FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[Praetorian]

Really? Which Section of Chapter 8, exactly?

See subsection 9.204 of the NMB?s Representation Manual
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf

 

[ProFracPilot]

See subsection 9.204 of the NMB?s Representation Manual

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf

Thanks. That wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[Praetorian]

Thanks. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Nobody likes a smartass Let me make it even easier for you.

See page 11.

Furloughed Employees
Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

I hope you Flex guys make the connection. This is why he ran the CitationAir ruse. He wants to trick the FO furlowed pilots into being pissed at the union. He wants their help voting it out.

 

[flex*wife]

My opinion doesn't really matter but I'm gonna say something that no one is gonna like but has to be considered (from the flex side...)

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

FYI, I am fairly pro union - and the half truths and smoke and mirror show thus far in 2014 have put me more comfortably in that camp - but in the end, have we all to do what's best for us personally bad for where one falls on the seniority list the best option might be no union...

It's like someone said to my husband - it's a great time to be an investor in KR, a horrible time to be his employee... Lots of unknowns for the latter amongst a group of people not known to be free spirits (nor would you want them to be)

 

[gret]

Nobody likes a smartass Let me make it even easier for you.

See page 11.

Furloughed Employees
Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

I hope you Flex guys make the connection. This is why he ran the CitationAir ruse. He wants to trick the FO furlowed pilots into being pissed at the union. He wants their help voting it out.

But have they retained "an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed." ? Doubtful

See NMB Case No. R-6933 United Airlines, Inc. where the company was trying to include furloughed former employees as eligible voters and the NMB, and the unions, said not so fast buckaroo!

 

[jetwash]

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

You seem to be under the impression that senority will still matter if there is no union. It will not matter how long you were at Flex or Fo, what will matter is how close you are to the middle managers.

Aircraft seats, schedules, vacations will first be given to the " good old boys" at the company. Unless you are a friend of TM, BR, Jk, JS you will get what is left over vacations and time off during the holidays will be divided by L$. If you don't like it you can complain to TM,Br,JK,JS and see how that goes.

. I am sure that there is nothing in that one page agreement that states how bidding will be done and how complaints will be handled.

As for later voting in a union, it would take a minimum of 1 year to go through all the procedureres then another 4 years to negotiate a first contract. Plus who would help with the start up funds if you already votedout one union that was already on property. If 6 months after voting the union out your spouses pay was cut or his work schedule increased without any extra pay. Would you be happy to wait 5 years to be in a position to try to get it back.

 

[Praetorian]

My opinion doesn't really matter but I'm gonna say something that no one is gonna like but has to be considered (from the flex side...)

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

FYI, I am fairly pro union - and the half truths and smoke and mirror show thus far in 2014 have put me more comfortably in that camp - but in the end, have we all to do what's best for us personally bad for where one falls on the seniority list the best option might be no union...

It's like someone said to my husband - it's a great time to be an investor in KR, a horrible time to be his employee... Lots of unknowns for the latter amongst a group of people not known to be free spirits (nor would you want them to be)

Decertification is the worst possible outcome. The only way to protect ourselves from Ricci, and, more importantly, from the realities of the market place which views pilots as nothing more than overpaid taxi drivers, is to band together across the two companies and use our collective bargaining power to protect what we have and improve upon it. For people who are actually pro-union, that is about as basic as it gets. Decertification and putting individual self interests ahead of all other considerations, including the well being of co-workers and our profession, it's the logic of those who have destroyed the pilot profession.

 

[doh]

See subsection 9.204 of the NMB?s Representation Manual
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf

Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

So if you are flying somewhere else, you don't have a right to vote?

 

[Praetorian]

Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

So if you are flying somewhere else, you don't have a right to vote?

No they get to vote. The NMB has historically been very generous on this. They don't want to disenfranchise anyone.

 

[Fresh Air]

The furloughed Flight Options pilots DID vote on our CBA, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[dime line]

My opinion doesn't really matter but I'm gonna say something that no one is gonna like but has to be considered (from the flex side...)

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

FYI, I am fairly pro union - and the half truths and smoke and mirror show thus far in 2014 have put me more comfortably in that camp - but in the end, have we all to do what's best for us personally bad for where one falls on the seniority list the best option might be no union...

It's like someone said to my husband - it's a great time to be an investor in KR, a horrible time to be his employee... Lots of unknowns for the latter amongst a group of people not known to be free spirits (nor would you want them to be)

Wow talk about F...your buddy!! and F... the pilot next to you

 

[FR8DOG777]

Decertification is the worst possible outcome. The only way to protect ourselves from Ricci, and, more importantly, from the realities of the market place which views pilots as nothing more than overpaid taxi drivers, is to band together across the two companies and use our collective bargaining power to protect what we have and improve upon it. For people who are actually pro-union, that is about as basic as it gets. Decertification and putting individual self interests ahead of all other considerations, including the well being of co-workers and our profession, it's the logic of those who have destroyed the pilot profession.

+1, Never been a been union fan until I met Ricci. Working for Ricci without a CBA is more dangerous than unprotected sex. Flex wifey is worried about herself and all those vacation days that were lost.

 

[hammer2]

Wow talk about F...your buddy!! and F... the pilot next to you

Would you give up your seat and pay for him? We're caught between a rock and a hard spot and a union is not the answer.

 

[ProFracPilot]

We're caught between a rock and a hard spot and a union is not the answer.

Then what, in your opinion, IS the answer?

 

[Fresh Air]

For the record:

I would not support, nor vote for, any solution to this integration issue that would result in any pay or benefit cut for you Flex crews. The objective should be a solution which results in the integrated group achieving the best of both worlds: Flex crews getting the protection from abuse that a CBA offers, and the Options crews pay and benefits being increased to the level that the Flex crews enjoy. There are contract tools, such as LOA's and fences that can be used to make this a reality.

We can expect DAC management to fight this tooth and nail, because their goal as a business will be maximum cost savings and control. They will push hard for no contract, which gives them license to change everything else with an email.