First SLI thread of the day

[higney85]

If the mou guys end up being only shown as XJ guys things will be interesting since we now have a scope violation on property. We will all be one family post sli but it now sets a precedent that a Mesaba guy was flying a pinnacle aircraft. May not matter now but the new hires have a ripe grievance, mgmt has a case for using mou guys in the future (can you imagine this applied in a comair merger- hypothetical) and this mou will probably be given such a negative light that it won't be used in the future.

These issues reach for deeper than simple emotions for a higher number. There are implications politically, professionally, and personally between pilots. Bloch has all these factors to weigh. Then once he issues his award it will be interesting to see if the threatened actions of some come true.

I predict this is the calm before the storm.

 

[bri5150]

If the mou guys end up being only shown as XJ guys things will be interesting since we now have a scope violation on property. We will all be one family post sli but it now sets a precedent that a Mesaba guy was flying a pinnacle aircraft. May not matter now but the new hires have a ripe grievance, mgmt has a case for using mou guys in the future (can you imagine this applied in a comair merger- hypothetical) and this mou will probably be given such a negative light that it won't be used in the future.

These issues reach for deeper than simple emotions for a higher number. There are implications politically, professionally, and personally between pilots. Bloch has all these factors to weigh. Then once he issues his award it will be interesting to see if the threatened actions of some come true.

I predict this is the calm before the storm.

Higney, the precedent is already set. Pinnacle is flying an XJ 900 right now. I don't think it is scope violation because the old contracts are gonezo. I do agree though. When this award comes out, I fear there is going to be a lot of issues to sort through. I will state right now that I will accept whatever the list says, deal with it, and move on. I will not support legal actions by any MEC (unless it comes out that straight up wrong information was provided to Mr. Bloch on any of the lists).

 

[i fly boxes]

Which 900 is pinnacle flying?

 

[bri5150]

Which 900 is pinnacle flying?

600LR or xj #950.

 

[i fly boxes]

600LR or xj #950.

Oh that plane that went fom freedom to comair to pinnacle to mesaba and now back to pinnacle. Go delta! Has there ever been a unmerger? I want nwa back

 

[bri5150]

Oh that plane that went fom freedom to comair to pinnacle to mesaba and now back to pinnacle. Go delta! Has there ever been a unmerger? I want nwa back

Did you think you would ever say that five years ago? I know I wouldn't have. But since then I have had to spend a lot of money finishing my four year degree originally so I was ready to flow to Delta, now it's to get the hell out of the regionals in general. I used to not care if I was stuck at Mesaba making 100k flying a 900. Now, I can't get out soon enough.

 

[CptMurf]

If the mou guys end up being only shown as XJ guys things will be interesting since we now have a scope violation on property. We will all be one family post sli but it now sets a precedent that a Mesaba guy was flying a pinnacle aircraft. May not matter now but the new hires have a ripe grievance, mgmt has a case for using mou guys in the future (can you imagine this applied in a comair merger- hypothetical) and this mou will probably be given such a negative light that it won't be used in the future.

These issues reach for deeper than simple emotions for a higher number. There are implications politically, professionally, and personally between pilots. Bloch has all these factors to weigh. Then once he issues his award it will be interesting to see if the threatened actions of some come true.

I predict this is the calm before the storm.

I doubt it's a scope violation because we are now under one contract. The scope provision you quote no longer exists. These pilots are merely being held in their current provisions by the bypass policy of our combined contract. They can do that for 90 days, then these individuals would have to start training for their new positions. This is why our DFO is asking these individuals what they would like to do. If they stay at their current positions, they may have to forfeit their XJ seniority. If they elect to go to LGA, the bypass would remain until the bitter end, or the SLI is complete. I believe everyone, including the company, is waiting to see how the SLI wraps up. If it takes too long they will be forced to start training and move them.

The active status, is in Blochs hands. People keep saying that traditionally furloughed pilots are put after the active pilots, and that is true. Except, no one has ever had a MOU like this. We are in uncharted territory. Bloch could rule in any number of ways on this, not just how it has been in the past. I believe you alluded to this earlier. The success or failure of this MOU may come back to haunt us later in our careers. If it works well, we may have some protections if our future employer merges. If it fails, it will be status quo, and good luck in a future merger.

One more wrench is the reinstatement rights, these do not have to go in seniority order. If the bypass runs out, and these individuals go to training, and then a subsequent vacancy opens up on their previous aircraft, they can be reinstated to that position out of seniority order. This lasts an additional 90 days.

 

[CptMurf]

Did you think you would ever say that five years ago? I know I wouldn't have. But since then I have had to spend a lot of money finishing my four year degree originally so I was ready to flow to Delta, now it's to get the hell out of the regionals in general. I used to not care if I was stuck at Mesaba making 100k flying a 900. Now, I can't get out soon enough.

I never planned on being here 12 years, my career expectation here was about 5.
I never though Express, with 300 pilots, would get all those CRJs. (I was cocky once too)
I never thought a contract we fought for in 02-04, would be the best compensation in a merger 9 years later. 4 years after it's original expiration, and with multiple forced concessions.
I never thought that as profitable XJ was, that it would be forced into BK. ESP in 6 weeks.
I never though being wholly owned was such a bad position.
I never thought an LOA that was for the greater good of the pilots involved, would be turned around as a negative integration method by people that were in middle school when it was signed.
I never thought that I would lose seniority to someone that had the same career expectation as me, so that they can get the PIC time and interview alongside me for a position that I have been forced to wait for by outside economic and political forces. (guess this is yet to be seen, but I'm gearing up mentally for it)

 

[avrorj-85]

I never planned on being here 12 years, my career expectation here was about 5.
I never though Express, with 300 pilots, would get all those CRJs. (I was cocky once too)
I never thought a contract we fought for in 02-04, would be the best compensation in a merger 9 years later. 4 years after it's original expiration, and with multiple forced concessions.
I never thought that as profitable XJ was, that it would be forced into BK. ESP in 6 weeks.
I never though being wholly owned was such a bad position.
I never thought an LOA that was for the greater good of the pilots involved, would be turned around as a negative integration method by people that were in middle school when it was signed.
I never thought that I would lose seniority to someone that had the same career expectation as me, so that they can get the PIC time and interview alongside me for a position that I have been forced to wait for by outside economic and political forces. (guess this is yet to be seen, but I'm gearing up mentally for it)

Right on as usual, Murph. Right there with ya!

 

[xjhawk]

at 8 years at mesaba, I am there as well. I will also mention I never thought the majority of 9E pilots would stay quiet and allow their representation to do what they have done for the last few years. I also must say that same 9E majority has been quiet and had no voice when DOH would be better for them-but then again the staple crap that was proposed shows how they were all willing to screw most of MEsaba and all of Colgan just for their gain.

Can we expect anything this week?

 

[Smarta$$]

at 8 years at mesaba, I am there as well. I will also mention I never thought the majority of 9E pilots would stay quiet and allow their representation to do what they have done for the last few years. I also must say that same 9E majority has been quiet and had no voice when DOH would be better for them-but then again the staple crap that was proposed shows how they were all willing to screw most of MEsaba and all of Colgan just for their gain.

Can we expect anything this week?

MEM, and MEM pilots are the epicenter of everything that is wrong with this place. There are a few that reside in MSP and DTW, but they are usually transplants or are 10%'ers. It is hard to accomplish anything with so many apathetic pilots that actively work to undermine the union. They have regularly proven they would rather point the gun at the union than at the company.

As far as SLI, those same pilots mentioned above raised hell and made sure the SLI committee went very extreme in our favor. They didn't give much thought to reality or the consequences of their demands, but then again, they are not very smart.

I personally have just wanted simple DOH from the beginning, and can't WAIT for this to be over.

 

[i fly boxes]

Date of hire is fine for this 9er as well let's get on with it already

 

[jynxyjericho]

MEM, and MEM pilots are the epicenter of everything that is wrong with this place. There are a few that reside in MSP and DTW, but they are usually transplants or are 10%'ers. It is hard to accomplish anything with so many apathetic pilots that actively work to undermine the union. They have regularly proven they would rather point the gun at the union than at the company.

As far as SLI, those same pilots mentioned above raised hell and made sure the SLI committee went very extreme in our favor. They didn't give much thought to reality or the consequences of their demands, but then again, they are not very smart.

I personally have just wanted simple DOH from the beginning, and can't WAIT for this to be over.

When you talk about these guys, are these the NMFC and their minions or just a base culture in general?

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Looks as though some reason and clarity has crept into this thread...I too believe DOH would be best. I think that's the most logical conclusion for Bloch to reach, that he reached it some time ago, and that for whatever reason we will be waiting for some time to see the list. As someone (or several "someones") stated, when we vote new representation we need to send the 9E ******************************bags responsible for all of this packing.

 

[Flyer1015]

Ask your reps for a transcript, and go through it and see what Bloch has to say about DOH. That should answer your question.As for this:

vote new representation we need to send the 9E ******************************bags responsible for all of this packing.

What is --- 9E responsible for all of this ---- suppose to mean? Do you mean the SLI? As I remember, it was XJ getting ticked off at 9E for getting our class date as DOH instead of sim date, while XJ/9L got their class date. And now, they've unilaterally changed the listing position of their pilots without anyone else disputing it. XJ is the reason this SLI has stalled as long as it has, not 9E.bri5150,About the furloughees, I understand where you are coming from, and where XJ is coming from. However, you cannot list them as active pilots, based LGA as FOs on the SF340, when these pilots already show as active pilots on the 9E list flying CRJs in DTW and JFK. You cannot have it both ways. Bloch will see through this. The same name is listed twice as active, in two different bases on two different aircraft. Unless we live in the Matrix, it just isn't possible. As for what should be done about furloughees, I don't know what to tell you, except past precedent in arbitration lists has been to put them at the bottom after others. My guess is it would be active pilots, furloughees, then Summer 2010 DOH onwards. Many XJ pilots had their jobs only for a matter of months before being furloughed. Say, 6 months service in 2008 and laid off. Then started at Pinnacle in Summer 2010 and are here today. I would hardly be able to sign on the fact that they are active LGA FOs hired in 2008. It's a sucky situation, and this MOU will be a make-or-break, depending on what kind of precedent it sets.

 

[bri5150]

Ask your reps for a transcript, and go through it and see what Bloch has to say about DOH. That should answer your question.As for this:What is --- 9E responsible for all of this ---- suppose to mean? Do you mean the SLI? As I remember, it was XJ getting ticked off at 9E for getting our class date as DOH instead of sim date, while XJ/9L got their class date. And now, they've unilaterally changed the listing position of their pilots without anyone else disputing it. XJ is the reason this SLI has stalled as long as it has, not 9E.bri5150,About the furloughees, I understand where you are coming from, and where XJ is coming from. However, you cannot list them as active pilots, based LGA as FOs on the SF340, when these pilots already show as active pilots on the 9E list flying CRJs in DTW and JFK. You cannot have it both ways. Bloch will see through this. The same name is listed twice as active, in two different bases on two different aircraft. Unless we live in the Matrix, it just isn't possible. As for what should be done about furloughees, I don't know what to tell you, except past precedent in arbitration lists has been to put them at the bottom after others. My guess is it would be active pilots, furloughees, then Summer 2010 DOH onwards. Many XJ pilots had their jobs only for a matter of months before being furloughed. Say, 6 months service in 2008 and laid off. Then started at Pinnacle in Summer 2010 and are here today. I would hardly be able to sign on the fact that they are active LGA FOs hired in 2008. It's a sucky situation, and this MOU will be a make-or-break, depending on what kind of precedent it sets.

See through? There is nothing to "see through". Mr. Bloch knows exactly what is going on with these guys and will put them in place where he wants them. It's not like Mesaba is taking the stand that they weren't furloughed on 7/1. They are just saying they aren't furloughed now. How they are listed on our list right now will have no bearing on where they are on the final list if things go as we think they will. If Mr. Bloch doesn't use the "snapshot", then he should have an accurate representation of what their status is, which is recalled and bypassed. They shouldn't be treated any different than the furloughees that decided not to help Pinnacle and just took the recall (which are out of training and active in LGA I think). This MOU thing is uncharted territory, so nobody knows where they should go. You seriously need to get over the semantics of this part because it won't change anything. It's kind of like the lovely grammar argument we've been having.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Ask your reps for a transcript, and go through it and see what Bloch has to say about DOH. That should answer your question.As for this:What is --- 9E responsible for all of this ---- suppose to mean? Do you mean the SLI? As I remember, it was XJ getting ticked off at 9E for getting our class date as DOH instead of sim date, while XJ/9L got their class date. And now, they've unilaterally changed the listing position of their pilots without anyone else disputing it. XJ is the reason this SLI has stalled as long as it has, not 9E.bri5150,About the furloughees, I understand where you are coming from, and where XJ is coming from. However, you cannot list them as active pilots, based LGA as FOs on the SF340, when these pilots already show as active pilots on the 9E list flying CRJs in DTW and JFK. You cannot have it both ways. Bloch will see through this. The same name is listed twice as active, in two different bases on two different aircraft. Unless we live in the Matrix, it just isn't possible. As for what should be done about furloughees, I don't know what to tell you, except past precedent in arbitration lists has been to put them at the bottom after others. My guess is it would be active pilots, furloughees, then Summer 2010 DOH onwards. Many XJ pilots had their jobs only for a matter of months before being furloughed. Say, 6 months service in 2008 and laid off. Then started at Pinnacle in Summer 2010 and are here today. I would hardly be able to sign on the fact that they are active LGA FOs hired in 2008. It's a sucky situation, and this MOU will be a make-or-break, depending on what kind of precedent it sets.

No, I wasn't referring to the SLI as I know many on this thread have - I was more specifically referring to the history that seems to show at best, bungling incompetence in the 9E representation and at worst, an intentional "boys club" approach to how things are done in closed door meetings. If I'm wrong that will be proven out once we're all on the same property. If I'm right - well, that'll be proven too I suppose.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Upon re-reading your post Flyer, I admit that I was unclear in how I worded "all of this"...point taken. But I stand by the last reply that I made regarding bungling and boys' clubs.

 

[xjhawk]

I am lost as to what we are waiting on here. I hear that it is not Bloch's fault and that it is or was the list that 9E was suppose to give but someone was flying????? SO now we wait. Oh and about the 9E guys saying the delay is Mesaba's fault...... not true, if list is suppose to be correct and it is not, Mesaba has the right to challenge it.

 

[bri5150]

I am lost as to what we are waiting on here. I hear that it is not Bloch's fault and that it is or was the list that 9E was suppose to give but someone was flying????? SO now we wait. Oh and about the 9E guys saying the delay is Mesaba's fault...... not true, if list is suppose to be correct and it is not, Mesaba has the right to challenge it.

His award has been "ready" for two weeks now. This is getting a little dumb.