FLASH, This just in,...NWA and DAL pilots

[~~~^~~~]

DAL pilots, or management?

 

[Occam's Razor]

I don't have a clue what the management drones are up too.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Occam:

You could be correct, but politically I can not find it to be a credible report given other known facts. If true, the USAPA spilt is going to look like a Girl Scout Bake Sale in comparison.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Agree with everything except the implication that all narrowbody flying is in danger. It is not, unless it is sold for a cookie. I think priority number 1 for every upcoming contract should be to recapture any jet over 50 seats. That is more important than hourly rate raises, night overrides, per diem bumps and rigs. If the flying is gone, the rest of the contract doesn't mean anything. The more flying you outsource, the more pressure there is to outsource. I am against the notion of any kind of a B scale, but if the only way to get the 51+ seaters back on the mainline seniority lists is market based pay and work rule side letters, it has to be done. B scales are bad. Outsourcing is worse.

Translation: We mainline pilots will undercut the industry leading regional rates to "recapture" the flying.....Thanks "brother".......

Once again....this union is a joke....This is going to get ugly....

 

[Superpilot92]

Occam:

You could be correct, but politically I can not find it to be a credible report given other known facts. If true, the USAPA spilt is going to look like a Girl Scout Bake Sale in comparison .

:bomb: :angryfire :uzi:

 

[tomgoodman]

New pressure applied?

Perhaps management recently showed the MECs (in confidence), a juicy new carrot and/or a huge new stick. Could that have changed the political situation?

 

[Superpilot92]

Translation: We mainline pilots will undercut the industry leading regional rates to "recapture" the flying.....Thanks "brother".......

Once again....this union is a joke....This is going to get ugly....

Is that kinda on par with being the smartest kid on the short bus? Protection for Mainline jobs is better for the industry as a whole no matter how much you justify staying at the regionals. You made your decision based on whats best for you and thats honorable but outsourcing mainline flying is bad for the industry and pay in general.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Is that kinda on par with being the smartest kid on the short bus?

.....well the "smartest kids on the short bus" are making pretty good coin considering the industry....130K at the top end of the "short bus".....The mainline folks seem ready to undercut that to protect their jobs.....I guess there are whores at every level.......

 

[Superpilot92]

.....well the "smartest kids on the short bus" are making pretty good coin considering the industry....130K at the top end of the "short bus".....The mainline folks seem ready to undercut that to protect their jobs.....I guess there are whores at every level.......

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? The majors have been undercut by the regionals for years. You, Me and everyone at the regionals have undercut the majors. The kicker is that the fault for that happening falls onto the pilots at the major carriers that let the cat out of the bag with allowing the jets to go to the regionals in the first place. The point i am making is we need to stop it and get the cat back in the bag. You may be making decent money now but what about your FO's are they making good money? How long did it take you to get to the point of making decent money? I was a CA at a "good" regional and i didnt make above 80k. So you either have been with your company a very long time, or you are a check airman with a pay overide that works ALOT. Or your full of shat but i will give you the benefit of the doubt for discussion purposes. Outsourcing the flying does nothing but divide us as pilots and that is what drives down the pay.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Perhaps management recently showed the MECs (in confidence), a juicy new carrot and/or a huge new stick. Could that have changed the political situation?

Perhaps within the MEC, but not at the line pilot level.

A course reversal, regardless of sound logic and reason, would destroy credibility and trust. Already there was a halfway organized run on the MEC. Take the goodies off the table, along with job protections and the fear of fleet reductions and it is a highly undesireable position for any ALPA politician. A very quick way to be outside the circle of trust.

We don't know if Occam's bomb is real, a Hollywood prop, or wishful thinking on the part of the NWA MEC.

Both sides are pretty well painted in a corner.

Now management on the other hand.... although Occam says this is a MEC thing.... hmm, still need a lot more information....

 

[~~~^~~~]

The majors have been undercut by the regionals for years.

That is because the mainline pilots drew a circle around that flying that excluded the pilots performing it. A union's primary job is to bring folks together. By keeping us separate and allowing alter ego competition, we have reaped exactly what we have sown.

 

[Superpilot92]

That is because the mainline pilots drew a circle around that flying that excluded the pilots performing it. A union's primary job is to bring folks together. By keeping us separate and allowing alter ego competition, we have reaped exactly what we have sown.

You did read my entire post didnt you? Re-Read it and you will see i just said what you posted in responce to my post :laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

So maybe I'm agreeing with you.

 

[Superpilot92]

So maybe I'm agreeing with you.

Ok good now we are getting somewhere I just wanted to make sure because you quoted only the part that made my post look negative and i wanted to clarify that that was just the beginning of my well orchestrated post :beer:

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot:

What Joe will correctly point out is that NWA and Delta's rates on similar equipment undercuts ASA's contract rates. Sad, but true. He's got us there.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot:

What Joe will correctly point out is that NWA and Delta's rates on similar equipment undercuts ASA's contract rates. Sad, but true. He's got us there.

Oh you mean the concessionary rates? So when those go up will his go up? He didn't get us there my friend. His company and our old companies thrived after 9/11 where NWA/DAL took massive hits. Compare those rates and he has no argument. Plus had mainline not given up that flying his company wouldn't exist in its present form, correct? two sides to every coin.

 

[NuGuy]

Perhaps within the MEC, but not at the line pilot level.

A course reversal, regardless of sound logic and reason, would destroy credibility and trust. Already there was a halfway organized run on the MEC. Take the goodies off the table, along with job protections and the fear of fleet reductions and it is a highly undesireable position for any ALPA politician. A very quick way to be outside the circle of trust.

We don't know if Occam's bomb is real, a Hollywood prop, or wishful thinking on the part of the NWA MEC.

Both sides are pretty well painted in a corner.

Now management on the other hand.... although Occam says this is a MEC thing.... hmm, still need a lot more information....

Heyas Fins,

Occam's reports are correct. There have been "talks" going during the week. Management's job has been done for weeks, and they just need to make a phone call.

You are right that both sides are painted in the corner. But the sad fact is that this merger has been planned out for a long time, and a few pissy, whiney pilots are not going to stop it, despite what goodwill "promises" were made.

Word came down from the respective companies:"this thing is going to happen...period. So you guys can either get onboard or get run over." This is why you see an abrupt about face and the two groups meeting again. Union politics at this point are irrelevant.

I suspect that any agreement will split the difference between the last two respective positions...just like most good negotiations do. Each side will be able to save face by bringing something back, there will be a hue and cry from the vocal minority, but the huge silent majority at each airline will see the writing on the wall, and vote the thing in.

Then we can get on with the business of being pissed at each other for the rest of our careers, with NWA guys wearing buttons that say "Keep Delta their Delta" and cutsey little stickers on the DAL flight bags that have a Viking with a circle and slash.

In the end, it won't matter one iota what any of us thinks.

Nu

 

[Draginass]

Spoken like a true management shill . . . . take whatever is shoved down your throat and like it.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

...but the huge silent majority at each airline will see the writing on the wall, and vote the thing in.

I know of a great may folks at Delta who had no plans to "rubber stamp" the original plan (pay raises of 7/4/4/4% seemed pretty low, even with some "equity").

I bet even fewer will vote "yes" if the new agreement offers less.

Then Delta can raise the bar over AA's, SWA's, and CAL's new contracts next year...the way it's supposed to work. Beats settling for a concessionary contract going forward.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am just curious if the 9's will be parked. If they are we are in store for lots of furloughs at this new airline