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Flexjet?
- Thread starter ductleak
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- Watchers 13
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fuzzydice
Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2003
- Posts
- 20
Duct,
Congrats on the interview.
Schedule:
13 bid periods a year. Guranteed 17 days of pay during any bid period, except a bid period where you have training or vacation scheduled - then the guarantee is 16.
Most people work 17 day lines. You can bid up to 19 or down to 14. Getting less than 16-17 is hard to do because crew ratios are so tight right now.
Trips/Rotations/Tours (pick your terminology) can vary in length from 5 to 7 days. You bid your schedule via a program called PBS. Bid periods close in time for you to have your schedule about a month in advance. You can bid for specific days off, strings of days, weekends off, etc... Honestly, the crew ratios are so low right now, that if you put more than a couple of constraints in your bid - you'll probably be disappointed.
Pay:
Pay is a little bit better than NJA or Options for First Officers, but not by much. You are paid a daily rate. Hourly overtime for any duty over 12 hours in a day. I'm not going to tell you what daily overtime rates are because I don't encourage anyone to volunteer for it - too many qualified pilots out on the street. Also, you didn't ask, but upgrades times are going to be long here. There's not a ton of movement, although we are anticipating some movement from the addition of the Challenger 300 fleet, small number of retirements... but to be honest. Expect to be on the FO payscale for a while. I believe the most senior FOs are on their 4th year pay right now.
Treatment:
We do not have a union on the property. I don't think we ever will until the top 25% of the seniority list retires. They started the company, they think it's great (obviously, they fly the senior equipment and make the most money), and when they're not drinking the Kool-Aid, they're making a new batch to share with you. Obviously, there are exceptions.
In spite of not having union representation or a collective bargaining agreement in place, it's not too bad of a place to work. I've worked at better places, and I've worked at worse. I hear lots of stories about folks being terminated for no reason. I think most of these are baseless. There could be exceptions, but anytime it's happened, you just have to ask around and dig a little - and you find out the real reason why.
I'm not the perfect employee, and I get my share of phone calls... but all in all, I think we're treated fairly.
Future:
There has been a general trend in the last couple of years. Bombardier, I believe, has been grooming FlexJet for a sale. Our budget has been trimmed, costs cut, crew ratios reduced. We operate in the black. Just add a big red ribbon and a for sale sign. Bombardier has divested a number of other divisions to focus more on core products. I'm not really certain that FlexJet is a "core" Bombardier product.
The upside is that there is a forecast for growth in the industry as the economy continues its recovery. What's FlexJet's share? That's up to our sales team. FlexJet has a number of sales programs that are very attractive. We have Learjets... the airplane that most new entrants into the market think about when considering a corporate jet. We are also wholly owned by the manufacturer (at least for now), which means that the support we receive to provide a quality service/product to our customers is unparalleled.
My .02:
I really prefer the 121 world. I enjoyed knowing what city I would be in on which day, or at the very least, if I was sitting reserve - what hours of the day the company owned me. I felt more secure with a union in place, knowing that if something happened let's say to my particular model of aircraft (emergency AD), that I wouldn't be furloughed out of seniority instead of being retrained. (Hasn't happened here, by the way... but you never know.)
There are some perks to this job. You are treated like a human being for the most part. Decent crew meals, restrictions on duty for early starts, flying BRAND SPANKING NEW airplanes, and the occasional overnight on a Caribbean island.
All in all, it's a pretty standard place to work, and it's a steady paycheck. Good luck in the interview.
Congrats on the interview.
Schedule:
13 bid periods a year. Guranteed 17 days of pay during any bid period, except a bid period where you have training or vacation scheduled - then the guarantee is 16.
Most people work 17 day lines. You can bid up to 19 or down to 14. Getting less than 16-17 is hard to do because crew ratios are so tight right now.
Trips/Rotations/Tours (pick your terminology) can vary in length from 5 to 7 days. You bid your schedule via a program called PBS. Bid periods close in time for you to have your schedule about a month in advance. You can bid for specific days off, strings of days, weekends off, etc... Honestly, the crew ratios are so low right now, that if you put more than a couple of constraints in your bid - you'll probably be disappointed.
Pay:
Pay is a little bit better than NJA or Options for First Officers, but not by much. You are paid a daily rate. Hourly overtime for any duty over 12 hours in a day. I'm not going to tell you what daily overtime rates are because I don't encourage anyone to volunteer for it - too many qualified pilots out on the street. Also, you didn't ask, but upgrades times are going to be long here. There's not a ton of movement, although we are anticipating some movement from the addition of the Challenger 300 fleet, small number of retirements... but to be honest. Expect to be on the FO payscale for a while. I believe the most senior FOs are on their 4th year pay right now.
Treatment:
We do not have a union on the property. I don't think we ever will until the top 25% of the seniority list retires. They started the company, they think it's great (obviously, they fly the senior equipment and make the most money), and when they're not drinking the Kool-Aid, they're making a new batch to share with you. Obviously, there are exceptions.
In spite of not having union representation or a collective bargaining agreement in place, it's not too bad of a place to work. I've worked at better places, and I've worked at worse. I hear lots of stories about folks being terminated for no reason. I think most of these are baseless. There could be exceptions, but anytime it's happened, you just have to ask around and dig a little - and you find out the real reason why.
I'm not the perfect employee, and I get my share of phone calls... but all in all, I think we're treated fairly.
Future:
There has been a general trend in the last couple of years. Bombardier, I believe, has been grooming FlexJet for a sale. Our budget has been trimmed, costs cut, crew ratios reduced. We operate in the black. Just add a big red ribbon and a for sale sign. Bombardier has divested a number of other divisions to focus more on core products. I'm not really certain that FlexJet is a "core" Bombardier product.
The upside is that there is a forecast for growth in the industry as the economy continues its recovery. What's FlexJet's share? That's up to our sales team. FlexJet has a number of sales programs that are very attractive. We have Learjets... the airplane that most new entrants into the market think about when considering a corporate jet. We are also wholly owned by the manufacturer (at least for now), which means that the support we receive to provide a quality service/product to our customers is unparalleled.
My .02:
I really prefer the 121 world. I enjoyed knowing what city I would be in on which day, or at the very least, if I was sitting reserve - what hours of the day the company owned me. I felt more secure with a union in place, knowing that if something happened let's say to my particular model of aircraft (emergency AD), that I wouldn't be furloughed out of seniority instead of being retrained. (Hasn't happened here, by the way... but you never know.)
There are some perks to this job. You are treated like a human being for the most part. Decent crew meals, restrictions on duty for early starts, flying BRAND SPANKING NEW airplanes, and the occasional overnight on a Caribbean island.
All in all, it's a pretty standard place to work, and it's a steady paycheck. Good luck in the interview.
BigFlyr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 359
"Fuzzy"... Nice post. I was only there for about 5 months but everything you stated was just as I remember it. Sometimes they work you pretty hard, other times very little but usually treated like a person. No, maybe not the best but definitely not the worst! I'm hopeful for the pilot group that Flexjet manages to survive. Good luck!
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Pugnacious G
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Posts
- 36
LXJ31
dirka dirka jihad dirka
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Posts
- 309
I will. My understanding was that the furlough that happened in '02 involved the letting go of 3 people out of seniority in the total number of people let go. I don't know if they were all Challenger PICs but I don't think so. Also, all the people let go at that time were given some sort of separation package so letting go those 3 at the same time was an entitlement to them ie. if they just been fired the following week they would have gotten zilch.
I have heard the bad rap that Flexjet gets from stories about alleged arbitrary firings and I can honestly say that every single example I have heard about someone getting canned undeservedly has proven legitimate if you take time to find out the details. I had a good friend here who was fired a while back and while I still like the guy, I heard both sides and while his supervisor had bad people skills, I have to agree my friend had more than a couple chances to fly straight, as it were. The next story I hear all the details of and it involves someone getting fired because management has it out for him/her will be the first.
I have heard the bad rap that Flexjet gets from stories about alleged arbitrary firings and I can honestly say that every single example I have heard about someone getting canned undeservedly has proven legitimate if you take time to find out the details. I had a good friend here who was fired a while back and while I still like the guy, I heard both sides and while his supervisor had bad people skills, I have to agree my friend had more than a couple chances to fly straight, as it were. The next story I hear all the details of and it involves someone getting fired because management has it out for him/her will be the first.
Thats just hear say!! We cant even work 8 days in a row. The max is 7 and then you get atleast 4 days off. The number of days on can vary from 4-7 with 3-5 days off after. The normal bid is 17 days per bid period, 13 bids per year. The schedules are made by looking at the company needs, owner demand and the the employee's needs. In that order.
Hey Ductleak,
I know a Lear 60 FO who has been in the FO position since he started - 4 years ago.... I also know NJA pilots used in demonstration work (with prospective customers) who bring up that Flexjet has been furloughing pilots (insinuating that Flexjet is not financially viable - trying to get the customers to sign with NJA instead). Before you consider Flexjet, consider the L-T implications given its volatile history with pilots. Hey, I wouldn't mind flying a Lear 60, but 4 years as FO????? I'd also consider Citationshares and NJA - both have bases out of Dallas...
Good luck and keep us posted with your results...
I know a Lear 60 FO who has been in the FO position since he started - 4 years ago.... I also know NJA pilots used in demonstration work (with prospective customers) who bring up that Flexjet has been furloughing pilots (insinuating that Flexjet is not financially viable - trying to get the customers to sign with NJA instead). Before you consider Flexjet, consider the L-T implications given its volatile history with pilots. Hey, I wouldn't mind flying a Lear 60, but 4 years as FO????? I'd also consider Citationshares and NJA - both have bases out of Dallas...
Good luck and keep us posted with your results...
I think this is my 500th post! Yippee!!!!!!
No, Ductleak, I wish I were though. I have had my stuff in with NJA for quite some time. I would do anything to fly my dream bird - the Citation X. Incidentally, I have met a couple of former commuter guys who now have my dream job - flying the X for NJA. One guy flew for Comair and the other flew for Eagle - both love flying the X and the variety of destinations their job entails - one has flown to Hawaii 4 times already in his first year. Not bad.
Flying for Flexjet would be great if there was more movement - hopefully that will happen with the Challenger 300. NJA seems to be more financially secure with Warren Buffet's support - now if they can just negotiate a good contract... If I were you, I would definitely try to network with existing NJA pilots and be ready once hiring restarts. In my opinion, with a better contract, NJA could be a CAREER destination.
Good luck and keep us posted.
No, Ductleak, I wish I were though. I have had my stuff in with NJA for quite some time. I would do anything to fly my dream bird - the Citation X. Incidentally, I have met a couple of former commuter guys who now have my dream job - flying the X for NJA. One guy flew for Comair and the other flew for Eagle - both love flying the X and the variety of destinations their job entails - one has flown to Hawaii 4 times already in his first year. Not bad.
Flying for Flexjet would be great if there was more movement - hopefully that will happen with the Challenger 300. NJA seems to be more financially secure with Warren Buffet's support - now if they can just negotiate a good contract... If I were you, I would definitely try to network with existing NJA pilots and be ready once hiring restarts. In my opinion, with a better contract, NJA could be a CAREER destination.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I was one of the guys who were "let-go" back in 01' and I'm now at NJA.
I was "recalled" in Feb 02' but turned it down (which was good since I would have been laid-off again!) because I was already with NJA.
Just went out here in Dallas with my buddy who is a LR60 FO (been there 3-years and no end in sigh....even with the 300 coming).
He told me the company just raised the 17 day-a-month schedule to an 18 day-a-month schedule...came to them in the form of a weekly voice message from the CP. Who says you don't need a UNION?!
In the last several months there have been 1/2-dozen people who left to pursue other careers because they can't take it anymore. Company has taken the position: "If you don't like it....someone else will take your position"......that's why they are hiring again. Most of the people leaving are VERY JUNIOR.....
I was "recalled" in Feb 02' but turned it down (which was good since I would have been laid-off again!) because I was already with NJA.
Just went out here in Dallas with my buddy who is a LR60 FO (been there 3-years and no end in sigh....even with the 300 coming).
He told me the company just raised the 17 day-a-month schedule to an 18 day-a-month schedule...came to them in the form of a weekly voice message from the CP. Who says you don't need a UNION?!
In the last several months there have been 1/2-dozen people who left to pursue other careers because they can't take it anymore. Company has taken the position: "If you don't like it....someone else will take your position"......that's why they are hiring again. Most of the people leaving are VERY JUNIOR.....
Actually we went to the 18 day bid for 2 bid periods. Yes it was done by wonderful voice mail, but it was from our wonderful DO. What you did leave out is that if you get over 17 you will then be paid at the OT rate. Also, the last 5 guys to leave were captains so its both SR and JR. I am far from the company person. I do however try to give all the facts.
If someone is looking at Flexjet for a career, look elsewhere. If you need something to pay the bills or build time look into it, but way all your options. There will be no movement at this company (Maybe it will change but not in the near future). We have some poor FO's that are going on their 4th year and they still make less then our FA's. Management does not see the forest for the trees. Yet the crews still shine and are always number 1 with the owners.
If someone is looking at Flexjet for a career, look elsewhere. If you need something to pay the bills or build time look into it, but way all your options. There will be no movement at this company (Maybe it will change but not in the near future). We have some poor FO's that are going on their 4th year and they still make less then our FA's. Management does not see the forest for the trees. Yet the crews still shine and are always number 1 with the owners.
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The flying is great!!
The crews are great with 1 or 2 exceptions!
The company could be if management didnt have that treat the pilots like cr@p attitude. They dont ask the pilots they tell!! Then they make it sound like they have done such a great job. HAHA!! They brag how they havent downgraded anyone and they feel as though they accomplished something. Well they have. They have pi55ed off just about every pilot here even most of the koolaid drinker's. Those of us that are SR are'nt affected. The 20 captains that keep their pay are the ones to be thankful. None of the FO's have any loyalty to Flexjet and I cannot blame them. This is the ONLY frac to furlough(2 times).
The crews are great with 1 or 2 exceptions!
The company could be if management didnt have that treat the pilots like cr@p attitude. They dont ask the pilots they tell!! Then they make it sound like they have done such a great job. HAHA!! They brag how they havent downgraded anyone and they feel as though they accomplished something. Well they have. They have pi55ed off just about every pilot here even most of the koolaid drinker's. Those of us that are SR are'nt affected. The 20 captains that keep their pay are the ones to be thankful. None of the FO's have any loyalty to Flexjet and I cannot blame them. This is the ONLY frac to furlough(2 times).
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I am not sure where the new hires have been or will be placed. I am sure that Flexjet WILL slap the poor FO's in the face again and hire into the 604 and 300. Flexjet does not care about the FO's. The only reason they are here is because they are required. If they could MEL the occupation of the right seat they would, to make their bottom line "look better". If you think that sitting as an FO in the challengers would be better think again. Beside being under paid for that equipment, there is a good deal of animosity for the JR FO's in those seats. However, you can get the Challenger type and leave for a better job like most have.
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