Flight cancellations surge at American Airlines

[ironspud]

I must confess, it makes me smile to read that to be pro union takes "guts." It never takes guts to run with the herd, especially if it is ignorantly over a cliff.

Here here. I've alway thought of union members as pretty much nothing more that cowardly sheep.

 

[kf4amu]

Then go fly for another company. Good luck with that in this economy.

How do you address the fact that this isn't an option? It's akin to losing your job anyway.

 

[aa73]

Then go fly for another company. Good luck with that in this economy.

And with that statement you prove our point perfectly. As you well know, starting over at another airline requires giving up years of seniority, pay, benefits, etc. In this economy, to boot, it would pretty much be a death sentence. So given all of that, we stay at our company and fight to the death for what is fair for us, and we fight to the death against the corruption, arrogance and greed that is management. Somewhere between incompetence and death, is where our industry leading contract lies. And we WILL achieve it or die trying. And then the rebuilding of our profession and the new AA will resume. Until then, brace for war. Business as usual, status quo when we're dealing with union busting management, all been done before... nothing to see here.

 

[G4dude]

And with that statement you prove our point perfectly. As you well know, starting over at another airline requires giving up years of seniority, pay, benefits, etc. In this economy, to boot, it would pretty much be a death sentence. So given all of that, we stay at our company and fight to the death for what is fair for us, and we fight to the death against the corruption, arrogance and greed that is management. Somewhere between incompetence and death, is where our industry leading contract lies. And we WILL achieve it or die trying. And then the rebuilding of our profession and the new AA will resume. Until then, brace for war. Business as usual, status quo when we're dealing with union busting management, all been done before... nothing to see here.

You have correctly identified the problem, which is the seniority system, which inhibits portability of skills from company to company. Do you know who embedded seniority in our profession? The unions, I believe. A manager can hire on to another company without having to start at the bottom, but not a pilot. What a shame. I do hope y'all are successful, as I don't want to see anybody go through what I did for 20 years, unemployment and stress and desperation. Lots of bad memories, still painful.

 

[G4dude]

How do you address the fact that this isn't an option? It's akin to losing your job anyway.

I guess you are right. You guys still make more than most people, don't you? I was looking at pilot pay sites, and AA seems to be pretty good. This economy is flat, debt ridden and slowing. Maybe living to fight another day when the economy is stronger might be a good idea. I don't want AA pilots to go through what happened at Eastern, and there seem to be lots of parallels. Good luck!

 

[G4dude]

If you cross the picket line, you undermine the strike and therefore the efforts of those "brave" men who risk their jobs to improve their, and the rest of the professions' future.

If on the other hand you are criticized for doing so, labeled a scab, or otherwise ostracized you are no worse than you are today.... and your lively hood is unaffected in the corporate pilot universe.

If you strike, I won't ostracize you. If I go to work, you will ostracize me for the rest of my career. See the difference? You should be free to strike, and I should be free to not strike. Yet, you would not be coerced and I would be. I am a member of a union, by the way.

 

[B-atch]

If you strike, I won't ostracize you. If I go to work, you will ostracize me for the rest of my career. See the difference? You should be free to strike, and I should be free to not strike. Yet, you would not be coerced and I would be. I am a member of a union, by the way.

Spoken like a true, legitimate XXXXX....
We all obviously know what YOUR true colors are...

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

If you strike, I won't ostracize you. If I go to work, you will ostracize me for the rest of my career. See the difference? You should be free to strike, and I should be free to not strike. Yet, you would not be coerced and I would be. I am a member of a union, by the way.

After reading your posts and your personal information, I see that you have absolutely ZERO experience in Airline flying, is that correct?

 

[Quimby]

I guess you are right. You guys still make more than most people, don't you? I was looking at pilot pay sites, and AA seems to be pretty good. This economy is flat, debt ridden and slowing. Maybe living to fight another day when the economy is stronger might be a good idea. I don't want AA pilots to go through what happened at Eastern, and there seem to be lots of parallels. Good luck!

Ridiculous question. Does the majority of the working population have the skills, knowledge & training to do the job? Umm, no.

What would you say if your employer decided to lower your pay to "Joe Six-pack salary +5%". And then told you...."hey, you still make more than most people, what's the problem?" You'd be OK with that, right?

 

[aa73]

You have correctly identified the problem, which is the seniority system, which inhibits portability of skills from company to company. Do you know who embedded seniority in our profession? The unions, I believe. A manager can hire on to another company without having to start at the bottom, but not a pilot. What a shame. I do hope y'all are successful, as I don't want to see anybody go through what I did for 20 years, unemployment and stress and desperation. Lots of bad memories, still painful.

Thanks for the good wishes.... seriously.

Re: seniority system. Well, WITHOUT the seniority system, we would have CAs upgrading based on, what... shmoozing? connections? clout? How about hiring... how about we hire some fancy shmancy Air Force One pilot and stick him halfway up the list based on his quals? See where I'm going with this. The seniority system ensures fairness based on one thing only - longevity. And that is WELL worth the downside - not being able to make lateral moves.

 

[BoilerUP]

...just imagine the howls if somebody said "Hey I'll fly that Gulfstream of yours for $80k year."

Yeah a long-range international bizjet SHOULD pay much better but 80k is still well above the median household income, and the economy is weak, and legacy G-strings cost about $4k/hr to operate.

Better to keep the company solvent than go the way of GM's flight department, lots of parallels...

 

[Dizel8]

G4dude,

Just keep driving you G4, oh golly, how cool is that?

The AA debacle is caused by management, and management alone, the pilots of American are simply doing their job, and doing so incredibly well under very trying circumstances.

You are blind to the issues they are facing, maybe you have flown one too many executives and now you are thinking like them. I mean after all, you did carry their luggage!

Unless you have a vested interest, and I can't see you would, then maybe you should consider your postings more carefully.

 

[kf4amu]

If you strike, I won't ostracize you. If I go to work, you will ostracize me for the rest of my career. See the difference? You should be free to strike, and I should be free to not strike. Yet, you would not be coerced and I would be. I am a member of a union, by the way.

You are free to strike or not strike. You aren't free to force other people to have a positive opinion of your actions.

 

[kf4amu]

I guess you are right. You guys still make more than most people, don't you? I was looking at pilot pay sites, and AA seems to be pretty good. This economy is flat, debt ridden and slowing. Maybe living to fight another day when the economy is stronger might be a good idea. I don't want AA pilots to go through what happened at Eastern, and there seem to be lots of parallels. Good luck!

Well I'm at a commuter so no I don't make more than most people, but that's irrelevant anyway.

I think you gotta come to terms with the fact that AA pilots know the possibilities of their actions and have decided that the risk is worth it. Especially when you have a merger partner that EVERYONE is hoping takes over their company except management who stands to make millions if they exit bankruptcy standalone. This merger will create a stronger company better able to withstand the slowing, debt ridden, flat economy, yet management is leaning on pilots to take unnecessary concessions.

 

[JetMonkey]

Well I'm at a commuter so no I don't make more than most people, but that's irrelevant anyway.

I think you gotta come to terms with the fact that AA pilots know the possibilities of their actions and have decided that the risk is worth it. Especially when you have a merger partner that EVERYONE is hoping takes over their company except management who stands to make millions if they exit bankruptcy standalone. This merger will create a stronger company better able to withstand the slowing, debt ridden, flat economy, yet management is leaning on pilots to take unnecessary concessions.

Case and point, you shouldn't be posting on this board. Telling these WAY higher experienced professionals than you that they should just shut up and go to work shows how little (if any) you know wtf you're talking about.