Flight cancellations surge at American Airlines

[HelloNewman]

If it weren't for those " insulting, violent, and childish" union members, present and past, "YOU" sir would not be enjoying the current pay, benefits, and safe working conditions that have been fought for, throughout the industry. Interesting how "YOUR" kind will be the first to cash in a pay raise without remorse for your LACK of contribution...

This is almost identical to the way the mafia runs their business. No wonder why so many Unions are corrupt. Just another example of hypocrisy. Union guys would be more than happy to burn a guys house down for crossing a line but if THEIR house got burned they would be the first to squeal like little baby piggies. Like I have said before I would never cross a picket line but I also don't hold any grudges against our guys that have in the past. Remember that thing called freedom of choice?

 

[B-atch]

This is almost identical to the way the mafia runs their business. No wonder why so many Unions are corrupt. Just another example of hypocrisy. Union guys would be more than happy to burn a guys house down for crossing a line but if THEIR house got burned they would be the first to squeal like little baby piggies. Like I have said before I would never cross a picket line but I also don't hold any grudges against our guys that have in the past. Remember that thing called freedom of choice?

Finish YOUR statement.... But if given the opportunity, You would probably cross....Cut from the same cloth as G4.....Pathetic.

 

[B-atch]

...No more TROLL feeding. Back to the thread title.
Flight cancellations surge at American Airlines

 

[G4dude]

Question: Is it still a closed shop over there? Sounds like it is if you were "forced" to join... Do you know what happens in a closed shop if you get thrown out of the union? Why don't you show these posts to your union leadership and let them take a vote on your membership standing?

Pretty sure if you look into it, you don't have the right to act on any of this crap you're spewing. I mean you can, you just can't do it and keep your job. No matter how eager a bootlicker you are. That's the way it used to be over there.

Do you mean the union could vote me out if they did not like my opinions about unions? I didn't know that, and it sounds amazingly unfair. What crap are you referring to that I spew and how would I act on it? Can I not have my own opinion?
I would NOT show the union honchos my posts precisely because of how they might act, and shame on any union members who would applaud me being intimidated by the leadership or the rank and file goons. All because I believe in the free market and individual relationships with employers.

 

[G4dude]

Finish YOUR statement.... But if given the opportunity, You would probably cross....Cut from the same cloth as G4.....Pathetic.

If my union struck my company and I did not agree with that action, I would cross the line. Nothing pathetic about that. I would not try to intimidate anyone who struck, that is their individual choice. Why in the world should I strike when I don't agree with it? You have the right to leave your job and I have the right to not leave mine.

 

[G4dude]

Question: Is it still a closed shop over there? Sounds like it is if you were "forced" to join... Do you know what happens in a closed shop if you get thrown out of the union? Why don't you show these posts to your union leadership and let them take a vote on your membership standing?

Pretty sure if you look into it, you don't have the right to act on any of this crap you're spewing. I mean you can, you just can't do it and keep your job. No matter how eager a bootlicker you are. That's the way it used to be over there.

I don't lick boots, I just fly airplanes and let the managers run the company.

 

[Flopgut]

Do you mean the union could vote me out if they did not like my opinions about unions? I didn't know that, and it sounds amazingly unfair. What crap are you referring to that I spew and how would I act on it? Can I not have my own opinion?
I would NOT show the union honchos my posts precisely because of how they might act, and shame on any union members who would applaud me being intimidated by the leadership or the rank and file goons. All because I believe in the free market and individual relationships with employers.

You do not understand a closed shop.

"amazingly unfair"? you're already a second class member just by showing your true colors and flying for NJI. You had better not test those former teamsters or you'll be looking for job number 12 (or whatever number you're up to) Its a matter of federal law: you do not have the right to act like you are...

 

[J.Otto]

union guys are a strange lot.

 

[waveflyer]

Ah, the anti union crowd speaks- go ahead, have your own opinions- voice them, and be heard- in a proper format- but when the time for action comes- band together and unify on agreed objectives: it's how games on fields and courts are won whether played by professionals or children; it's how battles are won where real lives are at stake, its how wars are won, and how FREE countries are formed and governed. I would imagine in your G4 world it would be ok to commit treason if it benefitted you?

This career was not formed by always agreeing on every detail- it was formed and made respectable by working the process, AND WHEN THAT PROCESS REQUIRED ACTION, IT WAS FORMED BY UNITY OF DEMOCRATIC CONCENSUS.

I know dozens who have not always agreed- and they made it known, participating fully in their union and letting their voice be heard- often demanding it be heard- talking, working, leading- this is NOT some outside force acting on any pilot except the most weak and apathetic.
What those dozens never did is act individually when their unified team made a hard decision- disagreeing or not. They stood strong at all times.

So, if you guys don't know who Ford and Harrison is: they can often be traced to accounts w/ 25 posts- welcome to the discussion- any pilot on here weak dicked enough to be influenced, deserves the career they get.

 

[B-atch]

If my union struck my company and I did not agree with that action, I would cross the line. Nothing pathetic about that. I would not try to intimidate anyone who struck, that is their individual choice. Why in the world should I strike when I don't agree with it? You have the right to leave your job and I have the right to not leave mine.

Your IGNORANCE in union matters feeds your oversimplistic views of the "Real World".
Going on "Strike" is not an individual choice, it is a group effort..
Strength in numbers. The sacrifice of the many will benefit ALL, including the "NON PARTICIPANTS". Get it. Without unity we have, well..... The likes of G4 and friends.

 

[SXMp2c]

62 Tues
29 Wed
11 Today so far

(cancellations at American)

 

[AA717driver]

AMR is threatening legal action to stop the pilots from taking MX delays.

Please, go to court to force us to stop writing up cabin or cosmetic items when we are made aware of them.

"Your Honor, we are simply requesting a restraining order to force the pilots to not log maintenance item until the end of the day when contract mx can deal with them in a manner that won't cause the operation to completely come unglued."

Go ahead...

TC

 

[Angus Khan]

G4, you go ahead and cross that line. I think you're looking through rose colored glasses though. I'm no big union guy, but who else do we pilots have on our side but ourselves? The press, the FAA, the docs, airline managements, the judges, Wall Street and the general public pretty much don't see our side of things nor understand or give a rip as to what we've endured and live with. If we cannot stand in unity together we are more screwed than ever.

 

[G4dude]

You do not understand a closed shop.

"amazingly unfair"? you're already a second class member just by showing your true colors and flying for NJI. You had better not test those former teamsters or you'll be looking for job number 12 (or whatever number you're up to) Its a matter of federal law: you do not have the right to act like you are...

What actions of mine are not allowed? How could I lose my job for believing the way I do?

 

[G4dude]

union guys are a strange lot.

They surely are. Their definition of going along with the group is to go along with THEIR group. There is a large group at my company who are not ardent unionists, but I don't see any calls here for US to act as a group. Pretty funny.

 

[G4dude]

G4, you go ahead and cross that line. I think you're looking through rose colored glasses though. I'm no big union guy, but who else do we pilots have on our side but ourselves? The press, the FAA, the docs, airline managements, the judges, Wall Street and the general public pretty much don't see our side of things nor understand or give a rip as to what we've endured and live with. If we cannot stand in unity together we are more screwed than ever.

Fair post. I feel we all, as INDIVIDUALS, should deal with our employers. I don't understand forcing them to treat us the way we want when it is their company. If we don't like our jobs, let's go elsewhere. Our freedom to do just that helps keep our pay up, because training costs are so high.

 

[G4dude]

Your IGNORANCE in union matters feeds your oversimplistic views of the "Real World".
Going on "Strike" is not an individual choice, it is a group effort..
Strength in numbers. The sacrifice of the many will benefit ALL, including the "NON PARTICIPANTS". Get it. Without unity we have, well..... The likes of G4 and friends.

Well put, but I just don't agree.

 

[B727FA]

No, CNN is to the left. But CNN's degree of extremism isn't as bad as Fox's. My preferred news source and channel is BBC. That is fair and balanced. They report the who, what, where, when, just as news was meant to be, without the right wing or left wing slams.

Amen.

 

[nordo_2]

Well put, but I just don't agree.

Crossing a legal picket line, while never going to be my choice. Has been done by a few pilots in the past. I think the boys are just expressing their disgust in an expressive manner. I can’t think of anyone actually being harmed. Scabs even manage to eek out careers. Netjets has more than a few, as most airlines do. So, you would be in good company. I would call it bad company.

So how about those greedy union grubbing Referees?

 

[ultrarunner]

If my union struck my company and I did not agree with that action, I would cross the line. Nothing pathetic about that. ...

If you fukked up and the company decided to terminate you, would you expect to be backed by the union, or if the union felt (for whatever reason) that you're expendable you'd be ok with that too?

Just asking...

 

[J.Otto]

Crossing a legal picket line, while never going to be my choice. Has been done by a few pilots in the past. I think the boys are just expressing their disgust in an expressive manner. I can’t think of anyone actually being harmed. Scabs even manage to eek out careers. Netjets has more than a few, as most airlines do. So, you would be in good company. I would call it bad company.

So how about those greedy union grubbing Referees?

Crossing the picket line is the BEST way to get hired quick!

G4Dude has it right.

 

[J.Otto]

You think being called a scab bothers people? Get real. Money and a job trumps name-calling from some union thug who is limited to only toe the line.

 

[SXMp2c]

up to 18 cancellations today

 

[nordo_2]

Crossing the picket line is the BEST way to get hired quick!

G4Dude has it right.

Just a question. Is this how you got hired?

 

[B-atch]

Just a question. Is this how you got hired?

Don't FEED the trolls...

 

[nordo_2]

Don't FEED the trolls...

My bad...

 

[jetlag7]

Don't FEED the trolls...

There has been some degree of success in the Fractional forums abstaining from feeding this particular group of trolls -- probably why they decided to look for snacks in the Majors forum .....

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Fair post. I feel we all, as INDIVIDUALS, should deal with our employers. I don't understand forcing them to treat us the way we want when it is their company. If we don't like our jobs, let's go elsewhere. Our freedom to do just that helps keep our pay up, because training costs are so high.

What you say may make sense in the corporate world. I'm not a corporate pilot so I wouldn't know. However, being an airline pilot, I can tell you that your ideas are quite different from the reality we deal with. And since you aren't an airline pilot, you have no idea what our seniority based RLA hogtied world really is like.

 

[Dan Roman]

Fair post. I feel we all, as INDIVIDUALS, should deal with our employers. I don't understand forcing them to treat us the way we want when it is their company. If we don't like our jobs, let's go elsewhere. Our freedom to do just that helps keep our pay up, because training costs are so high.

In other words, you want to do whatever you can that is most beneficial to your own self interest.
Unions are not perfect, but by and large they are able to democratically come up with a position that is most beneficial to the majority and protect everyone's best interest. Unfortunately unions are always having to deal with individuals that care more about their own interests than what is best for all.
Wherever you work or whatever you fly. Your pay would be lower had it not been for ALPA. Yes even corporate pilots.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Wherever you work or whatever you fly. Your pay would be lower had it not been for ALPA. Yes even corporate pilots.

This bears repeating. It's apparent some pilots think they operate in an economic vacuum, where in reality, it's one giant job market, with skills easily transferable between the airline, corporate, and fractional worlds.

Collective bargaining will always trounce individual bargaining. In order to collectively bargain you have to stick together, with a unified voice. It may seem as though you surrender autonomy, (you do, other than by your voting) but there is no other way to bargain as one. If you don't agree with the actions of the whole, don't cross -- might I suggest simply finding another job with your highly-effective bargaining skills.


Now, enough feeding of the trolls. They are here for their entertainment and can't possibly simultaneously believe what they write while still being professional pilots.