First SLI thread of the day

[higney85]

XJhawk- you may want to actually read the LOA in the contract. The date is changed, longevity for pay is not. Dues came out starting on class date +1. So I had dues coming out in September (while on first year pay) but didn't hit year 2 pay/benefits until November (checkride). This is all clear in the LOA. The list submitted contained the same info from the "certified" list when the process started, only difference is "column G" was removed which was "checkride date" which left class date as our only date (first day of class) which exactly what LOA2.V stipulated and was allowed under the last bullet point of the process/protocol agreement when this all started. It was a known variable and Mesaba and Colgan contest it because it doesn't benefit them. On the PCL side we are now all on exactly the same page for respective start dates. Nobodyis getting "an edge" but it is beneficial to others to "dock" a group in the event DOH is anywhere associated with the award method. It's up to Bloch, but there was no "last minute carpet yank" going on. If anything this issue wasn't realized by others as it was agreed to in negotiations. One of the last pieces of the JCBA was the hire date/longevity. 9E pilots have the date changed (mainly for sli parity and travel benes) but we did not get longevity adjustment for pay/vacation/401k match. The 9E MEC let it go in order for all to get the contract (although the company made it very clear that we had ZERO chance of getting the change due to costs). You can source me- I was in the room and a voting member on that.

 

[Flyer1015]

You know, if this is really as easy as you make it sound, then Bloch would have this dispute cleared up. As of right now, he has not, which means it's still in consideration and anything could be game.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

yeah the guy "DoingTime" is just pulling crap out of the air-where is he getting this crap? Do your research and find out if Mesaba has changed any pay during training over the last 30 years. ANyone on our list was a full employee and fully paid all through training. Period. It is not Mesaba holding this up, it is guys like DoingTime and their MEC/SLI committee who just make crap up, lie, try to screw over Colgan and Mesaba (don't even tell me that is false). You Pinnacle guys can go ahead and try and change your DOH in your minds, but I am sure a company like Pinnacle is not going to change it because it would cost them a lot of money. Let me ask you this-I really do not know. Were you paying ALPA dues when you were not an employee and not getting paid before your hire date? When you proposed to change your DOH, did you also propose to pay back dues for that time? Oh you did not? Then you are all not in good standing-

Now there's a question I believe I can answer definitively...where is crap usually pulled from?

 

[xjhawk]

higney- I see what you are saying but the information I have gotten-I was not in the room-is that it was only for travel benefits as it cost too much as per the Pinnacle to give you an adjusted official DOH. I was always for that adjustment you talk about to keep everyone even, but hearing the things I have heard-mainly the final proposal to screw so many people that pinnacle put forth-and hearing that making everyone even was not agreed upon-hearing that there were issues with the dates giving more longevity to 9E pilots-and just the general talk from most of the pinnacle pilots who would say to my face they want our planes, want our seniority, who wrongly think they bought us-who wants to screw me for their benefit at the expense of my family-I say screw your 3 months-serves you right. Oh and if it were as easy as you say-as someone said, it would be done by now.

But in the end, you may get your 3 months-none of us know even if DOH will be given in any way. But all I want to know is why 9E did not choose DOH when it benefits so many 9E pilots? Greed-I hope that was evident to Bloch-

 

[suupah]

higney- I see what you are saying but the information I have gotten-I was not in the room-is that it was only for travel benefits as it cost too much as per the Pinnacle to give you an adjusted official DOH. I was always for that adjustment you talk about to keep everyone even, but hearing the things I have heard-mainly the final proposal to screw so many people that pinnacle put forth-and hearing that making everyone even was not agreed upon-hearing that there were issues with the dates giving more longevity to 9E pilots-and just the general talk from most of the pinnacle pilots who would say to my face they want our planes, want our seniority, who wrongly think they bought us-who wants to screw me for their benefit at the expense of my family-I say screw your 3 months-serves you right. Oh and if it were as easy as you say-as someone said, it would be done by now.

But in the end, you may get your 3 months-none of us know even if DOH will be given in any way. But all I want to know is why 9E did not choose DOH when it benefits so many 9E pilots? Greed-I hope that was evident to Bloch-

dude, seriously. The PCL proposal should not cloud your view of what is fair. For them to have the same DOH methodology as the rest of us is just plain fair. It is how it should be.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

higney- I see what you are saying but the information I have gotten-I was not in the room-is that it was only for travel benefits as it cost too much as per the Pinnacle to give you an adjusted official DOH. I was always for that adjustment you talk about to keep everyone even, but hearing the things I have heard-mainly the final proposal to screw so many people that pinnacle put forth-and hearing that making everyone even was not agreed upon-hearing that there were issues with the dates giving more longevity to 9E pilots-and just the general talk from most of the pinnacle pilots who would say to my face they want our planes, want our seniority, who wrongly think they bought us-who wants to screw me for their benefit at the expense of my family-I say screw your 3 months-serves you right. Oh and if it were as easy as you say-as someone said, it would be done by now.

But in the end, you may get your 3 months-none of us know even if DOH will be given in any way. But all I want to know is why 9E did not choose DOH when it benefits so many 9E pilots? Greed-I hope that was evident to Bloch-

Hey XJHawk,

How long have you been with Mesaba? Not trying to nail you down on DOH or anything....just ball-park, so I can try an understand your mindset with this SLI. Thanks

 

[bri5150]

dude, seriously. The PCL proposal should not cloud your view of what is fair. For them to have the same DOH methodology as the rest of us is just plain fair. It is how it should be.

I think his point is that talking about stapling and other such integration theories is just plain unfair. Everthing in the Pinnacle arsonel (sp?) has been thrown at Mesaba, now there is an issue that may actually have some type of legal merit, and everyone thinks that is unfair. I still agree that the DOH's should be changed to when they started class (because that's fair), but I certainly see XJHawks point. You have thrown everything at us. Why should we not throw everything we can back at you? It's not our fault you haven't faught for DOH at the beginning of class.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Hey XJHawk,

How long have you been with Mesaba? Not trying to nail you down on DOH or anything....just ball-park, so I can try an understand your mindset with this SLI. Thanks

I am pretty sure he is in the 6-7 year range.

 

[xjhawk]

right at 8 years. I did the math and I would be fine with DOH or relative. I also looked at how would benefit most and I think DOH would benefit more Pinnacle than Mesaba, and more Mesaba than Colgan (obviously). I tend to think that since Colgan is getting such great pay raises and QOL in the new contract I think they can give some in SLI-and their fear of super senior guys coming east is not a factor. They will not go there. The Colgan Fo's would be the ones who might not get the quick upgrade as they were expecting. But if there is a lot of attrition for the majors hiring in the next five years, it will not be a factor.

There you have it, that is where I am coming from. It is not up to me, it is up to Mr Bloch.

 

[mesaba13]

I am at around 12 years (23% relative) and of course would like DOH. I am sure the 9E guys with better than 23% relative would not like this. I don't blame them but many in that group that have better relative, have less years than me and most probably didn't have a career expectation of flying a 900 in any of the three XJ bases. These guys would not be hurt if I were to be senior to them with the SLI because I and others could have already went to the 200 and been senior, so why go after integration.

I don't think DOH would screw most of the Colgan guys as bad as some think. They have some guys with 15 years in that could hold some pretty nice jet captain positions but their first guys would not come into the SLI list until around 100-150 down the new list. This again seems fair because they were a small turboprop operation and can't expect to be senior 900 captains just because they were senior flying tuboprops at poor wages. As far as the "nearly" street type captains at Colgan that have very few years in, I dont think the outlook for someone in their shoes is ever very good. They are perpetually bumped down for their career.

Many at 9E use the "Saabs going away" arguement in career expectations, but if they are to use that arguement than they must also balance that against their poor contract and working conditions as well as the Mesaba Flow though. The flow though alone prior to the merger was virtually guranteed to cause constant attrition in the bottom 85% of our company. We know that the Flow was cancelled after the merger announcement but PRIOR to the merger date we had the letter from a big shot VP at Delta welcoming the XJ guys and that was the expectation.