FlexJet Pay/Workrules/Benefits???

[albatros101]

I don't think that the scope provision will stand up to this transaction as Flexjet LLC is not a air carrier.

 

[BlueNose]

BlueNose,

Although I can clearly see you've thought carefully about this matter and have drawn upon your knowledge and experience with regard to the law, as it relates to RLA pilot scope provisions to form your opinions, I'd like to ask you to consider several things you may have missed.

First, transaction involving DAC's purchase of Flex is not complete and may not be complete for several months. The union does not have the ability to enforce the scope provision contained within our contact unless it has been violated. DAC's actions, post transaction, will determine if there is a violation.

Second, since the transaction is not complete, it would be foolish of our union's leadership to speak prematurely about their plans to enforce our scope provision, should that become necessary.

Third, because of the union's silence on this topic, you really have no idea if our scope provision will stand up to this transaction. Unless I'm wrong and you're a scope attorney, or have consulted with one?

I find it interesting that you seem to believe the Flight Options pilots will somehow be at a disadvantage because of this transaction. We are going into this situation with a CBA and an experienced group of representatives to protect our interests. The Flex pilots have neither of these things and will be at the mercy of management.

In one respect I agree with you. There is no doubt KR will attempt to whipsaw the two pilot groups against one another. Those who profess to want to educate the Flex pilots about the evils of employment under KR are largely wasting their breath. The Flex pilots will have to learn about that for themselves. I think we can best help by answering their questions, when asked.

Aviation history has well established that the issues created by these types of transactions often take months and even years to work out. If the Flight Options and Flex pilots can stick together, resist the temptation to buy into all the FUD management has been and will inevitably throw our way and keep our eyes on the long game, we will all be OK.

I hope that you're right and I'm wrong, for the sake of the Options pilots. I don't see it that way, but I'll gladly be proved wrong in this case. I'm not a lawyer, just a pilot, but I think I can see the intended end game here, and it's a gloomy picture.

The scope exception that Kenn will try to exploit with Flex will let them become brand partners and fly our trips. Options becomes the 135 carrier to their company, replacing Jet Solutions. Following that, the Options pilot group is allowed to dwindle (or furloughed) to the 4.0 manning model in the contract - a level so low that they could never operate there independently (and which should never have been agreed to, by the way). We see it starting with the Hawker fleet already.

Flex will pick up the extra flying. Options will save money by having fewer pilots and no core fleet to pay for (the biggest capital requirement for most fractionals). Flex will pick up trips to help pay for their core fleet. It'll all look great for a while, the money will flow back and forth and a good portion will find its way into Kenn's pockets.

Meanwhile, the 'bad' children at FO who voted union will see no new planes or advancement, while the 'good' children at Flex will get the new toys. Of course it's not sustainable, the high rate of use and cheap maintenance will kill residual value for the Flex owners just like it did for the early Options owners, but the cash flow will look great long enough for Kenn and his gang to cash out. Whoever buys will be left with deferred maintenance, a tired fleet, and promises that can't be kept.

Maybe you can stop him, and make his arrogance his achilles heel. Or maybe I'm just too much of an Eeyore and none of this is in really in the cards. My hat's off to you if you can keep this from being a loss for the FO pilots. Please do so and prove me wrong. Good luck.

 

[SkyCat45]

Saw this on a website and thought I would share:

"A professional pilot sets the example: How you act both inside and outside the cockpit is a sign of a professional. On or off duty you still represent the company and of course yourself. Inappropraite behavor is simply not acceptable and you will quickly find yourself on the street. Many times young crewmembers may want to imitate the way you act. You want to make sure that you ALWAYS act in an appropriate and respectful way. I have heard stories of experienced pilots with profanity laced tirades in the FBO against their crew or staff. Your clients and crew are watching. What kind of example does that send? Is that someone you want to fly with? Another important point, with the myriad of chat rooms, blogs and message boards these days, what you say or upload can stay with you for a VERY long time. What you post on the web is pretty much there forever and the lack of civility I see these days is disturbing. Personal attacks against crewmembers on a web page or message board can have a detrimental effect to your future career. Remember that your online reputation can be as important as your offline one and employers do look for your online activities when they are considering hiring you. Having an opinion is fine, but be please respectful to others."

I know we have people that are very passionate about their ideas and experiences. Just thought I would share this and throw it out. I believe both Flight Options and FlexJet have great people working at their respective companies. Lets keep encouraging each other.

 

[Nolife]

I hear LXJ is offering interviews to furloughed FO guys. Nice move management, bypassing laid-off Flex folks who want to go back. Would have been nice to have some sort of requirement or contract saying they need to recall laid-off employees before going to the street.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I hear LXJ is offering interviews to furloughed FO guys. Nice move management, bypassing laid-off Flex folks who want to go back. Would have been nice to have some sort of requirement or contract saying they need to recall laid-off employees before going to the street.

They did.

 

[chief9404]

I don't think that the scope provision will stand up to this transaction as Flexjet LLC is not a air carrier.

Don't underestimate Roland Wilder. He is one of the best at creating scope clauses.

 

[Propilot77]

I hear LXJ is offering interviews to furloughed FO guys. Nice move management, bypassing laid-off Flex folks who want to go back. Would have been nice to have some sort of requirement or contract saying they need to recall laid-off employees before going to the street.

They have repeatedly said they went down the whole list and everyone was contacted. I didn't buy it and now it sounds like I might have been right.

 

[SDCFI]

They have repeatedly said they went down the whole list and everyone was contacted. I didn't buy it and now it sounds like I might have been right.

I've also heard the "comprehensive" interview they're putting everyone through is meant to weed out the people who aren't "yes men" and won't drink the koolaid. Just a rumor.

 

[notapilot]

Meanwhile, the 'bad' children at FO who voted union will see no new planes or advancement, while the 'good' children at Flex will get the new toys. Of course it's not sustainable, the high rate of use and cheap maintenance will kill residual value for the Flex owners just like it did for the early Options owners, but the cash flow will look great long enough for Kenn and his gang to cash out. Whoever buys will be left with deferred maintenance, a tired fleet, and promises that can't be kept.

Well thought out. You might consider the plan is for a 4 year fleet age. So unlike a used aircraft program at Options, the planes will be under factory warranty for their life at Flex. That makes what you described a little more sustainable.

 

[slowtation capt]

Let me just ask these questions to a FlexJet pilot:

1: Do you get duty on times? If so, do they call you before duty on time? Are you expected to answer, what happens if you do not answer?

2: Do they expect you to go over 14 hrs of duty time? What happens if you so no?

3: Do you have the right to refuse anything that takes you over 14 hrs of duty on you go home day, including the time of traveling to your domicle?

4: Not sure of your domicles, I know there aren't many, but can they just decide that they want to close one, and if they do, what can you do?

5: If management, mx, scheduling, screw up and they try to put the blame on and hang you for it, to you have an recourse, anyone to help fight for you?

6: Can you call fatigue? And if you do, do you get in trouble for it?

7: Do they expect you to fly more than 10 hrs in a 24 hr period, can you say no, and if so what would happen?

What happens when ownership sells you off, and you find out from an email, stating that such and such now owns you. All the uncertaintity with what can and might be.

These are just some of the things that I feel is where I benefit from having a contract.

 

[BlueNose]

Well thought out. You might consider the plan is for a 4 year fleet age. So unlike a used aircraft program at Options, the planes will be under factory warranty for their life at Flex. That makes what you described a little more sustainable.

Right up until the warranty runs out

 

[jetwash]

I

Meanwhile, the 'bad' children at FO who voted union will see no new planes or advancement, while the 'good' children at Flex will get the new toys. Of course it's not sustainable, the high rate of use and cheap maintenance will kill residual value for the Flex owners just like it did for the early Options owners, but the cash flow will look great long enough for Kenn and his gang to cash out. Whoever buys will be left with deferred maintenance, a tired fleet, and promises that can't be kept.
.

I can remember a time when Travel Air had some nice new Hawkers and Beech Jets and Flops had the "previously enjoyed " ones.
We were all told that they would remain separate and the owners of the new TA aircraft would only fly on the new ones and Flops owners only on the old ones.
When the travel air aircraft reached 5 years they would be sent to the used fleet and their owners would fly in new aircraft that were ordered.

I forgot how that plan worked out?

 

[exagony]

Let me just ask these questions to a FlexJet pilot:

1: Do you get duty on times? If so, do they call you before duty on time? Are you expected to answer, what happens if you do not answer?

yes to duty on times - they can call 2 hours prior to duty on time - if you don't answer no reprecussions - (well maybe put in schedulings black book)

2: Do they expect you to go over 14 hrs of duty time? What happens if you so no?

over 12 hours we get overtime over 14 hours its triple time - over 14 is a game stopper regardless if we are flying - anything over 14 is for travel only on last day or "legal to start/legal to finish situation


3: Do you have the right to refuse anything that takes you over 14 hrs of duty on you go home day, including the time of traveling to your domicle?

last day can go to 16 hours with transportation but still get the 12 hour overtime and 16 hour triple time pay

4: Not sure of your domicles, I know there aren't many, but can they just decide that they want to close one, and if they do, what can you do?

grandfather clause for bases

5: If management, mx, scheduling, screw up and they try to put the blame on and hang you for it, to you have an recourse, anyone to help fight for you?

as long as one has all the facts its never been an issue in all my years here

6: Can you call fatigue? And if you do, do you get in trouble for it?

absolutely can call in fatigue - as long as its not abused never heard of anyone being harrassed

7: Do they expect you to fly more than 10 hrs in a 24 hr period, can you say no, and if so what would happen?

nope and you can refuse if they try to (have done so many times) - never have a problem - its legal or its not

What happens when ownership sells you off, and you find out from an email, stating that such and such now owns you. All the uncertaintity with what can and might be.

well we're going thrugh that right now - its had its moments but the management has been pretty forthcoming for the most part so far

These are just some of the things that I feel is where I benefit from having a contract.

I am so far from a company coolaide drinker as they come - yes there is always room for improvement but as far as the above questions are concerned Flex has been pretty fair about them - so far

 

[Nolife]

They have repeatedly said they went down the whole list and everyone was contacted. I didn't buy it and now it sounds like I might have been right.

There was a mass email from some HR dude inviting everyone to re-apply. For many this was the only contact. This must be what they are talking about. This whole thing wasn't handled very well. To make things worse RH was personally calling FO guys to offer interviews.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I am so far from a company coolaide drinker as they come - yes there is always room for improvement but as far as the above questions are concerned Flex has been pretty fair about them - so far

Right on but I would modify the answer to question #2. They can't make us go over 14 hours EXCEPT for our last day only. Any other day of the rotation we have to agree to it.