flexjet problem at IAD

[Slim177]

The contract and ANY rumors you hear are just that RUMORS!

I do believe we will get a minimum of 80%-100% raise. It is totally inline with Mr. Buffetts style. He has gotten a good value out of us and understands the economic realities of this contract. He wants to hire the best and keep the pilots he has. That equates to improved economic and lifestyle issues. I also think he would like a pay scale that no other frac company can afford. Some pilots are all about loyalty, but alot are about the money! A large pay raise would hurt Flex and Flops and Cit Shares recruiting.
I know Mr. Ricci says he will top our raise and I do hope we get a huge raise and then Flops tops it. It just spirals the industry standard upwards.
I believe our commitment to getting more large cabin planes will set us apart. We have more large cabin planes now, and are getting alot in the near future. I think that is where the long term salary benefits will come from for all the current pilots at NJA.

 

[Timebuilder]

I was fascinated by this:

And suddenly our pilots have gone from lacking in or having problematic training to being "excellent". Well, training makes the pilot, right? I'll pass the compliment on to our training center in Dallas. I'm sure one of the practice aborts performed every 6 months contributed to the handling of this situation. Our instructors are the finest in the industry.

Does this mean that flexjets has an ab-initio training program? As someone said above, I don't think so. The skill of the pilot in controlling the aircraft with the blown tire goes back to the many hours of experience he acquired long before he met the minimums for flex. Certainly, recurrent training is a contibuting factor in a pilot's success, but it's more likely that most of what made the pilot good was learned before the flex application was filled out. And yes, Bombardier DOES have great instructors.

Clearly, Warren Buffet learned a long time ago what needs to happen to make money, and he is adept at doing it. If I were to look into my crystal ball, in five years Netjets will dominate the fractional market, and by a huge margin.

Now, does anyone know what was wrong with the plane at Dulles?

 

[LR45JI]

Just a quick question for those in the know. Do the NJA pilots really believe they are going to get a 50-100% raise?

Being a loyal BRKA shareholder for many years, doesn't that go against Mr. Buffetts track record?

Just wondering.

Maybe you should research Mr. Buffett a little better! He bought this company for less than 1 Billion. NJA now has net liquid assets of over 4.8 Billion. That's 480% of a ROI, as it stands now. In 24 months from now it will be over 600% ROI if NJA liquidated everything....hum......

Mr. Buffett has "publicly" stated that an 80-100% pay raise for the pilots of NJA was "expected" and that was over 5 months ago.

If you are, as you claim, a BRKA shareholder you would know that Mr. Buffett promotes the program day and night. Do you think he would do so if it "[went] against Mr. Buffets track record?" Mr. Buffets' track record is to hold on to companies with long-term viability (i.e. he recently dumped Disney). NJA is a long-term company.

Anyone who has a degree, or some knowledge of: Mathematics, Economics and/or Business knows that NJA Inc. is a cash cow for BRKA (B) and the best is yet to come.

 

[capt_zman]

Why don't you lighten up LR45JI?

Here's a quote right from his annual report, "Our NetJets fractional ownership program sold a record number of planes last year and also showed a gain of 21.9% in service income from management fees and hourly charges. Nevertheless, it operated at a small loss, versus a small profit in 2000. We made a little money in the U.S., but these earnings were more than offset by European losses. Measured by the value of our customers' planes, NetJets accounts for about half of the industry. We believe the other participants, in aggregate, lost significant money."

"NetJets experienced a spurt in new orders shortly after Sept 11th, but its sales pace has since returned to normal. Per-customer usage declined somewhat during the year, probably because of the recession."

With these statements in mind, I'll ask the same question again without being indignant, do you really believe you're going to see a 100% pay increase? Think about this for a minute. By the way, looking at the above quotes directly from the horses mouth, how exactly is NetJets a cash cow for Berkshire??????

Here's another quote out of the same annual report. "Executive Jet's results in 2001 and 2000 reflect operating losses related to expansion in Europe as well as significantly higher operating costs incurred to insure that a premier level of safety, security and service is maintained."

Maybe you think you will get a 50-100% increase in pay, but how would doubling the labor costs offset other costs to put NJA in the black??

I think you may have to break out your college economics book and look up ROI, because your numbers literally make no sense at all. How do you take the sum of the retail costs of the assets and subtract the purchase price and come up with the ROI??? What about incurred expenses and liabilities? Also, due to the scale of NJA and it's 4.8 billion in list price assets, who would actually pay this amount if they had to liquidate?

And yes, you are correct, he promotes NJA just like all his other companies under the Berkshire veil. What else would he do? His track record speaks for itself, making money, not losing it. Nice comparison with Disney, they won't be around very long, will they.

And one more quote for you, "As of Dec 31, 2001, Berkshire's borrowings under investment agreements and other debt, excluding finance businesses, included commercial paper and other short-term borrowing totaling 1.8 billion. Most of these borrowings were by Executive Jet and Shaw for operating needs."

Hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to look at the dot com rise and fall and see if you see any similarities with fractional ownership.

Amazing how this board brings out the worst in people.

 

[Timebuilder]

Nice comparison with Disney, they won't be around very long, will they.

Since the departure of the creative talent to Dreamworks, Disney is indeed in serious trouble. Good move on Warren's part to dump his interest.

I think Netjets is going to exceed expectations. Not by Christmas, or even spring. But, they will.

 

[LR45JI]

Capt Z Man,

I am "lightened up"!

I simply don't like people coming in and trying to bash in an area that they aren't involved. I'm not going to get involved in a "mud-slinging" contest with you.

I do my job, happily, and expect you to do the same.

Thanks for your comments.

Respectfully

 

[capt_zman]

I don't believe that I was bashing anyone. It was a simple question pertaining to NJA. I wanted to know what the perception is regarding the contract, that's all.

Also, I am involved. My company owns a share in an Ultra. Mr. Bartone in Woodbridge is a good friend.

 

[X/2000 driver]

I haven't visited the forum in awhile and I can see its the same old stuff; "We're better than you and our contracts are better than yours," blah, blah, blah! We should all just be glad that we're still employed in these troubled times.

 

[Crucianpilot]

Thankful

It is just amazing that this constant banter back and forth about whose company is better just seems to continue and continue. I have been one of the 8000+ ex airline pilots on the street for the last 10 mos waiting for that first call. I finally got one and was able to get on with flexjet. Now, I can sleep better knowing that I wont have to sell my house or lapse on my bill paying. I appreciate the fact that I am once again employed, since another group of very qualified furloughees are about to hit the street. I suggest those of us who are working should be thankful that we can provide for ourselves and our families, instead of worrying about who makes more money where, and whose company is better, etc. I am sure we are all tired of reading about it.

Good luck to all in their pursuits, may we all get back to work soon.

 

[750driver]

Re: Falconhead

Dude, go back to corporate where there is....

no stability....

and your principal could turn around one morning and say...i dont need these aircraft anymore.... buh bye now.

Brilliant response.... here is one for you:

 

[Timebuilder]

Hey, Turbine-

That data block looks like it represents a diverse and accomplished career, one that many would like to attain. Are you saying that is is self-aggrandizing to include all that you accomplish?

Many of your posts contain a good deal of sarcasm directed at other members. Does this represent how you normally conduct yourself, or do you make an exception just for us here on the board?

Maybe it's just me, but your comments have a hollow ring to them, like the humor is somehow "forced". Are you okay?

 

[Dep676]

He just like the little kid that gets mad. Then all he has to say is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Turbine get a life. Are you a little jealous of all the Ratings that Falcon Capt has? Is your profile actually true or are you just some snot nose kid with a computer?????????

 

[banned username 2]

Hey Turbinehead...

Waaaa...

I'll send you a box of tissues....

 

[Country Wild]

Rookie

Flexlrpilot357, it sounds to me like this is your first job and that you are an overly defensive new hire. Relax, you will always find some type of competition in avaition amongst competeing companies. You need not to take it personally. They guy just made a statement about an observation he saw. I don't think it was aimed at you or was written so that he would get such a response from you. As you get older and have been around this industry you will find that some people just state questions that might be offensive, not meaning to be. So relax, it was just an observation. Give yourseld a few years a Flex Jet and you too will have your own gripes.

Country Wild

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Interesting theory, country wild, but you're well off the mark. Flexjet is my 5th jet job, and I've been here long enough to be a captain. I have plenty of gripes about the company, and have had no problem admitting them, but I'm also thankful that I'm here.

Lumber Yak: sorry you misread my post as "explosive". I know it's hard to convey the right spirit at times through this medium. The truth is, I know a lot more about Flexjet than you think you do, no matter how many people you think you know here, and I'm not going to let uninformed bashing or simple incorrect "knowledge" go by unchallenged. that's it. No harm or offense intended.

Timebuilder, there's nothing like good recurrent training (such as that received at the Bombardier training center in Dallas) to keep your skills sharp. That said, human factors are a cause of accidents everywhere in the world. Heaven forbid we become complacent.

Regarding Flexjet MX, I'll say this, speaking from firsthand experience: during my last rotation, my dealings with our maintenance were nothing but first rate. I'd let my mom fly with us, I believe that says enough.

 

[FL450]

Being an NJA pilot, I believe we are in an excellent position for a minimum 100% raise. This belief is also shared by the majority of NJA pilots who understand the condition NJA is really in and where we are going. First, some history. The main reason we did not go public in 98 was because to do so would interfere with our aggressive growth plan. Shareholders want $$, and there was a good chance aggressive growth would prohibit profit for several years. Enter WB. The plan was to expand and grow as necessary for 5 years, regardless of profit or loss. Unlimited capital to do what needed to be done. This comes from RTS.

NJA makes money. It is NJ Europe that looses money, at least for now while it is in the aggressive growth phase. Again, part of the plan from the beginning. The books cover that fact and make it seem like there is no profit, but we at NJA do not buy into that. We are NJA, not NJI, not NJ Europe, or EJM. As such, we bargain based on the NJA operation and our worth as NJA pilots. Remember that fact when you use the term "Netjets."

Also remember that with growing pains come inefficiencies, some rather costly, that have absolutely nothing to do with pilot's responsibility. It is management's lack of efficiency, not ours. Our value is not based on management's ability to manage, nor will we accept that downfall as a reason to sell ourselves short. We've been there and done that.

As a group, we do not fall for the "we're not profitable" argument, nor the "look what a huge contract did to United," or the Disney comments, or whatever other negative is tossed our way on this and other message boards. Opinions are just that, as is mine. But it is troubling to see pilots ripping into other pilots who are striving for the same goals. Salary, quality of life, solid benefits and retirement are in ALL of our best interests as pilots. When one pilot group succeeds, it raises the bar for all others. Personally, I'd be rooting for us!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The contract is coming!!
The contract is coming!!
Then we will all be rich!!

dear god help us....................

 

[Jetz]

NJA

I am not a Net Jets pilot, but if I were, I would be less concerned about the details of the contract and more concerned about the overcapacity at your company.

Seems that NJA and FO are in a race of who can get bigger and who can keep up...resulting in what would appear to be a growth at all costs strategy. It certainly is a big gamble... I hope it pays off for both FO and NJA.

Must be nice to have deep pockets.

 

[irapilot]

OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING

OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING! ALL FRACTIONALS ARE EVIL!

Ok, this was totally tonque in cheek - but I am sure lots of people will be upset - sorry

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 326QS Make/Model: C560 Description: 560 Citation 5/5 Ultra (UC-35.
Date: 09/20/2002 Time: 2036

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
City: KALSPELL State: MT Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT LOST GEAR DOOR ON RWY 20 ON DEPARTURE, ACFT RETURNED TO LAND,
KALISPELL, MT

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: Y
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: Y
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: UNK

OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Take-off Operation: Air Carrier

Departed: UNK Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: UNK Flt Plan: UNK Wx Briefing: U
Last Radio Cont: UNK
Last Clearance: UNK

FAA FSDO: HELENA, MT (NM05) Entry date: 09/23/2002

 

[Toploader]

What a bunch of imbiciles we must all look like to someone reading this thread for the first time.

Jesus, people, are we going to dig up all accidents/incidents at all fracs and have an all out mud-slinging contest?

This board has really gone downhill.