Flex Jet read file

[GooseHZ]

Shane is far from a professional.....he's a very very lost soul.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

You guys did do a good job of pushing his buttons. He is probably under a lot of stress. It would be a nice gift to him to cut him a break.

Enjoy the holidays with your family and friends.

 

[doh]

I'm taking a break from him.

 

[shanes123]

I'm taking a break from him.

Really. You threaten me in a prior post then when I call you out your taking a break from me you coward! You hide behind this message board. But when I call you out you hide like a scared little bitch that you are. Done wasting my time with you DOH your dog ******************** on my shoe.

 

[BE40Driver]

Shanes, Glad you no longer work for Options as you need to get a life and move on!

 

[doh]

Not hiding from you at all. This is just pointless. Taking a break from that.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

doh
just remember it is the holiday season and some of these guys have taken a big hit. Imagine being in your 40's and still living with your wife and kids in your parents basement. I'll buy him a double. Make that a fifth.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Happy new years! New years resolution for this old dog, death to the slave machine that is Flight Options. Stand tall, stand united and send Ricci and company packing, thats my resolution.

 

[OHGOON]

Why would management want to throw out the union? Based on the comments, it sounds like they have a pretty good deal with the union in place.

Shouldn't those that are unhappy being addressing their ire at the leaders of the union who talked everyone into the contract? Seems that Ken agreed to what the employees wanted...now they have it and they still aren't happy. What's a guy suppose to do?

Facts and historical context seem not really to be your strong suit, but the statement above is so dumb it's surprising, even for you. We know you're reflexively anti-union but do you have to be willfully ignorant to remain so?

It's a fact that Flops got their contract in the depth of the aftermath of the 08 Financial collapse. Given that prior to, they were the worst paid and most abused pilot group in the Frac world, their contract was a vast improvement and considering what they were up against, a borderline miracle.

FLOPS pay scales indeed remained substandard compared with NJ so called industry standard (negotiated during the height of the gogo years), but everything else in their CBA is a thing of beauty and in some ways even exceeds some of what NJ's CBA guarantees.

Ricci never agreed to what the pilots really wanted and the Union leadership never sold this contract as the end all be all. In fact, historically a first time CBA is always a building block from which things will be improved upon over time. Ricci therefore really wants to get rid of the Union at FLOPS because he knows that when the two operations finally merge he will have to deal with a much larger unionized pilot group which will cost him not just more money but absolute control over his new baby. CEOs, usually being Type A control freaks, really hate to be restricted in any way, especially when it comes from people they deem to be beneath them.

Hope I cleared up your misconception that Ricci loves having a Union in place.

 

[gret]

Facts and historical context seem not really to be your strong suit, but the statement above is so dumb it's surprising, even for you. We know you're reflexively anti-union but do you have to be willfully ignorant to remain so?

It's a fact that Flops got their contract in the depth of the aftermath of the 08 Financial collapse. Given that prior to, they were the worst paid and most abused pilot group in the Frac world, their contract was a vast improvement and considering what they were up against, a borderline miracle.

FLOPS pay scales indeed remained substandard compared with NJ so called industry standard (negotiated during the height of the gogo years), but everything else in their CBA is a thing of beauty and in some ways even exceeds some of what NJ's CBA guarantees.

Ricci never agreed to what the pilots really wanted and the Union leadership never sold this contract as the end all be all. In fact, historically a first time CBA is always a building block from which things will be improved upon over time. Ricci therefore really wants to get rid of the Union at FLOPS because he knows that when the two operations finally merge he will have to deal with a much larger unionized pilot group which will cost him not just more money but absolute control over his new baby. CEOs, usually being Type A control freaks, really hate to be restricted in any way, especially when it comes from people they deem to be beneath them.

Hope I cleared up your misconception that Ricci loves having a Union in place.

OHGOON...great to hear from you...but a personal shot so early in the year? Hope you and yours had some good holidays and best wishes for the New Year!

My post is a bit old...December 20th I believe...not sure why you waited until now to bring it up. I stand by what was posted...can't blame management if the union leadership fell down on the job...the members voted them in...voted on the contract...and if they don't like what they bargained for, deal with it the next time. It's not management's fault.

Did a little research on the phrase "reflexively anti-union"...cute cliche that appears to have originated by interesting souls who use it whenever they don't have substantive ammo to fire when faced with crisp, clear, and irrefutable facts that support a position that is contrary to theirs.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

OMG! How could THIS have happened! I was stunned & surprised.

"...we have become aware that the Company has been using Flexjet aircraft to cover supplemental lift at Flight Options." [excerpt from the 1108's 1/25 letter to company]

I mean, Jiminy Crickets! Didn't our most trustworthy leaders assure us the two companies would remain separate? There's gotta be a mistake here, there just has to be!

 

[johnsonrod]

When will the Lear 75 start to show up?

 

[shanes123]

Ricci lied !!!!!! NEVER!!!!!!

 

[doh]

OHGOON...great to hear from you...but a personal shot so early in the year? Hope you and yours had some good holidays and best wishes for the New Year!

My post is a bit old...December 20th I believe...not sure why you waited until now to bring it up. I stand by what was posted...can't blame management if the union leadership fell down on the job...the members voted them in...voted on the contract...and if they don't like what they bargained for, deal with it the next time. It's not management's fault.

Did a little research on the phrase "reflexively anti-union"...cute cliche that appears to have originated by interesting souls who use it whenever they don't have substantive ammo to fire when faced with crisp, clear, and irrefutable facts that support a position that is contrary to theirs.

You don't have "crisp, clear, and irrefutable facts" on your side. No union is perfect, but your management is no prize either. OHGOON has a far better grasp of the facts in this case.

 

[BlueNose]

OMG! How could THIS have happened! I was stunned & surprised.

"...we have become aware that the Company has been using Flexjet aircraft to cover supplemental lift at Flight Options." [excerpt from the 1108's 1/25 letter to company]

I mean, Jiminy Crickets! Didn't our most trustworthy leaders assure us the two companies would remain separate? There's gotta be a mistake here, there just has to be!

And 1108 sends a request asking how many of those flights Flexjet operated? When they get the answer, "none," maybe then they'll think to ask how many were operated by Jet Solutions, LLC? Laddie seems to have forgotten that Flex doesn't have a certificate and thus can't do any charter. Those Flex planes and pilots would had to have been under operational control of JS.

 

[V1 Rotate]

From what I've been told, a lot of mornings FLOPs dispatch reliability is only 70% by 7am. With those numbers, why would one be surprised that their owners had to placed on other aircraft? If not Flexjet, via Jet Solutions (who is the 135 certificate holder for us), then it would've been some other outside charter company. Either way, someone besides FLOPs pilots would've been fly those owners. You might as well keep it within the DAC family if there are Flex crews available.

 

[DirtyBeech]

I think their contract limits how much charter can be done, and there may be some ramifications about separate companies even though we know it's a smoke screen.

 

[BlueNose]

I think their contract limits how much charter can be done, and there may be some ramifications about separate companies even though we know it's a smoke screen.

You might think that, but it seems 1108 neglected that small point in negotiating the last contract. There's no limit to charter sell-off, and no ramifications if it exceeds a certain number or percentage (like, say, in the NJ contract that they already had for a template).

So when the company gets rid of its core fleet and declares a bunch of pilots surplus, it can use Flex planes and pilots (being operated, of course, by Solutions, which is not an affiliate company) without limit. (facepalm) DOH!

Can't see why wouldn't the Flex pilots want these guys protecting them?

 

[chief9404]

If you look at how much KR wants to screw with his low (and I mean low) salary pilots just wait for what he has in plan for Flex. It won't be sudden, but slowly he will chip away at everything.

 

[azcz10]

Do fractionals have pass privileges for commuting to and from work? (are you able to fly as a stand-by non-revenue passenger on the airlines or ride in the flight deck?)

 

[V1 Rotate]

Do fractionals have pass privileges for commuting to and from work? (are you able to fly as a stand-by non-revenue passenger on the airlines or ride in the flight deck?)

Not at Flexjet. I think Citation Shares had agreements with a couple of carriers, and maybe NetJets also, but not with any of the majors I don't think? Anyone else?

 

[GooseHZ]

Bluenose.....your wrong. There are limits. But hey let's give KR and his boys no CBA to abide by.....yes that's the ticket.

 

[Club ORD FO]

For what its worth, when the Flex pilots found out were were doing FLOPS charters, a lot of questions and concerns were raised. We were assured that the flights are supplemental lift that would have gone to an outside company if we didn't do them, and that we were not taking flights away from FLOPS that a FLOPS plane and pilots could have done.

 

[GooseHZ]

But...I thought we where two different companies? Please tell me you guys can see how KR is playing this game....please. The Flex guys where doing their jobs as the pro's they are. With out a CBA or stewards to fall back on for support the only thing to do is fly your trips....you have no protection. I know that no FLOPS pilots hold any ill will toward you guys.

 

[BlueNose]

Bluenose.....your wrong. There are limits. But hey let's give KR and his boys no CBA to abide by.....yes that's the ticket.

Well, I haven't been able to find any. I see where it says that brand partner flights count as charter sell off, but no limits on how much sell off there is. If you can find those limits in the contract, please point them out to me, I'd love to be wrong on this one.

As for the 2nd point, you're setting up a false dilemma - either the contract's great or we shouldn't have one. How about (c) the leaders should have thought of that basic point and negotiated it. Instead, it looks like they left KR a loophole big enough to drive a Flexjet through. It may be over and done, but I never heard any of the 1108 leadership even admit their oversight. That might be a start, and they might look less like politicians and more like leaders. Just my $.02

 

[luckydog]

I have to wonder what will be the response if/when a Flexjet sell off is covered by a FLOPS flight?

 

[dime line]

either the contract's great or we shouldn't have one.

Are you serious, really?

 

[Rubber Ducky]

You might think that, but it seems 1108 neglected that small point in negotiating the last contract. There's no limit to charter sell-off, and no ramifications if it exceeds a certain number or percentage (like, say, in the NJ contract that they already had for a template).

Don't want to hijack this thread, so call any furloughed NJ pilot and ask how that contract language has worked out for them.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I have to wonder what will be the response if/when a Flexjet sell off is covered by a FLOPS flight?

We have outside charter companies flying our owners almost every day. A certain percentage is negotiated into most owners' contracts. If that flying can be done under the DAC umbrella by FLOPs guys, then why not? Doesn't hurt my feelings.

 

[CL300Pilot]

I have to wonder what will be the response if/when a Flexjet sell off is covered by a FLOPS flight?

This has already happened Lucky. We had multiple trips covered over the holiday under charter by FLOPS aircraft. At least, that is what we were told and I heard from some line guys.