FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[slowtation capt]

The union did not initiate this integration of operations. The company did.

There seems to be a misconception that the union is the driving mechanism by which the two company operations are integrating. Not true.

The IBT did not acquire Flexjet. DAC and the associated holding companies did. The IBT did not state that operations would integrate. The company did. It was part of Kenn Ricci's (DAC Pricinpal) presentation to the Flight Options employees on February 11 and Flexjet employees on February 12. It was not only spoken words, but part of the PowerPoint slides. Clearly stating:

3Q 2014 Certificate Consolidation Begins.
4Q 2014 Operations Integration.

Don't point the finger at the IBT as the party "causing" the problem with regard to the merging of the two groups. Management initiated it and knew all of the cosequences.

Ok...ok. Let's take it further. The statement that "...if we vote no to the union, we will be allowed to stay separate" is flat out wrong! The two pilot seniority list WILL merge. Union or not union. The company is going to do that no matter what! The question is whether the combined group of pilots will have representational rights under the RLA.

Option 1: The IBT negotiates a fence agreement protecting BOTH pilot groups. The IBT files for a single carrier determination. A vote for representation occurs. The IBT prevails. Both operational and seniority integration occur. The combined pilot group (each with representatives on the negotiating committee) begin to negotiate a new CBA covering the post-merger pilot group. The seniority integration occurs in a fair and equitable manner (McCaskill-Bond).

Option 2: The IBT negotiates a fence agreement protecting BOTH pilot groups. The IBT files for a single carrier determination. A vote for representation occurs. The IBT does NOT prevail. BOTH pilot groups are now "at will" employees. Neither pilot group is covered by a CBA or is able to negotiate a new CBA. Operational and seniority integration will STILL occur. Seniority integration will still occur in a fair and equitable manner(McCaskill-Bond).

So, seniority integration is going to happen. Representation or not. With representation BOTH pilot groups will have a say in how it happens. Without representation...management will decide how it happens. And if a pilot doesn't like it...well, be prepared to file suit on your own. Good luck with that concept.

Both groups have a free choice as to their individual and combined futures. The union may or may not prevail. The integration WILL occur.

Carefully gather the facts and become educated in every aspect of this event. You and your family's futures depend on it.

Your post's are spot on how it's happened and how it will happen. Keep it up

 

[wingsnthings]

I understand it as a single carrier ruling can only be petioned by the IBT or 50% +1 of the combined pilot group. Management can NOT petition for it. I don't believe that 50%+1 wants a merger of the groups, so the IBT has the power to push the issue or leave it alone.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Your post's are spot on how it's happened and how it will happen. Keep it up

But nowhere does it say merger of pilot groups.

Operations integration is dispatch, scheduling, international, marketing etc.

You are jumping to conclusions. We can have operational integration with two separate pilots groups. KR has stated this.

 

[slowtation capt]

I think you should stop calling your boss a liar. You do realize you work for DW now, right? You report to your company, who reports to JW who reports to DW.

Wrong, I work for KR - the owner.
Again, nobody has told us that DW is running the show. So how would I know she's my "boss" besides from reading it on an open forum message board on the internet.
DW was so restricted that she couldnt even send a welcome message?
My boss is my program manager


First it's:
Yammer - Management (DW) - 4/8:

"The company could not allow the crew [Flight Options] on Yammer as the union requests that the company does not message directly to their crew, but through them. I would love to be able to speak with them directly."

"Unfortunately, like I have been talking to you these past days, the union would not allow me doing that with FO crew."

Then it's:

DW has shed light into the conversations regarding Yammer and no she is not a liar. Your union put so many restrictions on how information would be given to you that it was technically not feasible. Since we couldn't abide by restrictions on how information had to pass through the union first the access was denied.

First, it's the Union wouldn't allow message directly to the FO employees, but through the Union.
Then it becomes that the Union put too many restrictions on her.

Mom lied, mom got caught, mom is trying to back track her lie in hopes that her children will give up and become distracted with something else. Maybe even move onto dad, where mom has all ready informed dad of the said lie, and to make sure dad sticks with mom's story.

We have tons of aircraft on order so we are looking at a good growth rate at FJ over the next several years.

"Boeing said that 25 orders for its state-of-the-art 787 Dreamliner had been cancelled"
"Airbus confirmed that Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways had cancelled orders for seven A350s"
"Lion Air to cancel order for five Boeing 787s"
"Boeing has suffered 45 cancellations of plane orders (all single-aisle 737s). Subtracted from the company's 280 gross orders booked across all aircraft models, this leaves net new orders at 235 "

Yes because new airplane orders are set in stone

 

[Club ORD FO]

But nowhere does it say merger of pilot groups.

Operations integration is dispatch, scheduling, international, marketing etc.

You are jumping to conclusions. We can have operational integration with two separate pilots groups. KR has stated this.

I tried to find a slide or recording of someone saying this but could not find it, although I'm under the same impression. Above all else the Flexjet pilots do not want to merge, there is more for us to lose. Options has furloughs, lower pay/benefits, older airplanes, more senior by DOH... Forget the union for a second, there is not much to gain by the average flex pilot if we merge. More so if you are an options pilots (upgrades into out cushy challengers with fancy carpet). So, it's being sold to us that a no vote to representation will mean we can stay separate. Tempting to say the least. The question is, do we believe that we would stay separate? I don't know at this point. When it gets closer to a vote a lot of questions will have to be asked and answered

 

[The Architect]

Try Again

But nowhere does it say merger of pilot groups.

Operations integration is dispatch, scheduling, international, marketing etc.

You are jumping to conclusions. We can have operational integration with two separate pilots groups. KR has stated this.

Ya, right.

C'mon. You know the truth.

Just because KR has stated something it's accurate? Wrong.

Operations integration...everything but pilots. Really?

Consolidation of the operating certificates in itself may be a trigger of integration of the two pilot groups.

Remember this from the FAQ's from Flexjet Management?

What are some of the factors that the NMB uses to determine a Single System?
Overlapping ownership, common officers and boards, combined management, combined work force, integrated operations (such as scheduling, dispatch), common labor relations, common personnel management, common marketing, common livery, common uniforms, and common operating certificates are some of the factors.

 

[wingsnthings]

Ya, right.

C'mon. You know the truth.

Just because KR has stated something it's accurate? Wrong.

Operations integration...everything but pilots. Really?

Consolidation of the operating certificates in itself may be a trigger of integration of the two pilot groups.

Remember this from the FAQ's from Flexjet Management?

What are some of the factors that the NMB uses to determine a Single System?
Overlapping ownership, common officers and boards, combined management, combined work force, integrated operations (such as scheduling, dispatch), common labor relations, common personnel management, common marketing, common livery, common uniforms, and common operating certificates are some of the factors.

I would agree that we will meet the definition of a single carrier, but the NMB isn't going to step in unless they are asked too.

 

[wingsnthings]

Wrong, I work for KR - the owner.
Again, nobody has told us that DW is running the show. So how would I know she's my "boss" besides from reading it on an open forum message board on the internet.
DW was so restricted that she couldnt even send a welcome message?
My boss is my program manager


First it's:
Yammer - Management (DW) - 4/8:

"The company could not allow the crew [Flight Options] on Yammer as the union requests that the company does not message directly to their crew, but through them. I would love to be able to speak with them directly."

"Unfortunately, like I have been talking to you these past days, the union would not allow me doing that with FO crew."

Then it's:


First, it's the Union wouldn't allow message directly to the FO employees, but through the Union.
Then it becomes that the Union put too many restrictions on her.

Mom lied, mom got caught, mom is trying to back track her lie in hopes that her children will give up and become distracted with something else. Maybe even move onto dad, where mom has all ready informed dad of the said lie, and to make sure dad sticks with mom's story.



"Boeing said that 25 orders for its state-of-the-art 787 Dreamliner had been cancelled"
"Airbus confirmed that Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways had cancelled orders for seven A350s"
"Lion Air to cancel order for five Boeing 787s"
"Boeing has suffered 45 cancellations of plane orders (all single-aisle 737s). Subtracted from the company's 280 gross orders booked across all aircraft models, this leaves net new orders at 235 "

Yes because new airplane orders are set in stone

She didn't lie. You just pulled out what you wanted and left the part out that wouldn't help your position. As for the Boeing stats....thank you for the useless info.

 

[The Architect]

This isn't Yammer. Speak freely!

I think you should stop calling your boss a liar. You do realize you work for DW now, right? You report to your company, who reports to JW who reports to DW. You seem to believe that being in a union allows you to speak to your boss in any way you like. Bet if you were sitting across from her at a table and not hiding behind a screen name your tone would be different.

I think Bombardier was actually holding FJ back. Under our current management and the financial backing DAC has given to FJ I think great things are in our future. We have tons of aircraft on order so we are looking at a good growth rate at FJ over the next several years.

Your doom and gloom really doesn't phase me since the FO pilots have no control over the FJ pilots future. You seem to have thus belief that because you have a union you have the control. That is not the case.

This isn't Yammer. Say whatever you would like.

Thank goodness for anonymity here.

Now, on the other hand. Don't go on Yammer and call DW a liar or question any other one in leadership. If you are a Flexjet pilot, you are a "at will" employee. You will probably get the Waterview One Arrival and can be fired without just cause.

Um, Yes. The union does have some control. That's the beauty of being unionized.

 

[slowtation capt]

She didn't lie. You just pulled out what you wanted and left the part out that wouldn't help your position. As for the Boeing stats....thank you for the useless info.

I didn't pull anything, cause they are blocking us from it.
I just used information from this site.
If there is more to it, then put it out there.
We have all put our Union message fully out there
Not trying to hid a thing

"Bombardier said Monday it delivered 238 aircraft in 2013"
"It received 388 orders net of cancellations"
"In all, Bombardier took 26 orders for business aircraft in the quarter and had 12 cancellations. That compares with 27 orders and 80 cancellations a year ago"

Is that better, here's some info from your divorced momma