Flexjet side deal mediation attempt?

[el raton]

It's not the union's fault, it'sKR fault. RTA/Options had over 1000 pilots at one point. We are so lucky that only 25 guys got the raw deal this time. KR is all about division and his race to the bottom AGAIN. There are a lot of worse sob stories out there. Sitting the fence is one thing,working against other pilots is another. We need everyone's help,or we will ALL pay the price again.

Cabbie, I could accuse you of working against other pilots too. I won't stoop that low.

 

[1folinepilot]

I'm not going anywhere. I need this job. That is until something better comes along.

It's a d/ck move what the union did and is doing to the pilots at Flex. Our junior captains will end up being bumped out of their seats. After that, Holmes, It will take years for us just to regain back what we lost, thanks to the union.

Please, tell me, why would we support such a losing proposition? It will take years to recoup the financial loss. What's the benefit? We're still going to have 12-14hr duty days. We're still going to work 190+ days a year. We're still going to have the same crappy health care, etc.

The union is a losing proposition, and I will work hard to help decertify. It sounds like the union leadership isn't that worried about decertification so maybe you shouldn't be worried either. However, we're gonna give it a helluva shot.



Btw, I'm not an IGM, I'm trying to just save what I have. Can you fault me? We have different views. We can still all be friends.

Dude, with your back stabbing self serving attitude you and I will never be friends.

Even in your post that im replying to you are spreading Lies and fud. The Union is not kicking anybody out of their seats or demoting anybody. Even the junior Flex guys that are junior by 6 to 8 years of the Options guys that are out on furlough not making a dime. But you are only worried about yourself

Ricci is purposly pitting as many people against each other in his insane delusional quest to control the pilots and you are sucking into his plan.

The Union is not the problem, you are the problem

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Yes I do try to hold certain other pilots back. KR has already cost me several 100k, and now the company is using certain pilots as pawns to divide the group. How did Netjets become so successful? UNITY.

 

[John MClain]

I'm gonna stick around. At least long enough to help the Flex side with decertification.

Decertification?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop regurgitating what you are reading on Yammer, posted by those who also don't know what they are talking about. Decertification can't and won't happen.

On second thought, keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

"Our junior captains will end up being bumped out of their seats."

While it is true that if pilots bump down they may be moved to another airframe BUT you do NOT lose your captain status. That actually was a KR thing during negotiations. That is how our existing contract works at FO. The only way to lose your captain status is if there are furloughs. Then if one is furloughed they can be brought back as an sic. So if your retain your captain status you retain your captain pay which I assume is the crux of the issue. I will say I have no idea what the abitrator will say in regards to this issue. The FAR MORE PRESSING ISSUE is that KR wants all Red Lable crews to be IMMUNE to furloughs!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully the arbitrator sees through this whole charade and identifies it for what it is! UNION BUSTING!!

BTW just the simple fact that the company prohibits the Fo pilots from participating on yammer is MORE than enough to overturn any decertification vote should it ever even happen. In a documented case, even a person using a company copy machine for the purpose of organizing a decertification vote was enough for the NMB to find fault and company collusion enough to overturn it.

 

[shanes123]

Keep yammer. It's like the RL and IRL the decent pilots don't want to fly with those A Holes

 

[jetwash]

Decertification?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop regurgitating what you are reading on Yammer, posted by those who also don't know what they are talking about. Decertification can't and won't happen.

On second thought, keep doing what you're doing.

You are exactly right.

I can't believe how many pilots on the Flex side of the house think that Kenn can call for a decertification vote in December.

They have no idea of who can call for a vote and what is involved to even get to that stage. They are living in a dream world.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Kenn sure likes to waste money.

 

[Honorstudent]

It is Managment and gullible Flex minions that are spreading the word of decert on Yammer, and unless I'm mistaken that is a Huge RLA violation for KR or any of his managers like RH or JW to get involved in that process. Another violation would be the fact that the Flight Options Pilots do not have access to Yammer, which has become a Union bashing web site, with all of the Onesky managements lies being propagated by the usuall antiunion suspects. There is no doubt that KR is attempting to stack the numbers in his favor if there ever was any kind of a vote, hopefully the MCBA at the end of July will calm enough FLEX Pilots that FW MR and others will open there eye's as to what is actually going on. I read the out and out lies spewed forth on Yammer and it is sickening.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Ok so let's get to the heart of the issue: MONEY! Let's just admit that and help you see that is a ridiculous concern. The only people who stand to have a worse W2 next year are probably Red Label Captains who are practically stealing it anyway. (You know the ones who claim they deserve the extra money for their sacrifices in one breath and then in the next rave how their quality of life is dramatically improved as a result of Red Label in the next.)

El Raton is that what you at worried about regarding junior captains too? Because there seems to be enough evidence that financially they won't be harmed except in the event of a furlough which a union actually helps prevent. If anything they will get to enjoy the benefits of pay stability offered to them via a CBA that Ricci himself would NEVER give to them unless there was a sinister agenda attached to it.

I am curious though. I would hardly consider you a junior Captain. 6 ways to Sunday your status as a CL30 Captain is all but guaranteed from here to eternity. Even with seniority based upgrades to International you are just simply too old to expect to get them in time for you to care. Sorry, but actually dude I hope you and I both aren't still flying in 20 years. If so we have royally ********************ed up our retirement goals. But I digress.

Now, regarding your forever CL30 Captain status, given the rough demographics of the Flexjet-only seniority list that was going to remain true whether or not Flexjet was ever sold. So in essence you are no worse off now under the Union's plan, SLI or not, then you were before. Even if you made it to the 604 your pay doesn't change, just your destination. Given the sh!tstorm of crazy Europe is becoming, I say staying far away from that might be a blessing in disguise.

However many pilots at OneSky who have actually been employed far longer than you or I are in fact worse off then before every time Ricci has his way. Out of seniority upgrades, stagnant growth, furloughs, RIFs you name it. That is certainly true for old RTA folk, old Options folks and now even for high seniority Flex folks who have been passed over for slots that should be their's for the taking.

Yet here you sit, a part of the #2 fractional with airframes on order, supposedly a flush sales projection and a pilot's Union protecting your right to fair seniority based upgrades, job protections, better work rules and the first raise we've seen in years and you think this is all doom and gloom you want to work hard to decertify, as if that were even possible? I don't get it.

Put down the Kool Aid friend. Reality is staring you in the face and you are just still too damned angry to take gulp of clear water. I get you're pissed. Frankly there's a small part of me that is pissed to we are not still Flexjet too but dude that is wasted heartache. Your wallet and your ego are not going to be harmed. Ricci's will be and in the end that's why he wants us at each other's throats. Don't fall for the FUD.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

FUD. 6 pilots have moved on in the last 30 days. The options side is getting worked so hard, pilots are leaving for more pay and less work. RH is in Dallas spewing his FUD and saying the Options pilots are lazy. RH is a manure spreader Scheduling is no longer honoring a 12 hour duty day after 3 consecutive days of 14 hours. I want to know who these lazy pilots are,because I should see them just hanging out at the FBOs. They are forcing us to call fatigue because they are no longer honoring their "guidlines"..

 

[el raton]

Imissmypilot...who told you I'm in the Challenger? I'm not.

How is it fair that fo's at flops are taking our chance of going there away? We got screwed, and we're gonna get it worse after the mcba. Especially if Ken is as bad of a businessman as the union says he is.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

So what you are saying is that you want to decertify so red label pilots can all stay safe even though many of them could not hold the position that they are in (in case of a furlough). Or decertify so KR could just get rid of all of the pilots in a single fleet if he so chooses because it would make financial sense for him to reduce training costs? Then who gets screwed? You are being very short sighted when it comes to the big picture!!!!! KR is all about money and keeping as much of it as he can.

 

[el raton]

So what you are saying is that you want to decertify so red label pilots can all stay safe even though many of them could not hold the position that they are in (in case of a furlough). Or decertify so KR could just get rid of all of the pilots in a single fleet if he so chooses because it would make financial sense for him to reduce training costs? Then who gets screwed? You are being very short sighted when it comes to the big picture!!!!! KR is all about money and keeping as much of it as he can.

I'm right where my seniority a flexjet should be. The onesky list does put me and every pilot around me in a possible danger of being bumped. Everything about this screams "fair", but "fair" only for Flops pilots and the top of the seniority list at Flexjet.

Why should I be willing to sacrifice what I have for something I don't believe in when I have other options that are better? Since the IBT was voted in nothing good has happened at Flex. Trust me, I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

I understand what you are saying in regards to the sli. What I am saying is are you better off with all of the.red label pilots getting a pass if there is another furlough or will YOU be in danger of being furloughed if KR has his way of furloughing out of seniority.