Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

FLASH, This just in,...NWA and DAL pilots

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Apples and Oranges.

Stock swap is internal.

Wall Street determines the value of the stock...hence the value of the airline.

No, not apples and oranges. A buyout by DL of NW for say $22 would cause a large movement of NWA stock toward the $22 level. A stock swap transaction will most likely cause a bump in the pathetically beaten down stock price, but I wouldn't say through the roof. Depends what the street thinks the combined company can earn, price of oil, economy, chances of the deal actually being approved etc. I don't see any airline stock bringing a high price with a bad economy and oil at an all-time high, merger or not.

On another note, here's what arbitration gets you today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwxpm6tqK0

Wouldn't it be great...........
 
Last edited:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/business/delta/stories/2008/03/21/Delta_0323.html

Delta execs confident airline can weather storms
Whole airline industry buffeted by rising oil prices, shifting economy

By JIM THARPE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 03/23/08
If you want to feel some real turbulence these days, don't get on an airplane. Just buckle up and step inside the boardroom of any major airline.
[ Submit your comments below. ]
John Spink/AJC
Is Delta on the rise? The airline is now better positioned to handle factors it can't control, one analyst said.
DELTA NEWS
Latest Headlines:

More Delta News
More Business News
Business Photo Galleries

Fuel prices have soared, stock prices have plunged, and analysts say there's no end in sight to the volatility ahead for carriers like Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines, Georgia's largest private employer.
Just in the last year, Delta has emerged from bankruptcy, picked a new CEO, entered into now-stalled merger talks with Northwest Airlines to create the world's-largest airline, watched its stock price get cut in half and — just last week — announced it will trim 2,000 employees and park some of its jets to reduce costs.
Delta President Ed Bastian said the airline's latest moves show "a willingness to take decisive action quickly" in the face of a sudden economic shift.
"We want to be on the front end, taking advantage of it, not being victimized by it," Bastian said in an interview with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
"Whoever can move with speed will win."
But much is — and always has been — out of airline executives' control. For decades, airlines have suffered from the vagaries of winter storms, fuel prices and economic downturns.
They have reacted by raising ticket prices, parking aircraft and eliminating jobs and routes.

Boom/bust cycle
Still, executives have never been able to completely sidestep the bad times.
"The airlines are boom and bust, boom and bust and boom and bust," said John Heimlich, chief economist with the Air Transport Association. "The problem is the booms are small, and the busts are big."
The current crisis has been sparked by inflated crude oil prices topping $100 a barrel — jet fuel is about $35 higher — just as the economy hit some serious headwinds.
The nationwide fallout could be pronounced. Airlines are cutting less profitable routes.
And ticket prices will continue to head higher. Some carriers could fail.
"If this is sustained over a few years, you will see fewer, larger players over time, and we could possibly lose one or two hubs," said Heimlich, whose trade organization represents major carriers like Delta.
Merrill Lynch & Co. analyst Michael Linenberg recently lowered his forecast for U.S. airline earnings.
Previously he forecast profits of $1.7 billion for 2008 for the nation's nine biggest carriers. Soaring fuel costs forced him to revise that to a potential $1.5 billion loss for the year.
Delta, which employs 25,000 people in metro Atlanta, is moving quickly to make sure it is one of the survivors, company officials say.
The fortunes of metro Atlanta and major portions of the Southeast are directly tied to Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport and Delta, which accounts for about 70 percent of the airport's flights.
Hartsfield-Jackson, besides being the world's busiest airport with 86 million passengers a year, has an estimated $23 billion annual impact on the region.
Bastian said Delta, the nation's third-largest carrier, learned a lot of lessons from its 2005 bankruptcy that will help it weather the current downturn. He said it's still possible Delta can eke out a profit this year, despite a slowing economy and high fuel prices. In the run-up to its 2005 bankruptcy, he said, Delta saw fuel rise from $30 a barrel to $60 a barrel in the space of two or three years.
"We've now had that same effect in six months," Bastian said. "We have to respond aggressively and quickly to right-size the airline in that higher-cost environment."

International flights

Delta's game plans call for reducing unprofitable domestic flights while increasing its international footprint.
International flights are generally more profitable because there is less competition, and the flights are much longer, which means the airlines usually average more money for every mile a passenger travels.
Delta will launch inaugural flights to Shanghai's airport at the end of the month and to London's Heathrow a few weeks later.
By summer, Bastian said, international flights will comprise about 40 percent of Delta's revenue.
"There's no plan to pull anything down internationally," he said. "If we see economic duress spread to other parts of the world, we will. But at the present time, our bookings are strong, and our unit revenues are up 10 percent year-over-year, despite the fact that capacity is growing at 15 percent."
Most carriers, including Delta, have recently increased fuel surcharges to offset higher costs. Delta and seven other American or European carriers recently added $20 to their fuel surcharges on trans-Atlantic flights, boosting them to as much as $242, said Tom Parsons, chief executive of Bestfares.com.
But those increases can continue for only so long before cash-strapped consumers and businesses begin to cut back on discretionary spending.
There are already growing signs of stress.
Low-cost carrier Aloha Airlines declared bankruptcy Thursday for the second time in three years. Aloha is the second-largest Hawaii-based airline, with about 3,500 employees. Aviation experts say more bankruptcies could be on the horizon.
US Airways CEO Doug Parker has lamented that the entire industry is "a mess." And Northwest Airlines CEO Doug Steenland told employees earlier this month that the Minnesota-based carrier might have to further shrink its operations.
Colorado-based airline analyst Mike Boyd said airlines like Delta are better positioned to deal with downturns than they have been in the past. They now own "big chunks of their fleets" and can park airplanes cheaply, he said. And airlines are now pulling back capacity, even while demand is still strong.
"We see an airline industry better postured than it's ever been to get through tough times," Boyd said.
But surviving the downturn will have consequences.
"If it continues, you will see higher fares," he said. "You'll also see the bar raised as to where the air transportation system can fly. The Macons and the Augustas of the world might have to be dropped out of the system or people might have to pay a lot more money to fly there."


Whoops...I guess Delta is following the classic 'shrink the airline during bad times plan'.

Not so at NW no job losses here.

Interesting.
 
Whoops...I guess Delta is following the classic 'shrink the airline during bad times plan'.

Not so at NW no job losses here.

Interesting.

Heyas Redmeat:
I guess things are great at NWA, right?

•Northwest Airlines. CEO Doug Steenland two weeks ago called oil prices, which were then at $105 a barrel, a "serious budget breaker," because an average annual price above $100 a barrel would add $1.7 billion to Northwest's fuel bill this year. That's more than double its 2007 pretax profit of $764 million.

I wonder how long before NWA starts chopping headcount?

You're starting to sound like your little greenbook rookie pal, detoilet320!

737
 
Heyas Redmeat:
I guess things are great at NWA, right?

•Northwest Airlines. CEO Doug Steenland two weeks ago called oil prices, which were then at $105 a barrel, a "serious budget breaker," because an average annual price above $100 a barrel would add $1.7 billion to Northwest's fuel bill this year. That's more than double its 2007 pretax profit of $764 million.

I wonder how long before NWA starts chopping headcount?

You're starting to sound like your little greenbook rookie pal, detoilet320!

737

So he stated the obvious, still not cuts for NWA as of yet. The good news is none of the cuts at DAL are pilots.
 
So he stated the obvious, still not cuts for NWA as of yet.

Exactly, as of yet.......
I hope for your guys' sake not at all.

The good news is none of the cuts at DAL are pilots.
I agree.:beer:

Anderson is being pro active, something never done in the history of this airline......Years past, the ceo's have been very reactionary, and its nice for a change to see someone in charge, actually being in charge!

737
 
Anderson is very proactive, he has no choice. Another trip thru BK is not going to be succesful (Liquidation likely). The ship is filling with water, he has no choice.
 
Exactly, as of yet.......
:rolleyes: I wrote it that way on purpose because believe it or not some of us are in touch with reality.;) You proved my point by trying to point out the negative in anything to do with NWA.
737


:nuts:
 
All airlines are in a heap of ********************. I can assure you if other airlines are cutting 10%, NWA will cut 15-20%. They have always been a very conservative airline, which over cuts during bad times and under expands during the good. I think we will see a parking of the 9s after the summer(maybe before) and a F you grieve it from mgmt. Any grievance we win over rj ratios(and we will win) will be peanuts vs the savings. I also think AA will park 15-20% of the 80s. Dal, more than have been announced so far etc. This is going to be an ugly, bumpy ride. JMHO:(



 
All airlines are in a heap of ********************. I can assure you if other airlines are cutting 10%, NWA will cut 15-20%. They have always been a very conservative airline, which over cuts during bad times and under expands during the good. I think we will see a parking of the 9s after the summer(maybe before) and a F you grieve it from mgmt. Any grievance we win over rj ratios(and we will win) will be peanuts vs the savings. I also think AA will park 15-20% of the 80s. Dal, more than have been announced so far etc. This is going to be an ugly, bumpy ride. JMHO:(


NWA has already started cutting . Take a look at the weekend flying out of BOS or say BDL. This started in Feb, they just don't make announcements..
 
There is another angle to this. Some of the aircraft cited to be cut are listed on the basis of their lease renewals. If Delta has success negotiating favorable lease rates the airplanes will stay in service. This press announcement had the effect of showing management's intent to be proactive and also was a shot across the bow for those holding leases that they need to be reasonable, or Delta will turn the aircraft back in.

Since some of these jets are the 757's, 767's and 767-400s (which is not confirmed) these airplanes are jets Delta currently intends to operate at the right price. The maintenance guys just say the 88's are going to get parked.

I said the 88's were at risk months ago on this board and was attacked for it. You do not see any CRJ700, or 900's getting parked, do you?

As written so many times before, the Delta and NWA guys need to get the RJ flying back to mainline as part of any merger discussions (at least the large RJ's that are MORE efficient than mainline jets). Unfortunately no one cares - and it was not even an agenda item.
 
Last edited:
There is another angle to this. Some of the aircraft cited to be cut are listed on the basis of their lease renewals. If Delta has success negotiating favorable lease rates the airplanes will stay in service. This press announcement had the effect of showing management's intent to be proactive and also was a shot across the bow for those holding leases that they need to be reasonable, or Delta will turn the aircraft back in.

Since some of these jets are the 757's, 767's and 767-400s (which is not confirmed) these airplanes are jets Delta currently intends to operate at the right price. The maintenance guys just say the 88's are going to get parked.

I said the 88's were at risk months ago on this board and was attacked for it. You do not see any CRJ700, or 900's getting parked, do you?

As written so many times before, the Delta and NWA guys need to get the RJ flying back to mainline as part of any merger discussions (at least the large RJ's that are MORE efficient than mainline jets). Unfortunately no one cares - and it was not even an agenda item.

I only heard 15 MD-80's and 5 older 757's were going to be parked. Maybe kept if the leases were renegotiated low enough. Where did you hear 767-400's being parked if the leases weren't lowered? How is worldwide demand for that airframe right now?
 
As he stated it is unconfirmed, But the mtc guys seem to know all this stuff. I was talking to a few last weeks and there are a few 400's that have leases coming up.
As fins said it is just a possibility. If these leasers want more money DAL will just give them back, plain and simple. Kind of like our passengers only flying on the lowest fare. Two can play at this game
 
Iron City:

I think the likely scenario that somewhere in between 0 and 15 MD88's get sold. The 767-400 rumor was not confirmed, but if the prices on the 767-400 are not right, the price on a 777 might be better.

It bothers me that there is such a gap between the 76 seat RJ and the 142 seat MD88, with fewer 88's the pressure will be even greater to outsource mainline flying.

The mainline guys really need to look at the inevitable re-fleeting of the 100 to 150 seat jet market. For a whole host of reasons the MD88 (or DC9 or 31* Airbus product) are going to be the loser and those jobs will go the way of the 737-200 positions.
 
Last edited:
As written so many times before, the Delta and NWA guys need to get the RJ flying back to mainline as part of any merger discussions (at least the large RJ's that are MORE efficient than mainline jets). Unfortunately no one cares - and it was not even an agenda item.

I agree completely!:beer:
 
Anderson is very proactive, he has no choice. Another trip thru BK is not going to be succesful (Liquidation likely).
Keep showing how stupid you are, at least you're not dissapointing!

The ship is filling with water, he has no choice.
No more so than that little pisshead of a brain!
Please go back to midwest chucky! I realize that with the possibility of a nwa/dal merger you're nervous, being an FNG!

737
 
Last edited:
Otherwise Agree.:beer:

That forcast is based on our model as of today...not what mgmt is putting out in the very near future.The nines were going to come to ATL....I know that for sure. Now who knows?DAL is still running classes and will be doing so unitl early May. On hold after that.
 
That forcast is based on our model as of today...not what mgmt is putting out in the very near future.The nines were going to come to ATL....I know that for sure. Now who knows?DAL is still running classes and will be doing so unitl early May. On hold after that.

Thats great news, NWA is running classes through July the rest of the people hired supposedly are in a pool. Either way this goes down both companies should be in decent positions. Good luck
 
Iron City:

I think the likely scenario that somewhere in between 0 and 15 MD88's get sold. The 767-400 rumor was not confirmed, but if the prices on the 767-400 are not right, the price on a 777 might be better.

It bothers me that there is such a gap between the 76 seat RJ and the 142 seat MD88, with fewer 88's the pressure will be even greater to outsource mainline flying.

The mainline guys really need to look at the inevitable re-fleeting of the 100 to 150 seat jet market. For a whole host of reasons the MD88 (or DC9 or 31* Airbus product) are going to be the loser and those jobs will go the way of the 737-200 positions.

Agree with everything except the implication that all narrowbody flying is in danger. It is not, unless it is sold for a cookie. I think priority number 1 for every upcoming contract should be to recapture any jet over 50 seats. That is more important than hourly rate raises, night overrides, per diem bumps and rigs. If the flying is gone, the rest of the contract doesn't mean anything. The more flying you outsource, the more pressure there is to outsource. I am against the notion of any kind of a B scale, but if the only way to get the 51+ seaters back on the mainline seniority lists is market based pay and work rule side letters, it has to be done. B scales are bad. Outsourcing is worse.
 
Both sides hooked-up today. DAL wants to re-engage.

The talks on Thursday and Friday didn't get anything done, but the next meeting should.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top