FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[The Architect]

Not Possible.

The way I read it, a flight options pilots will not fly a challenger 300.

The older challenger 300s will be offered at the flight options service level but flown by Flexjet pilots. The new 350s will be operated by Flexjet pilots as well and offered under the Flexjet service level.

We've been told we will be flying both FO and Flex trips an the difference, for us, will mainly be the name on the trip sheet.


As far as the union is concerned, the previous post is correct. Your not gonna scare the guys into joining with what ifs.

Sometimes what you've "been told" is not always right. Better yet, not even possible. So, were your lied to? Or misinformed? Or is that the same thing?

Why?

It appears that if Flight Options sells the share or jetcard, then Flight Options must perform the flying unless another agreement is reached. Sold by "Flight Options," flown by "Flight Options Pilots."


Flight Options CBA:

"1.2 Scope of the Agreement
1.2(a) Except as otherwise provided in this Section, all present and future revenue flying performed in and for the service of the Company, its Affiliates, or the Company?s Parent, including present and future flying performed on behalf of the Company, its Affiliates, or Parent pursuant to any agreement or arrangement to [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]which the Company, any of its Affiliates, or Parent holds a majority interest, shall be performed by Pilots named on the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement and any other applicable agreement between the Company and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division." [/FONT][/FONT]

 

[dime line]

Sometimes what you've "been told" is not always right. Better yet, not even possible. So, were your lied to? Or misinformed? Or is that the same thing?

Why?

It appears that if Flight Options sells the share or jetcard, then Flight Options must perform the flying unless another agreement is reached. Sold by "Flight Options," flown by "Flight Options Pilots."


Flight Options CBA:

"1.2 Scope of the Agreement
1.2(a) Except as otherwise provided in this Section, all present and future revenue flying performed in and for the service of the Company, its Affiliates, or the Company?s Parent, including present and future flying performed on behalf of the Company, its Affiliates, or Parent pursuant to any agreement or arrangement to [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]which the Company, any of its Affiliates, or Parent holds a majority interest, shall be performed by Pilots named on the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement and any other applicable agreement between the Company and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division." [/FONT][/FONT]

And that means after the single carrier goes, were all Flight Options pilots. or what ever the name will be, but we will be one pilot group.

You guys are fighting over the scraps

 

[albatros101]

Flight Options CBA:

"1.2 Scope of the Agreement
1.2(a) Except as otherwise provided in this Section, all present and future revenue flying performed in and for the service of the Company, its Affiliates, or the Company?s Parent, including present and future flying performed on behalf of the Company, its Affiliates, or Parent pursuant to any agreement or arrangement to [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]which the Company, any of its Affiliates, or Parent holds a majority interest, shall be performed by Pilots named on the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement and any other applicable agreement between the Company and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division." [/FONT][/FONT]

KR can violate scope and tell the teamsters to sue him. Then IBT will go to court KR will drag it out and out....... Then say sorry and comply with the CBA, It's been done before,

In 2008, Mesa Air Group, the parent company of Freedom Airlines, entered litigation about contractual obligations with Delta Air Lines. Delta attempted to terminate the ERJ-145 In 2008, a federal judge blocked Delta from terminating Freedom's regional flying contract, but it forced Mesa to file for bankruptcy.

Freedom won the case, they were on the right side of the law and the judge agreed. He ruled in their favor, but it was to late. Delta planed it that way they lost the case , but won the war Freedom with all its pilots and other crew were gone.

The old saying " the one with the gold makes the rules" is true whether we like it or not.

 

[albatros101]

PS. 300 flying will be by Flex crew's operated by Jet Solutions LLC

 

[The Architect]

Close, but no Prize.

PS. 300 flying will be by Flex crew's operated by Jet Solutions LLC

Your informational research with the Mesa debacle should be noted. However, is not the same situation. Closer research of that litigation compared to this situation will indicate that significant difference arise.

Close, but no prize.

The significance is in the scope language of Flight Options CBA. The parties (holdings and parents) are not publically denying the application of the scope portion of the Flight Options CBA. Why? They can't.

So, read carefully. You need not be an attorney and this is not a "gray" area.

"Except as otherwise provided in this Section, all present and future revenue flying performed in and for the service of the Company, its Affiliates, or the Company's Parent, including present and future flying performed on behalf of the Company, its Affiliates, or Parent pursuant to any agreement or arrangement to [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]which the Company, any of its Affiliates, or Parent holds a majority interest, shall be performed by Pilots named on the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement and any other applicable agreement between the Company and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division." [/FONT][/FONT]

Again, Flight Options advertises the sale of fractions, membership and jetcard (service) for the Challenger 300 (check their website). The flying performed (persons employed as pilots flying aircraft) on behalf of the Company (Flight Options), any of its Affiliates, or PARENT (DAC and ALL Holding Companies)...SHALL be performed by pilots named on the Flight Options Pilot Seniority List.

One can make the argument that Jet Solutions is doing the work with Flexjet pilots. Again. Close, but no prize!

Read the language.

On a side note. Notice that "the Challenger 300 will be available beginning Fall 2014."

Now, the Flexjet Pilot group may in fact crew the Challenger 300's in Fall 2014. However, it won't occur, not even begin, without fence agreements negotiated between the parites.

 

[albatros101]

I agree that there is no "gray" area.

The point is if KR is as bad as noted here than he could choose to discard the CBA and do what he wants to. His actions will be challenged in court by the IBT and the IBT WILL win but at what price? KR will decide if he wants to pay the price? It could be a ploy to tie up contract negotiations? Who knows what he will do.

Our last contract took 6 years to negotiate and we started 1 year before it was due. The company would violate the contract and then it would be grieved and as all of you know very grievance must be resolved before a new contract. I guess my point is watch for him to drag and drag his feet and to slow negotiations down for as long as he can.

2018 is my bet on a new contact for you guys $100 any takers? According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics the time line for negotiations vary from 16.5 to 72.1 months (Airlines).

 

[Club ORD FO]

If options petitions the NMB for single carrier, or should I say when (later this year we were told), representation will be put to a vote. There is extremely little support for a union among the flex pilots. Grievances won't matter if the union gets voted out. So I wouldn't worry about how long the next contract will take. Perhaps KR is betting on the union going away too. Don't hate, I'm just telling you what the flex pilots are saying.

 

[The Architect]

Little Support?

If options petitions the NMB for single carrier, or should I say when (later this year we were told), representation will be put to a vote. There is extremely little support for a union among the flex pilots. Grievances won't matter if the union gets voted out. So I wouldn't worry about how long the next contract will take. Perhaps KR is betting on the union going away too. Don't hate, I'm just telling you what the flex pilots are saying.

Bet yet support.

Time will tell. But historically, time is Mr. Riccis worst enemy.

It is always surprising how many employees come out of the woodwork supporting and not supporting a union. At some point the majority will jump off the fence.

And remember, it will only take a jump on one side of the fence to provide a "little support" for a vote for representation.

 

[The Architect]

Discard?

I agree that there is no "gray" area.

The point is if KR is as bad as noted here than he could choose to discard the CBA and do what he wants to. His actions will be challenged in court by the IBT and the IBT WILL win but at what price? KR will decide if he wants to pay the price? It could be a ploy to tie up contract negotiations? Who knows what he will do.

Our last contract took 6 years to negotiate and we started 1 year before it was due. The company would violate the contract and then it would be grieved and as all of you know very grievance must be resolved before a new contract. I guess my point is watch for him to drag and drag his feet and to slow negotiations down for as long as he can.

2018 is my bet on a new contact for you guys $100 any takers? According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics the time line for negotiations vary from 16.5 to 72.1 months (Airlines).

Discard is not an option.

While litigation could be the result of a dispute, discarding a legal binding contract is not so easy.

It's called a court injunction from a federal court. And gets really ugly. Mr. Ricci would not be fighting the IBT. He would be up against a Federal Court Judge.

New contract?

The existing Flight Options CBA would remain intact until a NEW CBA was negotiated and in full force for the combined group. Maybe called the One Sky CBA.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I think there are far fewer supports at flex than the 1108 realizes. It's a big risk to put it to a vote. Personally I was hoping they'd just agree to some fences and let us stay separate.