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flexjet problem at IAD
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Turbinehead
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- Jul 15, 2002
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- 174
banned username 2
Banned User
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Lumber Yak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
Turbinehead,
A little harsh, don't you think? I think the original question posed was a legit question... I've seen countless Flexjet aircraft broken down all over the country. And I have 3-4 friends who fly Lear 60s and Lear 45s for Flexjet who complain about maintenance and training issues. So, a question like the one posed is completely appropriate - he saw a broken aircraft and was inquiring about it... You need to lighten up!
A little harsh, don't you think? I think the original question posed was a legit question... I've seen countless Flexjet aircraft broken down all over the country. And I have 3-4 friends who fly Lear 60s and Lear 45s for Flexjet who complain about maintenance and training issues. So, a question like the one posed is completely appropriate - he saw a broken aircraft and was inquiring about it... You need to lighten up!
flexlrpilot357
Archbishop of Slack
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2002
- Posts
- 180
flexjet mx
Lumber yak:
What do you mean you've seen broken-down Flexjet airplanes all over the country? Do you mean to say that we have broken, burned-out airframes just rotting at airports all over the U.S., towed onto disused ramps, missing engines, control surfaces, and wheels, just waiting to be scavenged for scrap aluminum?
Or have you just seen some flexjet airplanes in maintenance?
So what if you've seen our airplanes in mx? How did you know they were broken down? Did you look at the mx log books? Check the MEL? Talk to the mechanics working on them? Talk to the pilots?
I doubt it. My point is, it sounds like you really don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
If you have, in fact, ever seen a Flexjet airplane in mx somewhere, how do you know it wasn't scheduled mx? How do you know it wasn't a weekly service check? Flexjet uses mx providers in serveral locations around the country.
So, do Flexjet airplanes ever "break"? As a matter of fact, Flexjet airplanes do break, as all airplanes do. Big deal. We have excellent maintenance AND training (as the FAA, NASA, and several aviation auditing firms will attest).
And for your "friends" who complain about mx and training issues... well, whatever. No response to such vague statements is necessary. What was wrong, the instructor have bad breath? Is training too long? Did he fail a checkride?
Lumber yak:
What do you mean you've seen broken-down Flexjet airplanes all over the country? Do you mean to say that we have broken, burned-out airframes just rotting at airports all over the U.S., towed onto disused ramps, missing engines, control surfaces, and wheels, just waiting to be scavenged for scrap aluminum?
Or have you just seen some flexjet airplanes in maintenance?
So what if you've seen our airplanes in mx? How did you know they were broken down? Did you look at the mx log books? Check the MEL? Talk to the mechanics working on them? Talk to the pilots?
I doubt it. My point is, it sounds like you really don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
If you have, in fact, ever seen a Flexjet airplane in mx somewhere, how do you know it wasn't scheduled mx? How do you know it wasn't a weekly service check? Flexjet uses mx providers in serveral locations around the country.
So, do Flexjet airplanes ever "break"? As a matter of fact, Flexjet airplanes do break, as all airplanes do. Big deal. We have excellent maintenance AND training (as the FAA, NASA, and several aviation auditing firms will attest).
And for your "friends" who complain about mx and training issues... well, whatever. No response to such vague statements is necessary. What was wrong, the instructor have bad breath? Is training too long? Did he fail a checkride?
Lumber Yak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
Flexlrpilot357,
A bit stressed? Could that be because your company has gone down hill and is no longer seen as a "major" frax competitor? No movement in your seniority - some FOs pushing the 18 month mark... Morale in the tubes. Concern about the viability of the Global Express program with not many shares sold. Do these points sound familiar? I have my sources - I personally don't know one Flexjet pilot who DOES NOT want to leave and jump to either Netjets or the airlines whenever they are viable again. So don't blast me because you don't know me - or who I know at your outfit.
As for broken airplanes, I actually witnessed one of your shiney Lear 60s blow a tire on takeoff role at Scottsdale a while back. I give the excellent pilot credit for getting the airplane under control. Perhaps you are right that the statment "all over the country" is a bit extreme. I take that back.
In any case, I was addressing Turbinehead - not a good representative for your company...
A bit stressed? Could that be because your company has gone down hill and is no longer seen as a "major" frax competitor? No movement in your seniority - some FOs pushing the 18 month mark... Morale in the tubes. Concern about the viability of the Global Express program with not many shares sold. Do these points sound familiar? I have my sources - I personally don't know one Flexjet pilot who DOES NOT want to leave and jump to either Netjets or the airlines whenever they are viable again. So don't blast me because you don't know me - or who I know at your outfit.
As for broken airplanes, I actually witnessed one of your shiney Lear 60s blow a tire on takeoff role at Scottsdale a while back. I give the excellent pilot credit for getting the airplane under control. Perhaps you are right that the statment "all over the country" is a bit extreme. I take that back.
In any case, I was addressing Turbinehead - not a good representative for your company...
flexlrpilot357
Archbishop of Slack
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2002
- Posts
- 180
Yak
No, I'm not worried at all, thank you. As far as I know, we're the only fractional that is actually profitable. We have been for the entire year. In the business world, that's a very good thing. Ask any major airline if they wish they were profitable.
Your comments show how truly ignorant you are about Flex, and I'm not going to bother correcting you with the truth. I'm only blasting you because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.
Are you saying that a tire blowing is evidence of shoddy maintenance? Interesting theory. Should the tire have been changed before the flight? Ever seen a Flexjet a/c on bad tires? Is a bug on the windshield evidence of poor maintenance too? How bout if I spill a coke? Please tell me about the other broken-down Flexjet airplanes you've seen. I'd really like to know.
Are you even sure that a tire actually blew? Was this even an airplane you were looking at? Maybe it was a delivery van, or your grandma's Plymouth. Tell you what, give me a date, and I'll tell you what happened. I'm sure a report was filed.
And suddenly our pilots have gone from lacking in or having problematic training to being "excellent". Well, training makes the pilot, right? I'll pass the compliment on to our training center in Dallas. I'm sure one of the practice aborts performed every 6 months contributed to the handling of this situation. Our instructors are the finest in the industry.
Do you expect me to take the "other" flexjet pilots you "know" as evidence of the quality of my company? Based on what you've written so far, it's likely you're referring to conversations you've had with your stuffed animal collection.
Keep digging your hole.
No, I'm not worried at all, thank you. As far as I know, we're the only fractional that is actually profitable. We have been for the entire year. In the business world, that's a very good thing. Ask any major airline if they wish they were profitable.
Your comments show how truly ignorant you are about Flex, and I'm not going to bother correcting you with the truth. I'm only blasting you because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.
Are you saying that a tire blowing is evidence of shoddy maintenance? Interesting theory. Should the tire have been changed before the flight? Ever seen a Flexjet a/c on bad tires? Is a bug on the windshield evidence of poor maintenance too? How bout if I spill a coke? Please tell me about the other broken-down Flexjet airplanes you've seen. I'd really like to know.
Are you even sure that a tire actually blew? Was this even an airplane you were looking at? Maybe it was a delivery van, or your grandma's Plymouth. Tell you what, give me a date, and I'll tell you what happened. I'm sure a report was filed.
And suddenly our pilots have gone from lacking in or having problematic training to being "excellent". Well, training makes the pilot, right? I'll pass the compliment on to our training center in Dallas. I'm sure one of the practice aborts performed every 6 months contributed to the handling of this situation. Our instructors are the finest in the industry.
Do you expect me to take the "other" flexjet pilots you "know" as evidence of the quality of my company? Based on what you've written so far, it's likely you're referring to conversations you've had with your stuffed animal collection.
Keep digging your hole.
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ukcats
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 30
Lumber yak, since flexlrpilot357 is such a stickler for accuaracy, allow me to correct your "18 month FO's", statement. In fact, my buddy I was hired with is actually coming up on 36 months. If they are the only profitable fractional, yet still no growth or upgrades, I'll gladly stick with my poor, on the verge of collapse, Berkshire Hathaway company. I kinda like growth and upgrades.
P.S. Did you hear we ordered another 160 airplanes last week. Oh dear, how ever will we pay for them.
P.S. Did you hear we ordered another 160 airplanes last week. Oh dear, how ever will we pay for them.
flexlrpilot357
Archbishop of Slack
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2002
- Posts
- 180
Don't worry, Mr. UK. You'll get yours. Mr. Buffet didn't become a gazillionaire by investing in companies that operate in the red.
Don't believe you're in the red? Read Berkshire's annual report. You're a big money loser. Buying airplanes isn't the same as selling them.
By the way, some homework for you: Compare and contrast NJ's and Flex's Capt. pay and FO pay. You guys have some cheap captains, don't you?
Don't believe you're in the red? Read Berkshire's annual report. You're a big money loser. Buying airplanes isn't the same as selling them.
By the way, some homework for you: Compare and contrast NJ's and Flex's Capt. pay and FO pay. You guys have some cheap captains, don't you?
Slim177
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Posts
- 25
I've been reading this board for awhile and continue to be amazed at the back stabbing among frac pilots. Yes, I do fly for NJA. I have met and spoken with pilots in all the fracs. We are the same people doing the same job! Some like Flex for their benies, some like Flops for their home basing, some like Cit Shares for their pay, some like NJA for their stability and future. We all like our jobs! All planes break! Some, hopefully few, pilots make mistakes! Flex had two 60s run off the runway when the pilots knew they had hydraulic problems before landing on short runways. Options ran two off last year. And yes, Mighty NJA did run off the end of a runway in TX and the plane was totaled, thankfully no injuries.
The economic health of a frac company is never great. The huge profit is from sales, not operations. We at NJA did turn a profit last year and it was offset by a writeoff of NJ Europe. Flex did not make money last year! This year they are reporting a profit while shrinking their fleet and adjusting ops. Just the facts. Flops is a good company and they are handling their merger pretty well considering the complexity of the issues.
I just hope that all frac pilots keep their jobs and we all continue to grow and prosper! Whether your plane is blue, green, black and red, new, or used; there is enough to go around!
The economic health of a frac company is never great. The huge profit is from sales, not operations. We at NJA did turn a profit last year and it was offset by a writeoff of NJ Europe. Flex did not make money last year! This year they are reporting a profit while shrinking their fleet and adjusting ops. Just the facts. Flops is a good company and they are handling their merger pretty well considering the complexity of the issues.
I just hope that all frac pilots keep their jobs and we all continue to grow and prosper! Whether your plane is blue, green, black and red, new, or used; there is enough to go around!
Flexjet
1) Slim177 you are right we are all just pilots and lucky to have good jobs at that.
2) The Flexjet fleet is growing not real fast but it is growing.
3) I have been with Flexjet for over 6 years and have always kind of taken everything with a grain of salt.
4) As far as adjusting OPS, we have we adjusted them from losing money to making money and that is something everyone at Flexjet should be proud of. Doing well in this economy is truly a demonstration of talent. To be honest with you all of the Fractional Providers should be proud of how they are doing.
Maybe pilots are competitive by nature, maybe some don't like to see others happy but in the end we are all fortunate to be doing what we love.
Sincerely
1) Slim177 you are right we are all just pilots and lucky to have good jobs at that.
2) The Flexjet fleet is growing not real fast but it is growing.
3) I have been with Flexjet for over 6 years and have always kind of taken everything with a grain of salt.
4) As far as adjusting OPS, we have we adjusted them from losing money to making money and that is something everyone at Flexjet should be proud of. Doing well in this economy is truly a demonstration of talent. To be honest with you all of the Fractional Providers should be proud of how they are doing.
Maybe pilots are competitive by nature, maybe some don't like to see others happy but in the end we are all fortunate to be doing what we love.
Sincerely
ukcats
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 30
Well, I did the "homework", and I left Flexjet. The math wasn't hard to figure out. I was making $36,000 at Flex as a second year FO. Over here I made $42,000 my first 12 months (No, that is still not good). For the learning impaired, that's a $6,000 a year raise off the bat. I don't like to flaunt a contract that we don't have yet, but the fact is, this will be settled before I would have upgraded at Flex. Whatever the number that is finally settled on is, 50%/65%/100%, etc., it will be much better than if I stayed at Flex. And that isn't even factoring in the intangibles such as working environment, morale, and so on.
Slim is right, we shouldn't be quarreling amongst ourselves, but as a veteran (survivor?) of Flexjet, it bothers me seeing the place portrayed as something it is not.
As for the MX, you are right flexlrpilot357, it could have been anything, inspection, repo to different FBO, who knows. I will say that before I left, I did notice a slacking off in attention to MX. One of my last tours was flown with a plane with 13 open write ups.
Slim is right, we shouldn't be quarreling amongst ourselves, but as a veteran (survivor?) of Flexjet, it bothers me seeing the place portrayed as something it is not.
As for the MX, you are right flexlrpilot357, it could have been anything, inspection, repo to different FBO, who knows. I will say that before I left, I did notice a slacking off in attention to MX. One of my last tours was flown with a plane with 13 open write ups.
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Lumber Yak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
Flexlrpilot357,
I am surprised you are able to pass your medical with that blow-up. Watch out - you may bust an "o-ring"...
Not to belabor the point much more, but I know what I saw regarding the blown tire - I saw the line people picking up the tire shards off the runway. Were you there? I didn't think so. Did you hear what the Lear 60 Captain had to say about maintenance issues at Flexjet (quite negative)? I didn't think so. Are you claiming that FO's are moving up to Captain positions in less than 18-24 months? I didn't think so. Did you say that Flexjet management has not been a revolving door? I didn't think so. Do you see huge groups of pilots rushing from NJA or Flight Options to Flexjet? Nope. Did you say Flexjet morale is positive like Netjets morale at this moment? Nope.
You may not believe it, but I know A LOT more about Flexjet than you think. I also know people in the organization (pilots and otherwise).
You don't know me and I don't know you. With your explosive attitude, I am glad. Suffice it to say, that according to actual Flexjet Lear 60 captains I know, Flexjet was a better place to work a few years ago. Let's hope it returns - perhaps anger management classes for certain pilots would help...
I am surprised you are able to pass your medical with that blow-up. Watch out - you may bust an "o-ring"...
Not to belabor the point much more, but I know what I saw regarding the blown tire - I saw the line people picking up the tire shards off the runway. Were you there? I didn't think so. Did you hear what the Lear 60 Captain had to say about maintenance issues at Flexjet (quite negative)? I didn't think so. Are you claiming that FO's are moving up to Captain positions in less than 18-24 months? I didn't think so. Did you say that Flexjet management has not been a revolving door? I didn't think so. Do you see huge groups of pilots rushing from NJA or Flight Options to Flexjet? Nope. Did you say Flexjet morale is positive like Netjets morale at this moment? Nope.
You may not believe it, but I know A LOT more about Flexjet than you think. I also know people in the organization (pilots and otherwise).
You don't know me and I don't know you. With your explosive attitude, I am glad. Suffice it to say, that according to actual Flexjet Lear 60 captains I know, Flexjet was a better place to work a few years ago. Let's hope it returns - perhaps anger management classes for certain pilots would help...
Toploader
472 Cubes
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Posts
- 51
I have been on this forum for a while now, and have enjoyed it immensely.
That said, as a NJA Ultra PIC I am embarassed by some of these wacko "pro-nja" posts. Please don't judge all NJA pilots by some of these loudmouth juviniles.
We're all in the same boat, lets paddle in the same direction.
Flame away,
Toploader
That said, as a NJA Ultra PIC I am embarassed by some of these wacko "pro-nja" posts. Please don't judge all NJA pilots by some of these loudmouth juviniles.
We're all in the same boat, lets paddle in the same direction.
Flame away,
Toploader
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