachutes. Why is that?

Are you working without a contract?

Yes. . . I am salaried with a nice profit sharing program. (not a bonus). The carrier is NON-union and to reiterate earlier statements, it not only has the best pay and benefits, but also is the most secure I've ever felt with in over two decades of being in aviation. No union turmoil with any group because unions don't exist. I can't think of any group within the organization that would disagree with me on that.

Let me guess, a foreign carrier, either subsidized or given market protections by their government?

If (Big "IF") you aren't in management, you don't even have a dog in this hunt. So why do you spend so much time here? If you're not BT, then I think you're either another Flops Manager, or a FUD master from F&H.

 

[993_Pilot]

You're a LIAR !

ROFL... if you've read my posts, you'll know that I no longer am in a position where I have employees reporting to me.

Really? Well it just so happens that I have read your posts. Let me quote one for you . . .

(LINK) on the 16th of this month you said:

...But what do I know.. I only sign the checks.

So, I ask you, are still in management and lying now, or just don't have the courage (LINK) to be a manager any more? . . . in which case you're a liar for having said that you sign the checks on the 16th. Either way, we have now established that you're a LIAR !