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flexjet problem at IAD
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Lumber Yak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
Flexlrpilot357,
I am surprised you are able to pass your medical with that blow-up. Watch out - you may bust an "o-ring"...
Not to belabor the point much more, but I know what I saw regarding the blown tire - I saw the line people picking up the tire shards off the runway. Were you there? I didn't think so. Did you hear what the Lear 60 Captain had to say about maintenance issues at Flexjet (quite negative)? I didn't think so. Are you claiming that FO's are moving up to Captain positions in less than 18-24 months? I didn't think so. Did you say that Flexjet management has not been a revolving door? I didn't think so. Do you see huge groups of pilots rushing from NJA or Flight Options to Flexjet? Nope. Did you say Flexjet morale is positive like Netjets morale at this moment? Nope.
You may not believe it, but I know A LOT more about Flexjet than you think. I also know people in the organization (pilots and otherwise).
You don't know me and I don't know you. With your explosive attitude, I am glad. Suffice it to say, that according to actual Flexjet Lear 60 captains I know, Flexjet was a better place to work a few years ago. Let's hope it returns - perhaps anger management classes for certain pilots would help...
I am surprised you are able to pass your medical with that blow-up. Watch out - you may bust an "o-ring"...
Not to belabor the point much more, but I know what I saw regarding the blown tire - I saw the line people picking up the tire shards off the runway. Were you there? I didn't think so. Did you hear what the Lear 60 Captain had to say about maintenance issues at Flexjet (quite negative)? I didn't think so. Are you claiming that FO's are moving up to Captain positions in less than 18-24 months? I didn't think so. Did you say that Flexjet management has not been a revolving door? I didn't think so. Do you see huge groups of pilots rushing from NJA or Flight Options to Flexjet? Nope. Did you say Flexjet morale is positive like Netjets morale at this moment? Nope.
You may not believe it, but I know A LOT more about Flexjet than you think. I also know people in the organization (pilots and otherwise).
You don't know me and I don't know you. With your explosive attitude, I am glad. Suffice it to say, that according to actual Flexjet Lear 60 captains I know, Flexjet was a better place to work a few years ago. Let's hope it returns - perhaps anger management classes for certain pilots would help...
Toploader
472 Cubes
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Posts
- 51
I have been on this forum for a while now, and have enjoyed it immensely.
That said, as a NJA Ultra PIC I am embarassed by some of these wacko "pro-nja" posts. Please don't judge all NJA pilots by some of these loudmouth juviniles.
We're all in the same boat, lets paddle in the same direction.
Flame away,
Toploader
That said, as a NJA Ultra PIC I am embarassed by some of these wacko "pro-nja" posts. Please don't judge all NJA pilots by some of these loudmouth juviniles.
We're all in the same boat, lets paddle in the same direction.
Flame away,
Toploader
Slim177
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Posts
- 25
The contract and ANY rumors you hear are just that RUMORS!
I do believe we will get a minimum of 80%-100% raise. It is totally inline with Mr. Buffetts style. He has gotten a good value out of us and understands the economic realities of this contract. He wants to hire the best and keep the pilots he has. That equates to improved economic and lifestyle issues. I also think he would like a pay scale that no other frac company can afford. Some pilots are all about loyalty, but alot are about the money! A large pay raise would hurt Flex and Flops and Cit Shares recruiting.
I know Mr. Ricci says he will top our raise and I do hope we get a huge raise and then Flops tops it. It just spirals the industry standard upwards.
I believe our commitment to getting more large cabin planes will set us apart. We have more large cabin planes now, and are getting alot in the near future. I think that is where the long term salary benefits will come from for all the current pilots at NJA.
I do believe we will get a minimum of 80%-100% raise. It is totally inline with Mr. Buffetts style. He has gotten a good value out of us and understands the economic realities of this contract. He wants to hire the best and keep the pilots he has. That equates to improved economic and lifestyle issues. I also think he would like a pay scale that no other frac company can afford. Some pilots are all about loyalty, but alot are about the money! A large pay raise would hurt Flex and Flops and Cit Shares recruiting.
I know Mr. Ricci says he will top our raise and I do hope we get a huge raise and then Flops tops it. It just spirals the industry standard upwards.
I believe our commitment to getting more large cabin planes will set us apart. We have more large cabin planes now, and are getting alot in the near future. I think that is where the long term salary benefits will come from for all the current pilots at NJA.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
I was fascinated by this:
Does this mean that flexjets has an ab-initio training program? As someone said above, I don't think so. The skill of the pilot in controlling the aircraft with the blown tire goes back to the many hours of experience he acquired long before he met the minimums for flex. Certainly, recurrent training is a contibuting factor in a pilot's success, but it's more likely that most of what made the pilot good was learned before the flex application was filled out. And yes, Bombardier DOES have great instructors.
Clearly, Warren Buffet learned a long time ago what needs to happen to make money, and he is adept at doing it. If I were to look into my crystal ball, in five years Netjets will dominate the fractional market, and by a huge margin.
Now, does anyone know what was wrong with the plane at Dulles?
Does this mean that flexjets has an ab-initio training program? As someone said above, I don't think so. The skill of the pilot in controlling the aircraft with the blown tire goes back to the many hours of experience he acquired long before he met the minimums for flex. Certainly, recurrent training is a contibuting factor in a pilot's success, but it's more likely that most of what made the pilot good was learned before the flex application was filled out. And yes, Bombardier DOES have great instructors.
Clearly, Warren Buffet learned a long time ago what needs to happen to make money, and he is adept at doing it. If I were to look into my crystal ball, in five years Netjets will dominate the fractional market, and by a huge margin.
Now, does anyone know what was wrong with the plane at Dulles?
capt_zman said:
Maybe you should research Mr. Buffett a little better! He bought this company for less than 1 Billion. NJA now has net liquid assets of over 4.8 Billion. That's 480% of a ROI, as it stands now. In 24 months from now it will be over 600% ROI if NJA liquidated everything....hum......
Mr. Buffett has "publicly" stated that an 80-100% pay raise for the pilots of NJA was "expected" and that was over 5 months ago.
If you are, as you claim, a BRKA shareholder you would know that Mr. Buffett promotes the program day and night. Do you think he would do so if it "[went] against Mr. Buffets track record?" Mr. Buffets' track record is to hold on to companies with long-term viability (i.e. he recently dumped Disney). NJA is a long-term company.
Anyone who has a degree, or some knowledge of: Mathematics, Economics and/or Business knows that NJA Inc. is a cash cow for BRKA (B) and the best is yet to come.
capt_zman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 462
Why don't you lighten up LR45JI?
Here's a quote right from his annual report, "Our NetJets fractional ownership program sold a record number of planes last year and also showed a gain of 21.9% in service income from management fees and hourly charges. Nevertheless, it operated at a small loss, versus a small profit in 2000. We made a little money in the U.S., but these earnings were more than offset by European losses. Measured by the value of our customers' planes, NetJets accounts for about half of the industry. We believe the other participants, in aggregate, lost significant money."
"NetJets experienced a spurt in new orders shortly after Sept 11th, but its sales pace has since returned to normal. Per-customer usage declined somewhat during the year, probably because of the recession."
With these statements in mind, I'll ask the same question again without being indignant, do you really believe you're going to see a 100% pay increase? Think about this for a minute. By the way, looking at the above quotes directly from the horses mouth, how exactly is NetJets a cash cow for Berkshire??????
Here's another quote out of the same annual report. "Executive Jet's results in 2001 and 2000 reflect operating losses related to expansion in Europe as well as significantly higher operating costs incurred to insure that a premier level of safety, security and service is maintained."
Maybe you think you will get a 50-100% increase in pay, but how would doubling the labor costs offset other costs to put NJA in the black??
I think you may have to break out your college economics book and look up ROI, because your numbers literally make no sense at all. How do you take the sum of the retail costs of the assets and subtract the purchase price and come up with the ROI??? What about incurred expenses and liabilities? Also, due to the scale of NJA and it's 4.8 billion in list price assets, who would actually pay this amount if they had to liquidate?
And yes, you are correct, he promotes NJA just like all his other companies under the Berkshire veil. What else would he do? His track record speaks for itself, making money, not losing it. Nice comparison with Disney, they won't be around very long, will they.
And one more quote for you, "As of Dec 31, 2001, Berkshire's borrowings under investment agreements and other debt, excluding finance businesses, included commercial paper and other short-term borrowing totaling 1.8 billion. Most of these borrowings were by Executive Jet and Shaw for operating needs."
Hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to look at the dot com rise and fall and see if you see any similarities with fractional ownership.
Amazing how this board brings out the worst in people.
Here's a quote right from his annual report, "Our NetJets fractional ownership program sold a record number of planes last year and also showed a gain of 21.9% in service income from management fees and hourly charges. Nevertheless, it operated at a small loss, versus a small profit in 2000. We made a little money in the U.S., but these earnings were more than offset by European losses. Measured by the value of our customers' planes, NetJets accounts for about half of the industry. We believe the other participants, in aggregate, lost significant money."
"NetJets experienced a spurt in new orders shortly after Sept 11th, but its sales pace has since returned to normal. Per-customer usage declined somewhat during the year, probably because of the recession."
With these statements in mind, I'll ask the same question again without being indignant, do you really believe you're going to see a 100% pay increase? Think about this for a minute. By the way, looking at the above quotes directly from the horses mouth, how exactly is NetJets a cash cow for Berkshire??????
Here's another quote out of the same annual report. "Executive Jet's results in 2001 and 2000 reflect operating losses related to expansion in Europe as well as significantly higher operating costs incurred to insure that a premier level of safety, security and service is maintained."
Maybe you think you will get a 50-100% increase in pay, but how would doubling the labor costs offset other costs to put NJA in the black??
I think you may have to break out your college economics book and look up ROI, because your numbers literally make no sense at all. How do you take the sum of the retail costs of the assets and subtract the purchase price and come up with the ROI??? What about incurred expenses and liabilities? Also, due to the scale of NJA and it's 4.8 billion in list price assets, who would actually pay this amount if they had to liquidate?
And yes, you are correct, he promotes NJA just like all his other companies under the Berkshire veil. What else would he do? His track record speaks for itself, making money, not losing it. Nice comparison with Disney, they won't be around very long, will they.
And one more quote for you, "As of Dec 31, 2001, Berkshire's borrowings under investment agreements and other debt, excluding finance businesses, included commercial paper and other short-term borrowing totaling 1.8 billion. Most of these borrowings were by Executive Jet and Shaw for operating needs."
Hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to look at the dot com rise and fall and see if you see any similarities with fractional ownership.
Amazing how this board brings out the worst in people.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
capt_zman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 462
X/2000 driver
Member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2002
- Posts
- 8
Crucianpilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Posts
- 170
Thankful
It is just amazing that this constant banter back and forth about whose company is better just seems to continue and continue. I have been one of the 8000+ ex airline pilots on the street for the last 10 mos waiting for that first call. I finally got one and was able to get on with flexjet. Now, I can sleep better knowing that I wont have to sell my house or lapse on my bill paying. I appreciate the fact that I am once again employed, since another group of very qualified furloughees are about to hit the street. I suggest those of us who are working should be thankful that we can provide for ourselves and our families, instead of worrying about who makes more money where, and whose company is better, etc. I am sure we are all tired of reading about it.
Good luck to all in their pursuits, may we all get back to work soon.
It is just amazing that this constant banter back and forth about whose company is better just seems to continue and continue. I have been one of the 8000+ ex airline pilots on the street for the last 10 mos waiting for that first call. I finally got one and was able to get on with flexjet. Now, I can sleep better knowing that I wont have to sell my house or lapse on my bill paying. I appreciate the fact that I am once again employed, since another group of very qualified furloughees are about to hit the street. I suggest those of us who are working should be thankful that we can provide for ourselves and our families, instead of worrying about who makes more money where, and whose company is better, etc. I am sure we are all tired of reading about it.
Good luck to all in their pursuits, may we all get back to work soon.
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