FLOPS Phenom overrun

[acaTerry]

No slamming anyone here, just for info info. Good news nobody hurt. Be careful out there.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/218362721.html

 

[CALRepublic]

Good news for them is that it happened at a small Minneapolis airport, on a ferry leg. It's almost like nobody cares, CNN, ABC, nobody said anything about it....most of their owners will never know anything about it

Had this happened at LAX or SFO and they close down a runway for that, then it'd be a freaking media circus

 

[eightdriver]

Wet runway....No reverse...Not surprising. Beech Premier 1 Jets have been doing this for years.

 

[Freight Dawg]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the braking problems that the 100 had carried over to the 300 with respect to the anti-skid system not cycling correctly.

 

[BlueNose]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the braking problems that the 100 had carried over to the 300 with respect to the anti-skid system not cycling correctly.

Different system, the 300 didn't see the same issues as the 100, though there were some early brake software updates for different issues. It has a great carbon brake system, though, that can usually stop on a dime even on damp or wet runways. Snow/icy runways are a different story - it's then that you miss TRs.

This story made all the local news, with photo and video posted. Hard to tell from the pictures if they went off the end of 10L or 10R. 10L at 3900' is within company SOP, but doesn't leave much margin, especially if damp asphalt. Hope they used 10R.

The FAA incident site is listing this as an accident, with substantial damage. Sad to see, it hurts our industry when this happens to any operator. Just glad on one was hurt. Note to self, though, if this ever happens to me: stay in the plane till the news trucks are gone. Pics of both pilots made the news stories.

 

[t-bone]

Blue,

I'm with you and hope they used the longer runway. I see large biz jets landing on 27R in OAK all the time when 27L is so close, and 700' feet longer. I try to minimize things I'd have to explain if things went wrong, and the additional taxi time is negligible.

 

[Fresh Air]

No slamming anyone here, just for info info. Good news nobody hurt. Be careful out there.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/218362721.html

Ah, that will buff right out...

 

[FR8DOG777]

This is obviously an open and closed case. Pilot fatigue due to money hungry greedy management pukes stuffing their pockets full of cash while abusing the outdated rest requirements under the 135 umbrella. Pure greed running rampant and unabated. We rock, our business is up 170% over last year and we have managed to shut down two other fractionals this year alone. Yippee, now get back to work and fly your five legs a day for half of what reputable players are paying with ten hours off and no retirement.

 

[jonjuan]

This is obviously an open and closed case. Pilot fatigue due to money hungry greedy management pukes stuffing their pockets full of cash while abusing the outdated rest requirements under the 135 umbrella. Pure greed running rampant and unabated. We rock, our business is up 170% over last year and we have managed to shut down two other fractionals this year alone. Yippee, now get back to work and fly your five legs a day for half of what reputable players are paying with ten hours off and no retirement.

You don't have retirement?

 

[Newkem]

This is obviously an open and closed case. Pilot fatigue due to money hungry greedy management pukes stuffing their pockets full of cash while abusing the outdated rest requirements under the 135 umbrella. Pure greed running rampant and unabated. We rock, our business is up 170% over last year and we have managed to shut down two other fractionals this year alone. Yippee, now get back to work and fly your five legs a day for half of what reputable players are paying with ten hours off and no retirement.

GEE thanks Union Negotiator Guy!

 

[hammer2]

This is obviously an open and closed case. Pilot fatigue due to money hungry greedy management pukes stuffing their pockets full of cash while abusing the outdated rest requirements under the 135 umbrella. Pure greed running rampant and unabated. We rock, our business is up 170% over last year and we have managed to shut down two other fractionals this year alone. Yippee, now get back to work and fly your five legs a day for half of what reputable players are paying with ten hours off and no retirement.

Let me get this straight, you're giving flops the credit for Citation air and Avantair shutting down? :laugh:

 

[FR8DOG777]

Let me get this straight, you're giving flops the credit for Citation air and Avantair shutting down? :laugh:

hell yes, we do it for less so you don't have to.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Let me get this straight, you're giving flops the credit for Citation air and Avantair shutting down? :laugh:

BTW slick, how many times have you landed flying cloud when there was 3903 of runway available? Flops has been exploiting pilots and the labor market for years now. I suggest you go sing some kumbaya songs with matt sling blade slinghoff and jimmy junior about right now

 

[hammer2]

BTW slick, how many times have you landed flying cloud when there was 3903 of runway available? Flops has been exploiting pilots and the labor market for years now. I suggest you go sing some kumbaya songs with matt sling blade slinghoff and jimmy junior about right now

Never, we're limited to 4000' in our fleet...if conditions allow.


As far as the exploitation by flops...either leave or stick around for the next contract...I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[FR8DOG777]

kumbaya my lord kumbaya, keep drinking the blue juice my son, kumbaya

 

[dime line]

You don't have retirement?

That's a big 10-4 good buddy

 

[FR8DOG777]

hey ******************** for brains, since you are so knowledgeable about the fractional situation. looking at the departure time out of PA. I will bet you a months worths of paychecks these guys been running fourteen hours plus duty day for at least five day prior to this incident. Just my opinion as I am speculating. The ********************ing pricks running the show at flops should feel lucky there were no pax aboard, thats all I have to say about that. Enjoy your micro soft flight simulator!

 

[BEfly]

Flightinfo never disappoints

 

[993_Pilot]

Looks like they had been flying quite a bit, with near minimum rest the night before...

Mon 05-Aug-2013 E55P PIT PITTSBURGH INTL FCM FLYING CLOUD 7:31 AM EDT (1131Z) 8:48 AM CDT (1348Z) 2h 17m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P JYO LEESBURG EXECUTIVE PIT PITTSBURGH INTL 6:30 PM EDT (2230Z) 7: 06 PM EDT (2306Z) 36m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P TEB TETERBORO JYO LEESBURG EXECUTIVE 5:23 PM EDT (2123Z) 6:11 PM EDT (2211Z) 48m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P ACK NANTUCKET MEMORIAL TEB TETERBORO 3:14 PM EDT (1914Z) 4: 04 PM EDT (2004Z) 50m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P ROC GREATER ROCHESTER INTL ACK NANTUCKET MEMORIAL 12: 02 PM EDT (1602Z) 1:17 PM EDT (1717Z) 1h 15m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P IND INDIANAPOLIS INTL ROC GREATER ROCHESTER INTL 9: 04 AM EST (1404Z) 11:13 AM EDT (1513Z) 1h 9m Arrived

Sat 03-Aug-2013 E55P CGF CUYAHOGA COUNTY IND INDIANAPOLIS INTL 5: 03 PM EDT (2103Z) 4:57 PM EST (2157Z) 54m Arrived

Sat 03-Aug-2013 E55P SOP MOORE COUNTY CGF CUYAHOGA COUNTY 2:29 PM EDT (1829Z) 3:47 PM EDT (1947Z) 1h 18m Arrived

Sat 03-Aug-2013 E55P HTO EAST HAMPTON SOP MOORE COUNTY 12:30 PM EDT (1630Z) 1:57 PM EDT (1757Z) 1h 27m Arrived

 

[FR8DOG777]

Like I said, all you pure speculative geniuses out there have nobody to blame but the pure ********************ing greedy management pukes. I stand by every pilot at flight options, pure professionals to the end. The ********************ing greedy pukes running the show I could do without. Reap what you sow greedy mother ********************ers!

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Looks like they had been flying quite a bit, with near minimum rest the night before...

Mon 05-Aug-2013 E55P PIT PITTSBURGH INTL FCM FLYING CLOUD 7:31 AM EDT (1131Z) 8:48 AM CDT (1348Z) 2h 17m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P JYO LEESBURG EXECUTIVE PIT PITTSBURGH INTL 6:30 PM EDT (2230Z) 7: 06 PM EDT (2306Z) 36m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P TEB TETERBORO JYO LEESBURG EXECUTIVE 5:23 PM EDT (2123Z) 6:11 PM EDT (2211Z) 48m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P ACK NANTUCKET MEMORIAL TEB TETERBORO 3:14 PM EDT (1914Z) 4: 04 PM EDT (2004Z) 50m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P ROC GREATER ROCHESTER INTL ACK NANTUCKET MEMORIAL 12: 02 PM EDT (1602Z) 1:17 PM EDT (1717Z) 1h 15m Arrived

Sun 04-Aug-2013 E55P IND INDIANAPOLIS INTL ROC GREATER ROCHESTER INTL 9: 04 AM EST (1404Z) 11:13 AM EDT (1513Z) 1h 9m Arrived

Sat 03-Aug-2013 E55P CGF CUYAHOGA COUNTY IND INDIANAPOLIS INTL 5: 03 PM EDT (2103Z) 4:57 PM EST (2157Z) 54m Arrived

Sat 03-Aug-2013 E55P SOP MOORE COUNTY CGF CUYAHOGA COUNTY 2:29 PM EDT (1829Z) 3:47 PM EDT (1947Z) 1h 18m Arrived

Sat 03-Aug-2013 E55P HTO EAST HAMPTON SOP MOORE COUNTY 12:30 PM EDT (1630Z) 1:57 PM EDT (1757Z) 1h 27m Arrived

You assume it was the same crew, pairings can change. You can't determine crew rest / duty time issues based on Flightaware..... Maybe you can, I can't.....If you can you are SuperPilot

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Like I said, all you pure speculative geniuses out there have nobody to blame but the pure ********************ing greedy management pukes. I stand by every pilot at flight options, pure professionals to the end. The ********************ing greedy pukes running the show I could do without. Reap what you sow greedy mother ********************ers!

I REALLY hope you get banned. Mods how do I report a post?

 

[FR8DOG777]

I REALLY hope you get banned. Mods how do I report a post?

No CREW CHANGE! Go fish know it all. This is a pro pilot board las time I checked!

 

[FR8DOG777]

BTW Joe Jet Pilot is very much not a real pilot, but a company spokesperson or an attorney from Ford and Harrison so believe who you will. Company induced pilot fatigue...Final ruling.....freightdawg777

 

[Newkem]

I REALLY hope you get banned. Mods how do I report a post?

Mods were furloughed due sequester cuts. Good luck using your own ignore function, you are on your own.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Company induced pilot fatigue...Final ruling.....freightdawg777

C'mon Dawg. You know better than that. Even if the crew in question had been pounded the entire week and fatigue was a HUGE factor, NTSB will never list it as primary probable cause.

Crew fatigue MIGHT be listed as a contributing factor along with a contaminated runway.

Absent a documented mechnical failure that we don't know about yet, the blame will be placed fully and squarely (unfortunately) on the flight crew.

The NTSB has always been reluctant to call out an operator on fatigue issues as major factors in an accident. The DC-8 at Gitmo and Colgan are the only two cases I can recall where fatigue was cited as MAJOR contributors to the accident and even then they tossed much of that responsibility on the crew, not the company.

Then again, hope springs eternal and maybe this time some of the focus will move toward scheduling practices at ALL fractional operators.

Regardless, I feel bad for the crew and I'm just thankful nobody got hurt.

 

[jonjuan]

C'mon Dawg. You know better than that. Even if the crew in question had been pounded the entire week and fatigue was a HUGE factor, NTSB will never list it as primary probable cause.

Crew fatigue MIGHT be listed as a contributing factor along with a contaminated runway.

Absent a documented mechnical failure that we don't know about yet, the blame will be placed fully and squarely (unfortunately) on the flight crew.

The NTSB has always been reluctant to call out an operator on fatigue issues as major factors in an accident. The DC-8 at Gitmo and Colgan are the only two cases I can recall where fatigue was cited as MAJOR contributors to the accident and even then they tossed much of that responsibility on the crew, not the company.

Then again, hope springs eternal and maybe this time some of the focus will move toward scheduling practices at ALL fractional operators.

Regardless, I feel bad for the crew and I'm just thankful nobody got hurt.

If they were fatigued, then why not call in fatigued? It happens often at nj. No questions asked.

 

[dime line]

If they were fatigued, then why not call in fatigued? It happens often at nj. No questions asked.

Same at Options, not one pilot has ever been called to CGF for calling Fatigue.

 

[Pervis]

Same at Options, not one pilot has ever been called to CGF for calling Fatigue.

Pilots have indeed been called in to CMH for excessive fatigue and sick calls. On the one hand, if a pilot uses well beyond their earned sick days over an extended period of time and fatigues frequently, if I were a manager I would like to know if the well being of my employee was at risk, placing the pax and entire company at risk. On the other hand, some are easily indimidated and such management tactics can be utilized to discourage otherwise valid fatigue calls.

The URP report was always designed to intimidate. If management truely wanted data to track the 'why' of fatigue, all they have to do is look back on the pilot's tour. The added burden of a report that has mostly invalid questions and the threat of the loss of .75 days of accrued sick time is more than onerous. The recent increase in Bridgeway 1 arrivals adds to an ever increasing hostile work environment typical of section 6 anti union tactics. For you trolls lurking out there, it's only strengthening our resolve.

 

[acaTerry]

C'mon Dawg. You know better than that. Even if the crew in question had been pounded the entire week and fatigue was a HUGE factor, NTSB will never list it as primary probable cause.

Crew fatigue MIGHT be listed as a contributing factor along with a contaminated runway.

Absent a documented mechnical failure that we don't know about yet, the blame will be placed fully and squarely (unfortunately) on the flight crew.

The NTSB has always been reluctant to call out an operator on fatigue issues as major factors in an accident. The DC-8 at Gitmo and Colgan are the only two cases I can recall where fatigue was cited as MAJOR contributors to the accident and even then they tossed much of that responsibility on the crew, not the company.

Then again, hope springs eternal and maybe this time some of the focus will move toward scheduling practices at ALL fractional operators.

Regardless, I feel bad for the crew and I'm just thankful nobody got hurt.

It will never happen. They rob the bank, shoot the clerk, fill the bag, and we get stuck holding it.