FlexJet Pay/Workrules/Benefits???

[chief9404]

I don't think that the scope provision will stand up to this transaction as Flexjet LLC is not a air carrier.

Don't underestimate Roland Wilder. He is one of the best at creating scope clauses.

 

[Propilot77]

I hear LXJ is offering interviews to furloughed FO guys. Nice move management, bypassing laid-off Flex folks who want to go back. Would have been nice to have some sort of requirement or contract saying they need to recall laid-off employees before going to the street.

They have repeatedly said they went down the whole list and everyone was contacted. I didn't buy it and now it sounds like I might have been right.

 

[SDCFI]

They have repeatedly said they went down the whole list and everyone was contacted. I didn't buy it and now it sounds like I might have been right.

I've also heard the "comprehensive" interview they're putting everyone through is meant to weed out the people who aren't "yes men" and won't drink the koolaid. Just a rumor.

 

[notapilot]

Meanwhile, the 'bad' children at FO who voted union will see no new planes or advancement, while the 'good' children at Flex will get the new toys. Of course it's not sustainable, the high rate of use and cheap maintenance will kill residual value for the Flex owners just like it did for the early Options owners, but the cash flow will look great long enough for Kenn and his gang to cash out. Whoever buys will be left with deferred maintenance, a tired fleet, and promises that can't be kept.

Well thought out. You might consider the plan is for a 4 year fleet age. So unlike a used aircraft program at Options, the planes will be under factory warranty for their life at Flex. That makes what you described a little more sustainable.

 

[slowtation capt]

Let me just ask these questions to a FlexJet pilot:

1: Do you get duty on times? If so, do they call you before duty on time? Are you expected to answer, what happens if you do not answer?

2: Do they expect you to go over 14 hrs of duty time? What happens if you so no?

3: Do you have the right to refuse anything that takes you over 14 hrs of duty on you go home day, including the time of traveling to your domicle?

4: Not sure of your domicles, I know there aren't many, but can they just decide that they want to close one, and if they do, what can you do?

5: If management, mx, scheduling, screw up and they try to put the blame on and hang you for it, to you have an recourse, anyone to help fight for you?

6: Can you call fatigue? And if you do, do you get in trouble for it?

7: Do they expect you to fly more than 10 hrs in a 24 hr period, can you say no, and if so what would happen?

What happens when ownership sells you off, and you find out from an email, stating that such and such now owns you. All the uncertaintity with what can and might be.

These are just some of the things that I feel is where I benefit from having a contract.

 

[BlueNose]

Well thought out. You might consider the plan is for a 4 year fleet age. So unlike a used aircraft program at Options, the planes will be under factory warranty for their life at Flex. That makes what you described a little more sustainable.

Right up until the warranty runs out

 

[jetwash]

I

Meanwhile, the 'bad' children at FO who voted union will see no new planes or advancement, while the 'good' children at Flex will get the new toys. Of course it's not sustainable, the high rate of use and cheap maintenance will kill residual value for the Flex owners just like it did for the early Options owners, but the cash flow will look great long enough for Kenn and his gang to cash out. Whoever buys will be left with deferred maintenance, a tired fleet, and promises that can't be kept.
.

I can remember a time when Travel Air had some nice new Hawkers and Beech Jets and Flops had the "previously enjoyed " ones.
We were all told that they would remain separate and the owners of the new TA aircraft would only fly on the new ones and Flops owners only on the old ones.
When the travel air aircraft reached 5 years they would be sent to the used fleet and their owners would fly in new aircraft that were ordered.

I forgot how that plan worked out?

 

[exagony]

Let me just ask these questions to a FlexJet pilot:

1: Do you get duty on times? If so, do they call you before duty on time? Are you expected to answer, what happens if you do not answer?

yes to duty on times - they can call 2 hours prior to duty on time - if you don't answer no reprecussions - (well maybe put in schedulings black book)

2: Do they expect you to go over 14 hrs of duty time? What happens if you so no?

over 12 hours we get overtime over 14 hours its triple time - over 14 is a game stopper regardless if we are flying - anything over 14 is for travel only on last day or "legal to start/legal to finish situation


3: Do you have the right to refuse anything that takes you over 14 hrs of duty on you go home day, including the time of traveling to your domicle?

last day can go to 16 hours with transportation but still get the 12 hour overtime and 16 hour triple time pay

4: Not sure of your domicles, I know there aren't many, but can they just decide that they want to close one, and if they do, what can you do?

grandfather clause for bases

5: If management, mx, scheduling, screw up and they try to put the blame on and hang you for it, to you have an recourse, anyone to help fight for you?

as long as one has all the facts its never been an issue in all my years here

6: Can you call fatigue? And if you do, do you get in trouble for it?

absolutely can call in fatigue - as long as its not abused never heard of anyone being harrassed

7: Do they expect you to fly more than 10 hrs in a 24 hr period, can you say no, and if so what would happen?

nope and you can refuse if they try to (have done so many times) - never have a problem - its legal or its not

What happens when ownership sells you off, and you find out from an email, stating that such and such now owns you. All the uncertaintity with what can and might be.

well we're going thrugh that right now - its had its moments but the management has been pretty forthcoming for the most part so far

These are just some of the things that I feel is where I benefit from having a contract.

I am so far from a company coolaide drinker as they come - yes there is always room for improvement but as far as the above questions are concerned Flex has been pretty fair about them - so far

 

[Nolife]

They have repeatedly said they went down the whole list and everyone was contacted. I didn't buy it and now it sounds like I might have been right.

There was a mass email from some HR dude inviting everyone to re-apply. For many this was the only contact. This must be what they are talking about. This whole thing wasn't handled very well. To make things worse RH was personally calling FO guys to offer interviews.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I am so far from a company coolaide drinker as they come - yes there is always room for improvement but as far as the above questions are concerned Flex has been pretty fair about them - so far

Right on but I would modify the answer to question #2. They can't make us go over 14 hours EXCEPT for our last day only. Any other day of the rotation we have to agree to it.

 

[hammer2]

Right on but I would modify the answer to question #2. They can't make us go over 14 hours EXCEPT for our last day only. Any other day of the rotation we have to agree to it.

Glad you caught that too. They cannot plan nor can we accept anything planned over 14 hrs except for last day.

 

[BlueNose]

I can remember a time when Travel Air had some nice new Hawkers and Beech Jets and Flops had the "previously enjoyed " ones.
We were all told that they would remain separate and the owners of the new TA aircraft would only fly on the new ones and Flops owners only on the old ones.
When the travel air aircraft reached 5 years they would be sent to the used fleet and their owners would fly in new aircraft that were ordered.

I forgot how that plan worked out?

Exactly, we've seen this act before.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Glad you caught that too. They cannot plan nor can we accept anything planned over 14 hrs except for last day.

One slight correction to the above. Remember, we can go up to 16 hours any day as long as the "plan" is under 14 hours. If you have an owner delay, wx delay or ATC delays we can go over 14. We however cannot exceed 16 hours. All work days with the exception of last day must be planned under 14 hours and we can only agree to extend up to 16 hours on a Part 91 plan only, and as was stated, must be agreed upon at the beginning of the day. Everything else was spot on.

 

[brokeflyer]

actually, you cant take off if you know you're going to go over 14 hours of duty. regardless of the delay. A lot of people don't understand the regulation and EVERY company exploits it to their benefit.

If you "plan" to complete the flight within your duty limits and you have atc, weather delay after take off, then you can go over 14 hours.

if the passenger calls and says he's stuck in traffic and his delay will cause you to exceed your duty time, then off to the hotel you go.

if that was a viable delay reason, then they can just claim tardiness and make up any length of duty they want, which ive seen happen.

 

[dime line]

I am so far from a company coolaide drinker as they come - yes there is always room for improvement but as far as the above questions are concerned Flex has been pretty fair about them - so far

And then there is Kenn Ricci

 

[BlueNose]

Don't underestimate Roland Wilder. He is one of the best at creating scope clauses.

For 121 pilot groups. I don't think he had any experience with 'brand partners' and agency agreements (how could he, since Kenn basically made up the concept during negotiations), or the fact that pure 91K operators are not air carriers. Kenn obviously thinks that left a hole big enough to drive a FlexJet through, and my guess is he's probably right. I assume 1108 will fight it, and a judge will ultimately decide.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

135.267? 10 hours of rest in the previous 24. How can that be another "grey area"?

 

[shanes123]

Flops makes everything a grey area.. They got a loophole for everything

 

[jetwash]

One slight correction to the above. Remember, we can go up to 16 hours any day as long as the "plan" is under 14 hours. If you have an owner delay, wx delay or ATC delays we can go over 14. We however cannot exceed 16 hours. All work days with the exception of last day must be planned under 14 hours and we can only agree to extend up to 16 hours on a Part 91 plan only, and as was stated, must be agreed upon at the beginning of the day. Everything else was spot on.

FYI

Our POI has said that if anything happens no matter how minor. The crew will get a reckless violation on their record if they are over 14 hours on duty at the time of the occurrence.

Something you might consider.

 

[shanes123]

What poi is that? And that might change when ricci shows up all smiles with a big bag of money..or threatens to move everything to Rochester NY FSDO..why you think he deals with a NY FSDO and not the CLE FSDO?